British 300HP RX8 launch
10-21-2005, 02:31 AM
#27
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Gotta be intake, exhaust and a chip mod of some kind. What I would like to know however is just where is all this loss inbetween the flywheel and the rear wheels? You have clutch, driveshaft, differential....those 3 are eating up that much horsepower just to turn them??
10-21-2005, 06:05 AM
#28
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Typical rear wheel drive w/ manual tranny will have around a 15% hp loss... That thing is showing around a 30% loss so the clutch is slipping or the tires are slipping on the dyno... or it's fake...
10-21-2005, 06:54 AM
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I saw a RX-7 with a renesis engine do 234 rwhp but this is a racing car with stand alone ecu, direct exsahust and no ac, no power steering or anything, the engine was not ported.
The only way I see this hapening is if the engine was ported and had a 11,000 rpm red line and the intake modifications to go with that.
The only way I see this hapening is if the engine was ported and had a 11,000 rpm red line and the intake modifications to go with that.
Last edited by rotary crazy; 10-21-2005 at 06:57 AM.
10-21-2005, 06:55 AM
#30
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Originally Posted by sunilseru
+1
There is no way any car can be that inefficient unless it is lubricated with tar...
There is no way any car can be that inefficient unless it is lubricated with tar...
10-21-2005, 08:36 AM
#31
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Isn't there a dyno of someone who already made 206hp at the wheels bone stock? So wouldn't that be around 250 at the flywheel? I understand the UK version is rated at 231 and our is at 238 but at 300 at the flywheel and only 210? I guess we'll just have to wait till his car(s) comes out.
10-21-2005, 09:03 AM
#32
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The article says no turbos or superchargers. It didn't say no nitrous. It can't be an engine swap, and it's probably not an extensively ported motor--those would be too much time and money. But a body kit, wheels, and a nitrous bottle is something a dealer could do in a day or two; and still make a good profit per vehicle without raising the price sky high. Just a guess though.
What's with the fruity new emoticons?
What's with the fruity new emoticons?
10-21-2005, 01:58 PM
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Originally Posted by spectre26
A 300Bhp version of the RX8 is to be launched in the UK before the years end. Most of the specifics are being kept under wraps till the unveling at the MPH show. All that can be said about it is that is a N/A machine. Hard to believe but apparently there is not a turbo or supercharger in sight.
I have been able to get hold of a press release from the guy who is putting this RX8 together for sale.
Quoted extract from his typed mail.
Can’t answer all your questions at this present time but here are a couple of facts that may be of interest to you.
Current RX-8 has 231 at the flywheel and 154 at the rear wheels,we have a Dyno print out on our vehicle of 300 at the flywheel and 210 at the rear wheels[/U].Torque has been improved but not as much as we would like. Not a turbo (you can get those from Japan) or supercharged.
We should be in a position to come to the market in approx 2 months and hope to launch it at the MPH Show where we will have it on the T.W.White stand.
Retail price will be under £30k[U] which will include a full Mazda Speed Body Kit.The car has been lowered by 30mm and the brakes have been uprated. The handling is better than the current RX-8 but I still need to sort out the warranty on this vehicle.
Neil White
For those of you who are not fimilar with Neil White owns a chain of Mazda dealers here in the UK... 4 in total i believe. He has taken it upon himself to produce a 300Bhp RX8 and a 260Bhp RX8 for sale to the general public. This differs slightly from going to buy an RX8 from a tuning house in that This car would be the same as going into your local dealer and buying a regular RX8, it even comes with a mazda approved 3yr warranty when it is finally released.
The question of how much MPG the new RX8 he is producing will consume was asked. To which Neil White kinda just skipped over the question. So i am guessing its not gonna be a very economical figure... But if it is as much fun to drive as the hype is makin it out to be... who cares :D
I have been able to get hold of a press release from the guy who is putting this RX8 together for sale.
Quoted extract from his typed mail.
Can’t answer all your questions at this present time but here are a couple of facts that may be of interest to you.
Current RX-8 has 231 at the flywheel and 154 at the rear wheels,we have a Dyno print out on our vehicle of 300 at the flywheel and 210 at the rear wheels[/U].Torque has been improved but not as much as we would like. Not a turbo (you can get those from Japan) or supercharged.
We should be in a position to come to the market in approx 2 months and hope to launch it at the MPH Show where we will have it on the T.W.White stand.
Retail price will be under £30k[U] which will include a full Mazda Speed Body Kit.The car has been lowered by 30mm and the brakes have been uprated. The handling is better than the current RX-8 but I still need to sort out the warranty on this vehicle.
Neil White
For those of you who are not fimilar with Neil White owns a chain of Mazda dealers here in the UK... 4 in total i believe. He has taken it upon himself to produce a 300Bhp RX8 and a 260Bhp RX8 for sale to the general public. This differs slightly from going to buy an RX8 from a tuning house in that This car would be the same as going into your local dealer and buying a regular RX8, it even comes with a mazda approved 3yr warranty when it is finally released.
The question of how much MPG the new RX8 he is producing will consume was asked. To which Neil White kinda just skipped over the question. So i am guessing its not gonna be a very economical figure... But if it is as much fun to drive as the hype is makin it out to be... who cares :D
Bone stock is close to 200whp. And they want around $53,000 US for the extra 10-15 hp?!?!? I call BS.
10-21-2005, 05:05 PM
#39
Originally Posted by r0tor
how can anyone say this is impossible when they have no idea of the type of dyno used and the methods of getting flywheel and wheel power... -sigh-
10-21-2005, 05:30 PM
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I'm not sure how the rx-8 which apparently has 154rwh can be faster in a straight line than cars such as the rsx type s, which has about 170rwh and weighs less than the rx8. The numbers just don't match up, can somebody please help explain this to me. And I realize the 0-60 on the rx8 bieng better may be explained by the fact that it's rear wheel drive, as opposed to the rsx which is front wheel drive. But I know for a fact that the rx8 is also faster off a roll.
10-21-2005, 05:37 PM
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Originally Posted by slalom29
I'm not sure how the rx-8 which apparently has 154rwh can be faster in a straight line than cars such as the rsx type s, which has about 170rwh and weighs less than the rx8. The numbers just don't match up, can somebody please help explain this to me. And I realize the 0-60 on the rx8 bieng better may be explained by the fact that it's rear wheel drive, as opposed to the rsx which is front wheel drive. But I know for a fact that the rx8 is also faster off a roll.
10-21-2005, 06:03 PM
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Originally Posted by Mazmart
I'm saying 300 flywheel hp isn't going to happen on a renesis without some forced induction, not anytime soon anyway. The present version in race trim makes as much power as some bridgeported motors did. That's really impressive.
and WTF is this
and this 
doing in a predominately male car forum????????
10-21-2005, 06:56 PM
#44
Bummed, but bring on OU!
Originally Posted by r0tor
I wouldn't say that without knowing what was actually done... a similar car in the UK would be an EVO FQ430 which comes from the dealer with a completely race built 430 hp engine with a factory warranty
10-21-2005, 10:05 PM
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Originally Posted by Red Devil
300hp is probably just for marketing. The general public won't question and will buy based on the advertised/inflated number.
10-22-2005, 03:06 AM
#46
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Fine I'll say it. You will not get a 300 hp naturally aspirated 2 rotor Renesis engine. Period. You have to have a peripheral port engine to get that and we aren't going to see that on the streets. I don't need to know what was done. I know what wasn't done and that's 300 hp without help. There was a turbo 1st gen offered for sale in England back in the early 80's as a dealer installed option. The turbo or supercharger option I would believe but that's the ONLY way it will happen.
10-25-2005, 05:43 PM
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Just got another mail from the boss at T W Whites giving an update on the car. Heres how it reads.
We have been developing the car since April this year.Originally we made a rich fuel map and adjusted to suit.
We still have a lot more mapping work to do including;
1. Refine all aspects of acceleration
2. Remove any flat spots
3. Refine cold start/hot start performance
4. Ensure all aspects of OBD are fully functional
5. Confirm combustion temperatures and air fuel ratio generally
6. Confirm acceptable emissions for future MOT tests
7. Set up closed loop Lambda correction
Once this is complete we can then confirm power and torque output with final ECU settings. Coast down to establish accurate power/torque readings at flywheel (to compare to factory figures). Aside from performance figures we do need to finalise a few ‘cosmetic’ changes.
I am happy with pricing and can confirm a retail price of under £30k which will include full Mazda Speed Body Kit and track session with a current B.T.C driver.
We are now the largest RX 8 dealers in Europe and have sold over 1000 new/used RX 8’s. I will only bring this car to the market if my technical people ‘sign it off’. All the salespeople were shown the car on Monday 10th October. It does look ‘stunning’ but we need to get the magical 300 with back up official power/torque output graph that can be used in the marketing/sales of this model. If we have any doubts about the vehicle I will abandon the project.
Once we are happy (and I have sorted out the warranty) I would be happy for 3 or 4 of you to come to Bookham to ‘test it’ prior to its launch.You guys know your vehicles and ‘won’t pull any punches’.
A lot of dealers ‘stretch the facts’- we are trying to be honest with you and keeping you up to date with this project.
Give me a call if you want to try the car before launch – I think we will definitely get the 300 – but the car will never deliver the torque level found in Evo’s etc. It just can’t be done – that’s the downside.
Neil White
Know how many of u feel regarding this topic. But just reminding u guys I'm just delivering the messages here. Well anyway proof is in the pudding as the saying goes. So i'll be waiting for that official invite to go out for that pre release test drive.
We have been developing the car since April this year.Originally we made a rich fuel map and adjusted to suit.
We still have a lot more mapping work to do including;
1. Refine all aspects of acceleration
2. Remove any flat spots
3. Refine cold start/hot start performance
4. Ensure all aspects of OBD are fully functional
5. Confirm combustion temperatures and air fuel ratio generally
6. Confirm acceptable emissions for future MOT tests
7. Set up closed loop Lambda correction
Once this is complete we can then confirm power and torque output with final ECU settings. Coast down to establish accurate power/torque readings at flywheel (to compare to factory figures). Aside from performance figures we do need to finalise a few ‘cosmetic’ changes.
I am happy with pricing and can confirm a retail price of under £30k which will include full Mazda Speed Body Kit and track session with a current B.T.C driver.
We are now the largest RX 8 dealers in Europe and have sold over 1000 new/used RX 8’s. I will only bring this car to the market if my technical people ‘sign it off’. All the salespeople were shown the car on Monday 10th October. It does look ‘stunning’ but we need to get the magical 300 with back up official power/torque output graph that can be used in the marketing/sales of this model. If we have any doubts about the vehicle I will abandon the project.
Once we are happy (and I have sorted out the warranty) I would be happy for 3 or 4 of you to come to Bookham to ‘test it’ prior to its launch.You guys know your vehicles and ‘won’t pull any punches’.
A lot of dealers ‘stretch the facts’- we are trying to be honest with you and keeping you up to date with this project.
Give me a call if you want to try the car before launch – I think we will definitely get the 300 – but the car will never deliver the torque level found in Evo’s etc. It just can’t be done – that’s the downside.
Neil White
Know how many of u feel regarding this topic. But just reminding u guys I'm just delivering the messages here. Well anyway proof is in the pudding as the saying goes. So i'll be waiting for that official invite to go out for that pre release test drive.
11-01-2005, 03:15 PM
#49
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Thanks for sharing, keep us posted if the invite comes...I have no doubt they can make a faster 8, but I'll revert to RG's post on 300hp NA not being possible...
And I've always thought a neat idea for the 8 would be a "tuner" equipped car. In other words, it would come with an already upgraded fuel system, uprated clutch/flywheel (and tranny if needed), radiator etc...but still leave the engine stock. And as for the suspension, do chassis braces and strut braces, but leave everything else like coilovers and sway bars optional for the individual. Such a car would be a good starter kit for anyone looking to personalize the 8 from a strictly performance standpoint, and the factory would have already taken care of most of the nit-pick work. Just rambling since we're on somewhat of a similar topic...
And I've always thought a neat idea for the 8 would be a "tuner" equipped car. In other words, it would come with an already upgraded fuel system, uprated clutch/flywheel (and tranny if needed), radiator etc...but still leave the engine stock. And as for the suspension, do chassis braces and strut braces, but leave everything else like coilovers and sway bars optional for the individual. Such a car would be a good starter kit for anyone looking to personalize the 8 from a strictly performance standpoint, and the factory would have already taken care of most of the nit-pick work. Just rambling since we're on somewhat of a similar topic...
Last edited by Red Devil; 11-01-2005 at 03:20 PM.
