Almost got my car wrecked at Pocono Raceway.
 

Saturday I went to Pocono Raceway for a HPDE on the EAST Course, It’s a short course LINK mostly made up of the infield roads of the speedway. The staging area is next to section of straight with no barrier between the track and the cars waiting to get onto the track (see map it’s the red line). I was waiting on the grid; in a line of about 20 cars, I was about the 10th car from the front when I saw an Evo VII that was running on the track lose control on the straight, run off the track at around 90 mph and hit the first two cars on the grid. They were a G35 and an Acura NSX late 90’s vintage. My guess is the Evo and the NSX are totaled and the G35 looks like it could be fixed (T-Boned type damage)
Needless to say if that Evo lost it a bit earlier it could have hit me. I will not drive on the east course of Pocono till they either put up a barrier or change the staging set up. I would also suggest anyone that does track days or auto-ex to not run on tracks where people or cars are near a “ hot “ track without protection from cars going off course. Nobody was hurt which was a lucky thing; people do tend to mill around the grid. I also don’t know how the cars involved will report this to their insurance. Well the next two days I will be at Watkins Glenn where cars and people are not exposed to that risk.

Damn, thats pretty scary. Glad to hear everyone was was ok though.

Hindsight is great, but these people should know better than to let anybody near an unprotected hot track. Shame on them!

Glad to hear every one is ok.

on-track In-car video posted from another forum 2 cars behind.

http://videos.streetfire.net/video/D...7B82294422.htm

Whoops poor G

wow, that was really poor foresight to have those cars so close to the track ... :spank:

Who was running that HPDE? So I Never ever ever sign up for an event with them.

Yup, that was a pretty stupid layout... and the music in the clip was even worse.

-hS

Damn that's bad! :tear: It's one thing to have no barrier when it's a relatively slow speed like autocross; but what DUMBASS organized it so that the staging area was right next to a high-speed track?!? Even in autocross I've never seen cars parked that close! So much runoff room too! Somebody needs a good smack in the back of the head.

And at the end of that video, what's with the chick grabbing the guy's steering wheel??? I'd have slapped her hand away for doing that, instructor or not.
:nono:

That was a PDA event. Pocono East WAS the only course where that could have happend. The track also has some blame as that is were they want you to stage. But the club could have said no. I have been driving with PDA since 2004 and like them and have not seen a wreck even close to that. Looking at that video ( you can see me on the grid ) The Evo went off track left then over corrected too much. I do think the east track is not a good one for high HP cars but they still sign up for it. I however will not drive on Pocono East again, I need to be able to drive home.

Yikes...glad no one was hurt.

Bad layout...track and PDA were wrong, IMO.

Wonder what the guy's insurance co. will say about this...

That was horrible. Pure stupidity,

Is it wrong that I got some enjoyment out of watching that? :dunno:

NSX's are works of art ( IMO ) seeing one totaled is a sad thing.

The reason I went to Pocono East in the first place was as a " ShakeDown " for Watkins Glenn Mon & Tue. The thread below contains video from that track that you might enjoy more.

https://www.rx8club.com/rx-8-racing-25/couple-laps-glenn-89534/

not so fast. read and learn. :nono: the instructor was trying to get him back on track and into the pits. the music was inserted to cover what the instructor said.

if it comes to the point when an instructor needs to grab the wheel, you need to either take it down a notch, or acquire some skills :D

When the EVO driver had two wheels off track, the driver reacted poorly and went into an oversteer situation to get back on the track, then it seems the oversteer was not countered correctly by looking down track and turning into the oversteer. Is that what you guys see?

The guy driving that Audi was a total dumbass. If I was the instructor I would have banned him from coming to anymore trackdays put on by that organization.

Give a rip. An instructor can give feedback, instructions, orders, yell & scream bloody murder or order me off the track... but grab my steering wheel and I'll throw you out and get another instructor.
:slap:

Very interesting to read the thread where the instructor was able to defend herself.

Whats sad is...
How incredibly stupid some drivers can be
Wanting to videotape your friends "cool wreck"
and
Overdriving your car the entire day.

I always try to encourage people to get on the track so they can learn how to handle their cars in a safe manner, but after seeing all this its clear that some peoples egos are too large to be on a track. They'ld be better off at home drifitng into light poles and hopefully only killing themselves.

-hS

so after an accident if you drive off track to continue filming your buddy's crash exacerbating an already unsafe situation and the instructor tries to get you back on track and into the pits by pointing the steering wheel back on track and you stubbornly refuse... who's the ass in that scenario? :spank: instuctors have your safety and their safety in mind and aren't concerned about your pride.

Slowing down, remaining in the track and going to the pits is the right thing to do. An instructor informing a student what the proper proceedure is would be correct. But a passenger, restrained by safety belts, reaching over to grab the steering wheel is creating an additional unsafe condition. A passenger can not control a car safely at any speed or road surface, let alone on possibly rutted grass.

this is amazing! the guy put the intructors live and some others at risk and your sayng the intructor is wrong for reaching the steering wheel ?

i agree save for the fact that the audi driver had come to a full stop. he refused to get on track to the left to go around the accident or to go right into the pits. he was engaging in rubber-necking of the worst sort regardless of the hazardous safety conditions he had put his car in front of. the instructor pointed his steering wheel with a mind to get them out of harm's way.

Nope, you're making wrong assumptions about my meaning (read the posts again). The guy driving off track to film his buddy was clearly in the wrong. The instructor telling him to get back on track and return to the pits was obviously correct in doing so. But grabbing the steering wheel is out.

Agreed. That is the point I was trying to make.

telling the driver and instructor's family that pointing the steering wheel is out would probably be small comfort if someone had crashed into them having target fixated on the accident since they were in harm's way. :banghead: what should the instructor have done then in your opinion? the audi driver was a stubborn mule who didn't listen to any of her instructions.

Yeah, I already watched that.

I had a friend with a 2000 NSX, that nice blue. He always said that car brought out the devil in him. He wrecked it on slick road and when it was at the body shop, you know those tags they put on your rear view mirror w/ a number? Well, it was kind of weird, but his was 666.
They stopped counting the damage at $30k in the front end, and the rear was wrecked worse.

I like the NSX a lot, but they, like most every other car, are just a car.

You're 100% correct. The instructor was absolutely doing the correct thing. They were about to be parked in exactly the most dangerous place to be at that moment.

In most circumstances I would not want an instructor grabbing the steering wheel but in this case she was 100% in the right.

Especially after reading her side on Elisetalk.

Apparently, IFLYSOLO (the driver of the Audi doing the filming) went to the Glen last Monday. The story I heard is that after driving recklessly, he refused an instructor. He was given the choice of having an instructor or going home. He chose to go home.
From afar, this guy is an idiot. In his own video he shows poor driving skill (dropping 2 tires off the track and barely saving it) and terrible judgement (stopping to film an accident). If I was an instructor, not only would I hold the steering wheel to direct him away from the accident, but I would later reach over and take out his key from the ignition and hand them over to the chief instructor.

Looks like PCA has banned the guy from future events. Watch out for a red S4 if you are at a track day with someone else in that area.

yep i was the guy on AW who reported on IFLYSOLO's insanity in the b6 s4 forum from a writeup a friend of mine, who was at the glen on 5/8/2006, posted to a mailing list i'm on. i've actually met IFLYSOLO at philly region autox's and it's obvious at the outset upon meeting him he's a bit touched in the head.

* IFLYSOLO gets kicked out out the glen
* IFLYSOLO's reckless race incidents at the glen

Hmm, I'm moving down to the philly area and will be autocrossing with the philly scca. If I see that guy there, its going to take all my willpower not to kick him in the groin hard enough to prevent any possibility of breeding.

I somewhat retract my previous comment of never ever ever running with that club. I still think the staging area needs to be better planned, but based on what i've read on the other forums, the moron evo driver and his idiot friend with the camera are more to blame.

You guys, cars go off the track all the time at these events. You go to a trackday to learn your car, sometimes it takes a few off road excursions to figure it out. It's really that simple. The evo made a simple mistake, guess what, that happens, on a normal track he woudl have just ended up with a dirty car and a funny story, the real problem lies with people and their cars sitting 10ft off the damn track. That's just ridiculous.

If this guy was driving like an asshat all day, i would have hoped the organizers would have booted him, they didn't. Another mistake.

I think because of this incident, clubs are going to be more strict on banning wreckless drivers. How many people go to these events and openly ignore the instructors? Not many. Yes the club should have banned them, yes the staging area should have been better. But I can't blame the club too much, when people are told to behave at a driving event, 99.9% of the time I think they do.

BTW, this is hillarious. http://www.petitiononline.com/b6s4/petition.html Pettition to ban the guy in the camera car from tracks. Apparently he goes around bragging about his driving "skillz" on the audi forums and then posts videos of him almost losing control to show how good he is. He is obviously "2fast 2furious".

I've gone off track before and i wasn't being reckless just made a mistake. Those cars really should not have been there.

True that cars go off track at events. Doesn't mean that a repeat offender should be encouraged to sharpen his/her skills. For those people, other sports beckon for their own sake and the safety of other participants, instructors and corner workers. IFLYSOLO has demonstrated recklessness repeatedly. Additionally he is not there to learn since he has been refusing instruction. Even pro drivers hire driving coaches.

cleoent - You clearly don't get the seriousness of this incident and the potential for danger. Part of learning your car is reading conditions including the proximity of other cars both driving and parked regardless of whether they should be there or not.

I'm not saying going off track is wreckless, don't get me wrong it happens. This guy WAS being wreckless, its a known fact. The point is, that staging area, while risky, was relatively low risk. Almost no chance for someone to go off there unless they were driving beyond the limit and overcorrected trying to save a slide instead of two footing it and bringing it to a controlled stop (the evo driver thought he was a hero).

Here's the difference, the evo driver had been blacked flagged twice in the day for spinning and didn't correct his driving habits. For some reason the club let him solo, he slipped through the cracks which is regrettible.

My first HPDE was with a club that has to APPROVE you, in your log book, to solo before you can do so. I spun at one point, but I brought the car to a stop safetly. That event and my driving throughout the day sufficiently showed to my instructor that I had "good car control skills" (his words) and he rated me excellent in my understanding of safety.

My point is, you can spin and still be a good, safe driver. This guy clearly was not. I hope the club will change their policies a bit because of this, but it doesn't seem to be *as much* their fault as I previously thought.

This is a pretty serious manner. Obviously, he should have been booted way before it came to this, everyone is in agreement to that, why wasn't he is a good question.

I'm sure that guy in the evo didn't intend to plow off the side of the road and smash into cars, he just made a mistake, if he had a habit of making mistakes he shoudl have been booted. The cars being where they were IS NOT SAFE. That's like putting a kid in the middle of the freeway and saying people should have known not to drive fast there because the kid was there. Bullshit, it's a track, adrenaline is pumping, if this guy couldn't control his car HE SHOULD HAVE BEEN GONE.

Cars shouldn't have been there, and by some peoples account the driver shouldn't have been there, that's two strikes against the trackday organizers.

I know of no other trackday organizer in the US that would allow a car to be black flagged TWICE for the same behavior and allowed back on the track.

The evo guy fucked up, he didn't know any better, but the trackday organizers should have known better and this situation should never have happened.

I agree with you on the surface of it, but based on many positive comments about that organization on other forums, I want to give them the benefit of the doubt. We don't know the whole story.

Perhaps it was just one instructor that made a bad judgement call? I'm not quite sure we can blame the whole club, but I would like to hear more from someone with first hand experiance with them.

yikes

Going through my camera I found a photo of that NSX before the wreck R.I.P :sadwavey:

This accident is getting a lot of posts on many boards. The end result will be safer HPDE days, which is a good thing. The funny thing is I was at Pocono that day and the Glenn Monday & Tuesday and I didn’t see any of that drama. I guess I just mind my own business and take care of my 8.
Having started driving with PDA a couple months after getting my 8 LINK let me go over how they handled me. My very first day the instructor did the first two laps driving my car (not at full speed) I assume he did this to see if anything was wrong with my car before he put his life in my hands. After we switched the things they re-enforced was being aware of the corner workers, what the flags meant, checking your mirrors & gauges on straights. Taking the proper lines on turns, what to do if you go off track, do I give point by’s. During driver meetings am I paying attention. Do I ask questions or just shut up. The instructor also had me go for rides in his car so I can pick up the lines while not worrying about crashing my car.
Another main point was doing everything SMOOTHLY. There is no need to pop the clutch, shift in .1 sec mash the brakes. All driver inputs should be smooth. I might have missed something but after my third event with PDA I went to pick up the Instructor for a run and he said “ you don’t need me anymore “ and left me do the last run solo. So the overall way I carried myself, driver and track courtesy as well as my driving let them turn me loose relative quickly. Maybe also being in my late 30’s and I go alone also helped to.