Best For STX Autocross, Series 1 or 2?
 

Hey everyone, I'm new here but not totally new to the RX8. I have been autocrossing nearly 20 years now in various cars, including some time in borrowed RX8s. I'm in the market for a newer car to daily drive & also autocross competitively with, & I am highly considering an RX8.

Sorry for the relatively dumb question, I searched for almost an hour on here but found no definitive answer. Which car is considered the best platform to build an STX car...the 04-08, or 09+ Series II cars? I have read up on the mechanical differences & I can somewhat draw my own conclusions, but it appears most STX cars are Series 1 cars & not many have experimented with an 09+. Is there a reason for that?

I'm looking for a very low mile car, which rules out most if-not-all Series 1 cars, & have my eye on an '11 Sport model with only 6K miles. Is there any reason I should skip it & wait for the right Series 1 car to come along?

Thanks in advance!

Doesn't matter, as long as it has Moton's :)

... and as long as the suspension bolts don't fall out on course ...

the definitive answer is in the results. The S2 costs more, weighs more, can't currently be performance tuned easily, and essentially has nothing to offer that would make it the superior choice

LOL ;) I hear ya...of course, the same can be said for just about any stock, ST or SP class.

OK, so it costs more...I'm OK with this in order to get a newer CPO car still under warranty & with low miles.

Weighs more? So far I have read the opposite...unless I am missing something. I can see the R3 maybe being heavier than the Series 1 sport/base models, but I would start with a Sport Series II, so is there any difinitive data saying the new models are in fact heavier?

Performance tune - I admit to know nothing about this & have not even looked into tuning options for any RX8...care to elaborate?

As far as what the Series II has to offer, I figured the suppossed lower weight & better gearing would be a good place to start. I realize those attributes are somewhat offset in C-Stock due to being saddled with heavier 19" wheels & items dictated by the R3 Package, but again that package isn't neccesary for STX.

So I guess what it comes down to is this...assuming the Series II has nothing to offer that makes it superior, is there anything that would make it "inferior"?

Thanks guys for the input!

I'm not sure who the bigger moron is here; you or me?

Go buy whatever you want then and stop starting stupid threads asking questions and then proceeding to tell everyone who knows more about it than you they're wrong.

Wow!! I think you toally got the wrong idea Mark (yes I know who you are, I don't think we have ever met, but we have mutual friends).

I completely apologize as you took what I said totally wrong, I truly am asking for more info as I know you guys are the experts, but regardless there is no reason to respond that way. I NEVER said you or anyone was wrong, I was just pointing out I had read differently. If you care to take any more of your precious time to help someone, it really would be appreciated. However, if you think I am just some stupid noob starting a worthless thread, then I won't bother you again.

In almost 10 years on multiple forums, I have never been "welcomed" like that before...

Honestly I think either can be prepped to win. The series 1 base model will be the lightest of them all. I have the GT with the sunroof and the car weighs around 2835 with 1/4 of gas. Mark has his down to around 2700lbs, which is amazing.

Just pick whatever car fits your budget and start from there. I would go for a series 1 as you will have a lot of money left over for fine tuning your car to be an STX machine.

Fixed it for you :)


Simmons

I think he just gets off on being a total dickhead to anyone he can whenever possible from what I've read on here. Which would fit in on say, Corner-Carvers...

I read this section & the local section about once a day on average, and see a response like that out of that dude at least once a week if not more often. I can understand some of them, as some responses really are aimed at noobs that could've figured it out by searching or whatever, but even then those are still over the top with dickishness. Then you have this one where you're trying to open up a line of discourse to figure out what data points are out there and work from there. No reason to be a dick on that one imho.

No offense...?

I welcomed him with my opinion of 7 years of RX8 experience on the subject, and his reply is not what I expect from somebody new here looking for advice either. So he has his expectations and I have mine.

As for being a dickhead, go take a good long look in the mirror. As usual, everyone else always believes their feelings and opinion trump all others. Furthermore, I am not some welcomer at Wal-RX8Club-mart. This is a social forum and I'm not sure where you get off believing it's ok to say whatever you want and then berate me over the same thing.

.

The most important thing you need to win any autocross class is the nut that goes between the seat and the steering wheel.

you win

Perhaps this thread is relevant to the question: https://www.rx8club.com/purchasing-financing-insurance-56/spec-decks-color-charts-pricing-each-year-2005-2011-a-200591/

Wikipedia lists the 2004 lowest OEM curb weight at 2,888lbs, which seems right from prior discussions. I haven't been able to find something to prove this yet.

2005 lowest OEM curb weight listed at 3,029lbs (but also listed as "minimum w/ popular options", and pulled from the 2006 spec deck which is labeled as "not yet updated")

2007 lowest OEM curb weight listed at 3,075lbs (no comment added, but reasonable to assume that it has the same context as the above comment)

2009 lowest OEM curb weight listed at 3,064lbs

2010 lowest OEM curb weight listed at 3,065lbs

look no further than the Stock class results where some S2 owners thought they were going to ride in and round up the entire herd

while they do get to level the wheel and tire playing field in STX the gearing difference is still not enough to matter in light of the other disadvantages

wikipedia is just a bunch of select opinions, 2004/2005 Base S1s could get down to near 2800# in Stock class trim, I have never seen an S2 model get anywhere near this with the same mods


.

Agreed on Wiki. I take it's info with a deer-grade salt lick.

Id say if your racing skill is at a level where a hundred pounds makes the difference from a win to a loss consistently, then you wouldn't be asking these questions. I suggest getting any 8 that is a good price, was well maintained and is stock so you can modify it as you see fit.

it's not to even say that an RX8 is *the* car to have in STX ...

Thank you for sticking up for me...I think ;) Sounds like this isn't the first rodeo for you two though...

Mark, again my apologies for offending you & your knowledge. Yes, you were less than friendly to me, & I have seen similar posts from you on other sites as well, but as I said before you took it wrong....period. However, I DO appreciate your input, as well as everyone else on here.
In this case, I agree 100% with Mark...You win! This is the most important aspect no doubt... although I have had my successes over the years, I still have much to learn.
I have had National level success in cars considered heavy & under-powered in the past, but in this case no use spotting my competitors 100 lbs if I don't have to. Mark's car being 2700 lbs IS amazing, I agree that getting a Series 2 that light seems like a lofty goal...even though Mazda claims it is a lighter car.
Yes it is...For someone who like to talk smack, you sure lack confidence in the RX8's STX superiority ;-)

In all seriousness, thank you to all who have taken the time to discuss the subject. Take it from an outsider BMW owner...The RX8 has all the right ingredients to dominate STX. If only it got better gas mileage for daily driving...

This thread might explain some of the weight differences between SI and SII: https://www.rx8club.com/series-ii-technical-trouble-shooting-160/mechanical-changes-rx-8-series-i-ii-161665/

I have not researched this in any detail, but my understanding is that the SII bare chassis and the updated SII transmission both gained weight. Don't hold me to that, though. I have not personally weighed either.

One person has a pattern
One person does not

But point taken, would probably be wise for everyone to take a step back and think about how what they type would be recieved and also realise that if this really is a social forum centered around a certain car then maybe we should all act a little more friendly... what's it going to hurt? Edit - or is this what you say / how you act in person at work, or at home, or out at an event?

No, you need not be super walmart greeter but no need to be at the far opposite end of the spectrum either.



And to the OP, no history yet. Just read enough to get fed up with that going on and no one else saying anything about it. Ah well....

I don't know if you're just mentally challenged or what, but finding people to stand around slapping each other on the back saying what the other wants to hear is no problem in life. My pattern is that I don't tolerate BS, people who ask a question only intending to get the answer they want to hear, or holding back my opinion in general. Whether you recognize it or not I am just as capable of giving you the shirt off my back along with my last red cent as I am to tell you what a whining, mealy mouth moron you are acting like. He doesn't any more know who I am and what I am about than you do, so spare us your self righteous, flagellating BS already.

Additionally, the only person talking smack is yourself. The 15 minutes of attention are up already.


.

The thing is that the OP didn't say you were wrong, Mark. He only said that he had gotten conflicting information. That's not what he "wants to hear"; it's simply not taking as gospel the assertion of someone on the internet.

You said the S1 is lighter, and didn't provide any other info; he said he had seen information that indicated otherwise, but perhaps there was other information he didn't have. Your immediate response was to call him a moron. :dunno:

It is not a direct comparison, trim levels changed from S1 to S2, which is why the data you have collected on weights in inaccurate. A base S1 will be lighter every time - unless you back-dated (not legal in stock or ST) an S2 to the lighter S1 trans, and pulled all the other bits that were optional on the S1 and standard on the S2.

The S2 is geared pretty short... Our top GPS speed (2nd gear) for our 2005 (in stock class trim) was 62.7mph, and we were in the limiter all the time, I think shorter gears would have hurt. In STX you can bump the limiter, but as others have mentioned there are tuning challenges with the S2.

Just find an S1 that still has engine warranty, don't worry about the rest, and you will be money ahead.

^^^This! Thank you Jason, all of that makes total sense, that is the kind of info I was looking for in the beginning. That being said, I will keep looking for a nice low mile S1.

Thanks to all who took the time to contribute to my somewhat "moronic" questions (as some would claim ;)). I did not intend to stir up a debate like what has happened in this thread, but hopefully some good will come from it for present & future RX8 owners wanting to compete in STX.

You guys know I still have a soft spot for the '8 and like to check in here once in awhile...and what do I find? A little bit of a fracas with two of my good autocross pals at the center (coincidentally both named "Mark")...

Anyhow, you guys should know that race2win (Mark Scroggs) is not only a super talented driver (his "resume" is only limited by not being able to hit all the big events and Nationals the last few years), but is also a truly good human being...as is TeamRX8, the other Mark, who may be pretty abrupt or harsh on a forum, but will give you the shirt off his back, if you need it.

Now, everyone make up, hold hands and sing Cumbaya, ok? :kiss:

btw, I agree with Isley, get the best series I you can find.