Alignment settings for street/track use
07-12-2010, 03:49 PM
#276
Hot Pit
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Castro Valley, CA
Posts: 658
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
, you should tell us what to do with our suspension and alignment setting, that's what the GT-R did. They go to Nurburgring to test out their suspension and alignment for heir factory setting.
07-12-2010, 06:57 PM
#278
New Member
Hmmm
I am a fan of rear toe in, quite aggressively too. I have total of 4 mm rear toe in even on the old days of the car being a daily. It brings the rear back very well even when the car is thinking of understeering. As our cars are lack of power, you really need to power out early.... Or racing on race track anyway.
Minus toe in the front. In Australia that means toe in. I prefer 0 or 1mm toe out. We do everything upside down theree I suppose. +1mm here.
I am a fan of rear toe in, quite aggressively too. I have total of 4 mm rear toe in even on the old days of the car being a daily. It brings the rear back very well even when the car is thinking of understeering. As our cars are lack of power, you really need to power out early.... Or racing on race track anyway.
Minus toe in the front. In Australia that means toe in. I prefer 0 or 1mm toe out. We do everything upside down theree I suppose. +1mm here.
07-13-2010, 07:27 AM
#279
Momentum Keeps Me Going
front camber -2.00 < wear is normal using this
toe +3/32" < helps turn-in and powering around corners
rear camber -2.15 < same as front, no strange wear
toe 0 < neither helps nor hinders rotation, it's up to me
07-13-2010, 11:12 AM
#280
Hot Pit
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Castro Valley, CA
Posts: 658
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
-2 degree without uneven wear, you either deliver tofu through a mountain or a instructor at a track....lol
07-13-2010, 03:02 PM
#281
Momentum Keeps Me Going
? Since May07 I had -1.6 fr/2 r, but needed more so Sep09 got the 2fr/2.1r. It's better with my r-comps, but I want moooorrrrr 
'cause I'm still wearing the outside a bit too much, but not as bad as before. Street tires thou, I swear, are straight/flat wear. It's the toe that kills tires not so much the camber. Think what toe looks like to the pavement - yea - you got it - tire belt sander 
07-14-2010, 11:59 AM
#283
oem shocks on aftermarket springs are a problem blackenwings?
rear end will get squirrely on hard braking (and worse when you go to r compounds).
traction can be an issue when a car is under dampered?
I have ran all kinds of settings for the track, various chamber, camber, and toe. Various size tires. To tell you the truth i cant tell much of a difference between a -1.5 versus a -1.8
versus a -2. Turn in , mid, exit or braking.
Toe end i could tell a little on turn in. Zero toe is harder to drive on the street however--wants to wander more.
A good quality alignment + good tires with the right air pressures and proper suspension will do much more than various setting changes.
Dont chase settings on the RX8 when it is only used for a weekend warrior/DD.
my 2 cents
i am running -1.5 all the way around and have been for some time.
Just my 2 cents.
rear end will get squirrely on hard braking (and worse when you go to r compounds).
traction can be an issue when a car is under dampered?
I have ran all kinds of settings for the track, various chamber, camber, and toe. Various size tires. To tell you the truth i cant tell much of a difference between a -1.5 versus a -1.8
versus a -2. Turn in , mid, exit or braking.
Toe end i could tell a little on turn in. Zero toe is harder to drive on the street however--wants to wander more.
A good quality alignment + good tires with the right air pressures and proper suspension will do much more than various setting changes.
Dont chase settings on the RX8 when it is only used for a weekend warrior/DD.
my 2 cents
i am running -1.5 all the way around and have been for some time.
Just my 2 cents.
07-23-2010, 01:42 PM
#284
Filth in a world of Clean
iTrader: (2)
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Somewhere in 3rd gear
Posts: 517
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I've had these settings for a while couple of months now, very close to the OP's. Stock coils/springs. I haven't been to the track or Auto-x yet, but have hit the nearby twisties a few times and have be pleased so far.
Camber: RF -1 5/8 LF -1 5/8 RR -1 1/4 RR -1 1/4
Caster: RF 7 1/4 LF 6 3/4
Front Toe: 1/8 in
Rear Toe: 1/4 out
The shop I go to does everything the old fashined way, with hand tools so that is why all the fractions, guess I could of converted them, but oh well.
Prepaing for a honeymoon roadtrip through Deals gap and Moonshiners 28, next month.
Any thoughts?
Camber: RF -1 5/8 LF -1 5/8 RR -1 1/4 RR -1 1/4
Caster: RF 7 1/4 LF 6 3/4
Front Toe: 1/8 in
Rear Toe: 1/4 out
The shop I go to does everything the old fashined way, with hand tools so that is why all the fractions, guess I could of converted them, but oh well.
Prepaing for a honeymoon roadtrip through Deals gap and Moonshiners 28, next month.
Any thoughts?
Last edited by Dirt_Nasty; 07-23-2010 at 01:44 PM.
07-29-2010, 09:05 AM
#286
Registered User
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 87
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Tks.
07-29-2010, 03:39 PM
#287
New Member
1/4 of an inch is each rear tyre or total? Even 1/2 inch total or 1mm toe in is ok. Well I don't do a lot of miles. My 2003 rx8 has only done 60000km only. Mostly on track. But when it was my daily I had it with my Michelin PS2 and it will last 30000km on 4mm total toe out.
For sure on street only car I will put the front zero toe. It is just nicer to drive, just lighter feel and more responsive and the speed on road will never need aggressive set up. 0.2 of sec is not important @ each street corner.
My 2 cent
For sure on street only car I will put the front zero toe. It is just nicer to drive, just lighter feel and more responsive and the speed on road will never need aggressive set up. 0.2 of sec is not important @ each street corner.
My 2 cent
07-29-2010, 06:03 PM
#288
Filth in a world of Clean
iTrader: (2)
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Somewhere in 3rd gear
Posts: 517
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
^Total, not in each. I plan on zeroing out the toe when I get back from my honeymoon road trip (~1200 miles of twiwties, and 800 of highway,much of which is through VA and WV, so I don't think those count, ha).
10-06-2010, 04:26 AM
#291
Relax baby!
iTrader: (3)
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Nurburgring driver, Germany
Posts: 1,006
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
, i went to do a aligment and to my surprice they were no neccesary adjudments, this are the numbers i been running since i installed my suspension with 18 laps at the ring in germany
any thoughts
front camber - 1.50 -1.44
rear camber - 2.18 -2.24
front caster 7.05 7.08
any thoughts
front camber - 1.50 -1.44
rear camber - 2.18 -2.24
front caster 7.05 7.08
10-06-2010, 10:19 AM
#292
That camber looks good on paper, but I'm running about that, and tracking at the limit, I think I want the rear to rotate better.
So in a few months I'm going to set camber -1.6f/-1.0r, and see if that's better.
So in a few months I'm going to set camber -1.6f/-1.0r, and see if that's better.
10-06-2010, 12:15 PM
#293
redrx3rx8,
I am only a few tenths off the rx8speciale numbers with my current setup. Only had it for a few weeks, does feel weird, like the car rotates and sets, but the back stays tucked in. Track is in early November. Is your car feeling strange, is it impacting your track times? I am trying to figure out if I should back a degree of negative out of the rear. Problem is that I did new tires (grippy Hankook V12) and the alignment at the same time. I am not sure what is tires and what is alignment. I asked for -1 in the front, and stock in rear, they seem to have misunderstood....
I am only a few tenths off the rx8speciale numbers with my current setup. Only had it for a few weeks, does feel weird, like the car rotates and sets, but the back stays tucked in. Track is in early November. Is your car feeling strange, is it impacting your track times? I am trying to figure out if I should back a degree of negative out of the rear. Problem is that I did new tires (grippy Hankook V12) and the alignment at the same time. I am not sure what is tires and what is alignment. I asked for -1 in the front, and stock in rear, they seem to have misunderstood....
Last edited by 04Green; 10-06-2010 at 12:37 PM.
10-07-2010, 04:10 AM
#294
04Green,
My "new" RX8 came with 625 miles, and a set of Kumho SPT's which is a good starter tire for track. I knew it was understeering first track day, but it was about the 3rd track day before I realized that I couldn't cure it with air pressure or driving smoother. I ran 40psi f, and 32psi r, and got the rear to jump around some, but still no cigar. So I took it to alignment shop that would let me "help". In other words, I needed the info of where the alignment was to know where I wanted to go. It was at -.5f/ -2.2lr, -1.9rr, so we got all we could up front -1.6, and -1.9 rear. Tracked on that twice, but still understeers.
Next step was shortening rear sway bar links about 1 1/2 inches, and the rear is tighter. Also, I put 2 - 225/40r18 Hankook v12's on the front to test the v12's versus the SPT's. I have 2 track days coming up so I think it'll rotate now. But then, the rears will need 2 - V12's, and I have s-teins, and bilsteins to firm up the back.
Ok, last step after all that is to re-align at about -1.6f/ -1.0 rear. I think other track guys have said about half a degree more negative on the front than on the back. If you look at cars on the street that have independent rear suspension, you can tell that the rear wheels have more neg camber which keeps it straight for the average driver. I tuned my RX3 to be twitchy which is what I liked, and it was very stable, not Porsche twitchy.
I don't time myself, but I know I can get better handling out of it, and I'm thrown in with a lot of faster cars that have to slow a lot on the corners, and make up the difference with shear power. I leave the traction control on, and I can catch a few by late braking "on stock brakes". I want the satisfaction of not slowing any of those fast cars down on the corners.
My "new" RX8 came with 625 miles, and a set of Kumho SPT's which is a good starter tire for track. I knew it was understeering first track day, but it was about the 3rd track day before I realized that I couldn't cure it with air pressure or driving smoother. I ran 40psi f, and 32psi r, and got the rear to jump around some, but still no cigar. So I took it to alignment shop that would let me "help". In other words, I needed the info of where the alignment was to know where I wanted to go. It was at -.5f/ -2.2lr, -1.9rr, so we got all we could up front -1.6, and -1.9 rear. Tracked on that twice, but still understeers.
Next step was shortening rear sway bar links about 1 1/2 inches, and the rear is tighter. Also, I put 2 - 225/40r18 Hankook v12's on the front to test the v12's versus the SPT's. I have 2 track days coming up so I think it'll rotate now. But then, the rears will need 2 - V12's, and I have s-teins, and bilsteins to firm up the back.
Ok, last step after all that is to re-align at about -1.6f/ -1.0 rear. I think other track guys have said about half a degree more negative on the front than on the back. If you look at cars on the street that have independent rear suspension, you can tell that the rear wheels have more neg camber which keeps it straight for the average driver. I tuned my RX3 to be twitchy which is what I liked, and it was very stable, not Porsche twitchy.
I don't time myself, but I know I can get better handling out of it, and I'm thrown in with a lot of faster cars that have to slow a lot on the corners, and make up the difference with shear power. I leave the traction control on, and I can catch a few by late braking "on stock brakes". I want the satisfaction of not slowing any of those fast cars down on the corners.
Last edited by REDRX3RX8; 10-07-2010 at 04:17 AM. Reason: more info
10-07-2010, 10:40 AM
#295
Thanks Loads!
I have Tien-H, and Tokico D-Spec. With the shorter drop, I think all they got was -1 up front They got -2 in the back. It was stock all the way around before. I destroyed a G-Force Sport a few weeks ago on the front, it did not under-steer, I just ground off the outside tread of the tire.
I think I am heading back to the shop for the half less negative on the back you mentioned above. With the V-12 I cannot generate a good test on the street without going way too fast for street comfort. The standard play corners are now at least 10 MPH faster.
Also, I am still trying to figure out what to listen for on the V-12. They are awful quiet, no whine. I do not want to push without a huge runoff and there just are no places here to safely test at any reasonable speed.
If you decide to do brakes, I really like my HPS pads. They are OK in the cold so far. The stock ones did not fare well at Roebling (really odd smells). I also went with super blue for the fluid. Made a huge difference.
thanks,
Mike
I have Tien-H, and Tokico D-Spec. With the shorter drop, I think all they got was -1 up front They got -2 in the back. It was stock all the way around before. I destroyed a G-Force Sport a few weeks ago on the front, it did not under-steer, I just ground off the outside tread of the tire.
I think I am heading back to the shop for the half less negative on the back you mentioned above. With the V-12 I cannot generate a good test on the street without going way too fast for street comfort. The standard play corners are now at least 10 MPH faster.
Also, I am still trying to figure out what to listen for on the V-12. They are awful quiet, no whine. I do not want to push without a huge runoff and there just are no places here to safely test at any reasonable speed.
If you decide to do brakes, I really like my HPS pads. They are OK in the cold so far. The stock ones did not fare well at Roebling (really odd smells). I also went with super blue for the fluid. Made a huge difference.
thanks,
Mike
10-07-2010, 01:49 PM
#296
Ha! I love that brake smell!
My first track day was about 1 year and 7k miles after I got my 8. I was babying my car, and never even braked hard enough to bed the brakes. Some big girl was my instructor, and she had a hard-on for braking to the limit.
Anyway they were a gassing like a burned up clutch, and I don't get any more smells 2 1/2 years and now 20k miles.
The pads have no noticeable wear, and I could chirp the front SPT's when slowing from 96mph. I don't see why I'll be changing pads very soon, and I track 4 times a year. Maybe the pads stay good because I don't do any stop and go out here in West Texas.
My first track day was about 1 year and 7k miles after I got my 8. I was babying my car, and never even braked hard enough to bed the brakes. Some big girl was my instructor, and she had a hard-on for braking to the limit.
Anyway they were a gassing like a burned up clutch, and I don't get any more smells 2 1/2 years and now 20k miles.
The pads have no noticeable wear, and I could chirp the front SPT's when slowing from 96mph. I don't see why I'll be changing pads very soon, and I track 4 times a year. Maybe the pads stay good because I don't do any stop and go out here in West Texas.
10-07-2010, 01:54 PM
#297
Brake smell is not bad, what these were doing was.. Smelled more like a muck fire.. Stock brakes are great. I have an 04, so mine were pretty old too. I also developed a desire for lots of brakes when I almost collected an M3 that turned around on the track to go back through a missed apex. You can get both feet on the brake pedal while screaming....
I am still not in ABS, but plan to investigate that area next time, if only the little VW thingies will get out of the way.....
I am still not in ABS, but plan to investigate that area next time, if only the little VW thingies will get out of the way.....
10-07-2010, 02:23 PM
#298
What do you mean ABS? Your 8 have traction, stability, abs? Ok, maybe you mean it doesn't kick in. If I drive right mine doesn't kick in either.
I don't turn mine off, and it saved me from going off 2 or 3 times. Nobody can brake one wheel at a time to save skid.
Yeah, people spinning in front are about the biggest hazzard, Just watch them close and stay back some. I've tracked with a lot of EVO's; they have AWD, 293 hp, and like to spin when braking hard.
So, on your alignment, try to get this: all camber you can in front or about -1.6, -1.0 or -1.1 in rear, and zero toe front and back. the tolerance on toe would be slight toe out in front, slight toe in in back.
I don't turn mine off, and it saved me from going off 2 or 3 times. Nobody can brake one wheel at a time to save skid.
Yeah, people spinning in front are about the biggest hazzard, Just watch them close and stay back some. I've tracked with a lot of EVO's; they have AWD, 293 hp, and like to spin when braking hard.
So, on your alignment, try to get this: all camber you can in front or about -1.6, -1.0 or -1.1 in rear, and zero toe front and back. the tolerance on toe would be slight toe out in front, slight toe in in back.
Last edited by REDRX3RX8; 10-07-2010 at 02:30 PM. Reason: sp
10-22-2010, 12:37 PM
#299
Registered User
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 87
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Definetly, for racing purpose, toe in/out are very important for maximazing suspension and cornering. Zero toe in the back is more usual in front-wheel drive cars, not meaning that it can't be done in rear-wheel cars. Front toe is a must. 1/4 or 1/8 are normally used in front -wheel cars. Those kind of toes for a daily driven car is not recommended.
Another thing that worries me in this thread is that a lot of people are talking about settings and their experience but, I havn't seen a lot info about tire temp and air preassure that justifies the claims. This two meassurements are the backbone of suspension setting. I could think that the car is handling great but, without tire temps/preassure, I can't maximaize what I have or really know what's going on.
Also, there is a difference between using normal air or nitrogen, and different compound/make tires.
My suggestion is, whatever suspension mod you will do and how much $$$ you will spend, put appart a little amount for a good pyrometer and tire preassure gauge and then you will get a real feel for your settings.
Thanks
Another thing that worries me in this thread is that a lot of people are talking about settings and their experience but, I havn't seen a lot info about tire temp and air preassure that justifies the claims. This two meassurements are the backbone of suspension setting. I could think that the car is handling great but, without tire temps/preassure, I can't maximaize what I have or really know what's going on.
Also, there is a difference between using normal air or nitrogen, and different compound/make tires.
My suggestion is, whatever suspension mod you will do and how much $$$ you will spend, put appart a little amount for a good pyrometer and tire preassure gauge and then you will get a real feel for your settings.
Thanks
11-01-2010, 08:30 AM
#300
Rotor User
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Sweden
Posts: 838
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Definetly, for racing purpose, toe in/out are very important for maximazing suspension and cornering. Zero toe in the back is more usual in front-wheel drive cars, not meaning that it can't be done in rear-wheel cars. Front toe is a must. 1/4 or 1/8 are normally used in front -wheel cars. Those kind of toes for a daily driven car is not recommended.
Another thing that worries me in this thread is that a lot of people are talking about settings and their experience but, I havn't seen a lot info about tire temp and air preassure that justifies the claims. This two meassurements are the backbone of suspension setting. I could think that the car is handling great but, without tire temps/preassure, I can't maximaize what I have or really know what's going on.
Also, there is a difference between using normal air or nitrogen, and different compound/make tires.
My suggestion is, whatever suspension mod you will do and how much $$$ you will spend, put appart a little amount for a good pyrometer and tire preassure gauge and then you will get a real feel for your settings.
Thanks
Another thing that worries me in this thread is that a lot of people are talking about settings and their experience but, I havn't seen a lot info about tire temp and air preassure that justifies the claims. This two meassurements are the backbone of suspension setting. I could think that the car is handling great but, without tire temps/preassure, I can't maximaize what I have or really know what's going on.
Also, there is a difference between using normal air or nitrogen, and different compound/make tires.
My suggestion is, whatever suspension mod you will do and how much $$$ you will spend, put appart a little amount for a good pyrometer and tire preassure gauge and then you will get a real feel for your settings.
Thanks
I see only street alignments in this thread...