You can't have your cake and eat it too.
 

Anyone who thinks that the RX-8 should have a base price of $26,000 is being very unrealistic. How can Mazda build a car that has the same interior quality as an Audi, handling like a BMW, more power than a BMW 330i, and sell it for less than a V-6 Honda Accord which doesn't have any of the above items? Nicer cars cost more money. Live with it, or buy a cheaper car

I'll be glad if the car costs more than $30,000. That way the car will be more significant and have more exclusivity than a Subaru WRX. If the Mazda RX-8 were priced in the mid $20K range, it would have the same quality and materials as a Nissan Altima or a Subaru. Let’s not turn the RX-8 into a mainstream car.

As for the Infiniti comments, the infinity G35 is a step above Nissan and Honda, but a step below Audi, BMW, and Mercedes. I think that the RX-8 will fall in the same category.

Mazda needs a higher priced car in its showroom. It brings people into the showroom. The RX-8 also will have a halo effect on the lower priced Mazdas. Having the RX-8 in the showrooms will help sell the lower priced Mazdas and make them more attractive, just by association. So higher price does not necessarily = lower sales which intern may not be "bad for Mazda".

I’m glad that Mazda didn’t use the folks here for input on the RX-8. If they did, we would have a Mazda RX-8, without any serious straight-line performance, no low end or mid range torque, lower quality components because the price cannot exceed $30K, and a wagon version. I’m not saying that I should determine the RX-8s direction but if we leave it up to some of the folks here the RX-8 will be nothing more than an also-ran, a Subaru WRX without the neck snapping acceleration, wagon version also available.

Good Lord!
 

Wow, that was quite a little message there. I do not want the car to cost over 30K. And neither does Mazda. If you look at Mazda, even know they are still small potatoes in the car industry, any one little sneeze and they could be gone. They need to revolutionize the brand, like they did in 1990 with the Miata. And in order to do that they need to make a car that appeals to a broad range of people, and like it or not, that means having it at a lower price. I understand that you don't want to be pulling up alongside an RX-8 at every light, but you also must realize that Mazda is on the razor's edge, if it does not sell well and sell for a long time, Mazda's sporty image will lack it's keystone and eventually crumble.

I only want what Mazda promised a long time ago...a 4 seat, rotary-powered SPORTS CAR with a BASE price of $26K.

From what you say you want the RX-8 to be a new RX-7, which it is not. The RX-8 will determine if the 7 will ever come back. Then you will have your more expensive car with neck snapping acceleration. You sound like a troll.

Personally, I can't afford and wouldn't want to pay over 32 K for a car loaded with the options of my choice, but hey, that's me. But I do love what Mazda is trying to accomplish with the RX-8 (No it's not the car of my dreams, but it comes real close) ...

In reading another thread that linked me to this story, I had to past this in:

"Unfortunately, Mazda again made some fundamental mistakes, including the belief that the RX-7 could steadily move up-market. There’s no question the last-generation RX-7 was a fine piece of engineering--fast, stylish and sophisticated. But it was just too expensive and complex, and fell flat on its face, forcing Mazda to pull it from the market in 1995."

From
http://www.thecarconnection.com/index.asp?article=5518

For me it is about price, value, safety and style/performance ... for less money I'd get a RSX or Celica for my sports car needs or a Protege 5, Matrix/Vibe or the Honda Element for that added blend of practicality - But I would prefer the RX-8 2+2 as long as I can afford it.

I's sorry to say that although I have a good job, I don't make enough to pay any more ... :p

Re: You can't have your cake and eat it too.
 

We owe a loaded turbo 2000 Passat that we got NEW for a little over $25K and it's quality is far above the other cars in it's class and a lot less than an Audi A4 ;) basically the same car

I really hope that Mazda keeps the RX-8 around $26K - $32 ... :(

Why is it that when anyone says something that isn't 100% positive about the RX-8 people like "fritts" accuses them of being a troll?

I like the RX-8 and so do most of the folks here. Just because you like the car, that does not make it exempt from legitimate criticism. Live with it!

People here are just too darn sensitive about a car that isn’t even out yet. It seems like some people on this forum are part of the design team or something. But even members of the design team are receptive to constructive criticism.

But ah ha, I did not say you were a troll, only that you sounded like one.....

If the mazda company continues to grow, maybe it should make a more luxurious division like Acura, Lexus, and Infinity. But the fact is that they aren't that big and no matter how you look at it, their competition is going to remain with Nissan, Toyota, and Honda.

Needless to say, if the RX8 goes above 30K base price, more than half the people on this forum won't be able to afford it. Alienating supporters is not going to improve any company's reputation or sales. And I don't think those people who are wanting the car for the 26K base price really care about it having a lot of nice standard options, and a luxurious fit and trim. What they want is a well engineered car that is fun to drive. Such a car does not have to be built exclusively for wealthier individuals. Gold knobs, wood trim, and a Navigation system will not make the car drive any better.

Mazda should be able to strike a balance with this car by offering differen't models and options to fit a wide range of buyers' budgets.

Spoonie-

I don't think you were offering legitimate criticism in your original post. Boiling your post down to a few brief phrases, I come away with a summary of. "I want it to cost over $30,000" and that any of us who were expecting a 26K base price should just suck it up or go and mope about it in the corner. I don't see it as legitimate criticism, I dont even see the criticism it in reference to the car, your statement seems to criticize the demographics of people who can only consider it at a price of 26-29K. Plus who would rather pay an extra 4K for a car when they said the starting price was 26K. Thats like walking into a dealership with 32K, pointing at a car and saying "I want that one" without looking at the stifcker price, it just doesn't make sense :o

First understand this... the use of higher quality plastics doesn't cost THAT much more money. Mazda has a history of decent interiors, and if the Mazda6 is any indication of the interior of the RX-8, it's BMW quality.

The reason you pay more for BMW and Audi is simply that... they are BMW and Audi. A name that has been built over years and years of work, and priced worked out to be 'luxury cars.' Hitting BMW's handling mark doesn't really cost more or less, it takes the work of TIME to find the magic suspension formula and hopefully Mazda's engineers have taken their time to find just that.

If they used our input it wouldn't have any torque, and the interior would be poor quality? What crack are you smoking? If Mazda listened to us then the car would probably remain exactly as it is; none of us here are car experts in the slightest like Mazda's engineers are.

Understand something; when the Altima came out with a beefy 240 3.5L engine, people RUSHED to see it and buy it. What did they buy? The 2.5L. There are lots of them on the road and NOT the 3.5L. People bought the car for the price, and for the look. That RUSH will be taken care of by the Mazda6 and enthusiasts will step over and take the RX-8. Regardless of what YOU think it should be worth, Mazda needs to make their entry shot back into the sports car segment carefully; too high a price for an untested engine will NEVER fly. 26-31k is ideal, and keeps in competition with the 350Z, G35C, and the 330 all of which can go above the range of 31k, making the RX-8 a very appealing car in an already overcrowded market.

Re: You can't have your cake and eat it too.
 

I realize that you want a unique car (so do I), but this makes it sound like you only want the car because other people can't afford it. Personally, I want the car for it's unique engine and driving characteristics.

Sorry, if I've mistaken your point of view.

I have to disagree. It's more than just the name. What you are saying (correct me if I'm wrong) is that the main difference between a Honda Accord/ Toyota Camry and a BMW 3-series is the Badge. C'mon, If you were to put a BMW badge on a Camry, you will not be able to sell the car for $35K+. Also, if the only difference was the badge, who would buy a BMW knowing that there are cars, that are just as good, that is much cheaper? Prestige is nice, but I doubt that anyone would be willing to fork out another $10K just for prestige.

They are cheap cars, and they are expensive cars. The Lexus LS-430 is more expensive than the ES-300. Why, because of the LS-430 Badge? No it’s because the LS-430 is a better car than the ES-300. The same goes for cars of different brands.

If you were to take the badges off of a Camry and a BMW 3 series, and ask anyone which car appears to be more expensive, which car do you think that they would choose?

I drove my colleges jaguar XJS a couple of months ago. While driving the car I said " its more than just the name". Do you think that the Jaguar is the same as any other car, the only difference being the badge? If you do then you are on crack. And I don’t even like the jaguar.

Re: You can't have your cake and eat it too.
 

you are quoting my post from the other day so let me respond.

first you can't really believe that lower sales would not be bad for any company so i'll choose to believe that is a grammatical error on your part. unless you know some economic voodoo that shows otherwise.

second yes it does for this car. as several people on this board including myself have said we wont be able to afford it if it starts over 30k.

third why the hell not. sounds like elitist bullcrap to me. i for one hope they sell as many as they can build and more. then they can open another plant and make more. then mazda will be able to build the mazdaspeed version that some people want. and the rx7 that others want. and they will be in buisiness for along time making more great cars, that are full production and widely available. so that when the time comes to replace my 8 there will be an even better car to trade up to.

No, it's the assumed value of that badge. All of these car companies worked hard for MANY years to give the value to that badge. Now they can charge a premium for it.

So in essence even the LS-430 example you make falls under this. For years Lexus made more and more luxurious and nice riding cars, giving them a better and better image. Their customer service has been very, VERY good for years, which all adds into that badge's value. Now, they can charge a price marked up from other cars in their respective class because they earned the right to do so thru superior engineering and use of better materials.

Sure there's more to the badge than the car, but that doesn't stop people from wanting the BADGE! A BMW handles great, Audi has great interior, Jags are very elegant with no hard lines, Lexus is very comfy and uses good materials for Japanese sedans... and all those factors give more value to their respective badges. People are willing to pay more money for the comfort, quality, or handling that these cars bring with their history of doing so, and thus are willing to pay... for the badge.

oh come on. people everyday choose things to purchase because the other people in the neighborhood have this or drive that. why do people buy hilfiger sweatshirts or ralph lauren polo shirts? are they any better made then other cotton sweatshirts and polo shirts. no they just have a label attached to them that has a different name. people spend money on things all the time just for the prestige of owning what ever it is or what ever name is on it.

Actually Lexus is an interesting comparison...

When Lexus first started out, what did they offer over the German competition? Great engine, great interior, and amazing price! It was so amazing that BMW took apart an LS400 and said that they couldnt make it for less than 70K while Lexus was selling it for 40K. Such is the case with Mazda and it's sports cars now. You can almost say, excluding the Miata that they are starting over with their sports cars, so like Lexus, they need to offer something extra to their buyers, so that later down the road they can make the expensive RX-7's and the like. But with Lexus, as with Mazda, it need pricing on its side to get the fire going.

Re: Re: You can't have your cake and eat it too.
 

What are you a Lawyer? You only quoted the part of my post that emphasized your point. What about the rest of the statement? I’ll quote it again for you

“Mazda needs a higher priced car in its showroom. It brings people into the showroom. The RX-8 also will have a halo effect on the lower priced Mazdas. Having the RX-8 in the showrooms will help sell the lower priced Mazdas and make them more attractive, just by association”

Also, Image is everything. Do you think that dodge sells a lot of Vipers? The main purpose of some sports cars is to add spice to the brand in general.

Re: Re: Re: You can't have your cake and eat it too.
 

Do you think there a lot of cars that are similar to the Viper in any way shape or form? Not too many. Balls-out power and that aggressive styling are found in one package known as the Viper. People buy it because it's a VIPER.

People don't go into the showroom enticed by a Viper and wind up buying a Ram. It adds spice to the brand sure, but it also comes from the excess money that Dodge has due to sales of its Intrepid and Rams... so they can push out one show car.

Mazda doesn't make nearly the money Dodge does, and right now outpricing the segment would be a stupid idea. It's simple marketing. When there is little to no demand for your product you create your own market by shoving it against its closest competition and outpricing it.

Exactly.. the RX-8 will not entice me to buy a Protege or 5/6.. It might improve the image of the brand but Mazda is not at a point where it can afford to build limited production, high cost "image" vehicles. The RX-7 maybe can be that car, the RX-8 needs to sell and sell well.

Agreed, Although my 330i is leased, my next car I plan on purchasing. My Price Range is $28K-32K. So I guess I'm criticizing myself. Your points are well taken.

Re: Re: Re: You can't have your cake and eat it too.
 

there, now i have quoted your whole post for you. and my first point should of had a smiley or the missing rolleyes to show you i was kidding/ being sarcastic. now, didn't you say before that people won't pay 10k more for a name and now you are saying image is everthing? :confused:
as far as needing a higher priced car in their showroom, i think they need to show they can build great cars to the general public (not just the enthusiasts) and build on that. once the have a solid well known rep for great cars then they can start making more upscale/expensive cars. but that is just my opinion.
Now be nice and take back that lawyer crack.

Re: Re: Re: Re: You can't have your cake and eat it too.
 

I take it back.

cool

there are many causes that affects the price factor. most of the Gemany cars are likely more expensive than the jap cars at the same class. u know why? in germany, the worker's wages are higher than the japs, they have better insurance, higher standard, higher tax rate and stuffs. therefore, the overhead costs are much higher than the japs firms.

mean while, as mazda mentioned, the Rotary engine is made by very few parts only. consequently, the cost can be lowered. moreover, the mazda is a light weighted car, which means there are (theoretically speaking) less parts then the BMW and other cars that are at the price range of 30~40K.

as for marketing, that is how mazda set their price in the states. at this stage, the RX8 wont be selling well if the price is at 40k, no doubt about that. just try to think more, and u will find more reasons why RX8 is at a perfect price range now.