Sky,

Good post.

Well I partly agree with you. There definately is no need for the name calling. There seems to be some bashing, however, its not all because of one speaking out on the RX-8 deficiencies. It's more specific then your "blanket statement". On this thread it's the constant bitchin of some people receiving lower than expected gas mileage and voicing almost a regret in purchasing this auto. I and others do not consider the MPG that the RX-8 is getting a deficiency. I know this is a sports car, not an economy car. I know how it easy it is to drive hard. I know how much fun is to drive in the "aspirated" mode. I live in the city. I expected to have lower MPG's because of these factors and expected to never reach the EPA rating in my scenario. I knew this before I purchased the vehicle, yet I still bought it. The ones that are now complaining should have known that, yet they still bought it. I and others are just tired of this almost "buyer's remorse" attitude from a few just because of their lower than expected gas mileage.

We have averaged about 1-2 MPG at worst since we owned the car. Because of that reason, I doubt there is a widespread mechanical or emissions problem causing people's extremely poor gas mileage. I believe it is driving conditions and techniques. And with that point you quoted.....

With this I totally agree with you. I posted this statement in another thread - When my wife relayed the MPG's we were getting, and they were about 1-2 miles lower then the EPA, she reminded me that we have never reached the optimal EPA rating on any of the 12+ vehicles we've owned. And then proceeded to tell me economy mileage is not why we bought this vehicle in the first place.

We do not always drive in perfect conditions or roads, nor do we drive like robots to always achieve that "mystical" EPA. If one comes to gripes with that, then one shouldn't be overly disappointed when the MPG is lower than expected.

Thank you Skyline. That is exactly the point of all this nonsense. I stated the horrible gas mileage that I'm getting and people start saying that it's immpossible to get 13 mpg if I'm driving the way I say I am.

All I wanted were opinions. That is what is happening. Instead, I get people saying that I'm may be lying, or that I calculated my gas mileage incorrectly.

Maybe, I went too far with my responses, but I do not understand why certain people responded the way they did tp the original comment of. "I'm getting 13 MPG"!?? Shifting at an average of 5000 rpm.

OK, this is true to a certain degree. Though, if a person (such as myself), posts a thread stating what gas mileage they are getting and they try to get answers as to why it's happening, I think it is legitimate.


My mileage of 13mpg is not meeting the epa estimates, 18 city, 24 highway. I'm OK with that. But, what I'm concerned about is that in the bottom of the left corner of the window sticker it states that "results reported to the epa indicate that the majority of wehicles with these estimates will achieve between 15 and 21 mpg in the city.


Now, my gas mileage is still 2 mpg worse than that. Again, I'm shifting at an average of 5000 RPM, I don't think that it is unreasonable to expect at 15 mpg, that is why I posted this thread originally. If a person wants to critisize me or deny this is happening the way that I am saying it is, then "I don't know what to say". Help me, or don't; the choice is yours.

Your experience seems to be way off the norm considering how you say you are driving. I suggest you need to lodge a serious complaint with your dealer - perhaps do a swap with their demo car for 100 miles or so (borrow overnight) to check the fuel economy in that car compared to yours.

Well rotarymagic, I don't know what to tell you. I don't have all the answers. The fact is that the majority of owners are getting the "results reported to the epa indicate that the majority of wehicles with these estimates will achieve between 15 and 21 mpg in the city" rating for which you speak.

It's not impossible that you may have a vehicle that has a problem. I do think, however, and it is my opinion, that those 13 MPGs, are more of a result of driving technique and conditons. Maybe more than you realize. Since I don't know when, where & how often you shift, and how many stop & goes you encounter, it's hard to say how you can improve with your driving technique.

In your case, I hope your MPG's improve as the car gets a little more broken-in.

Exactly! It's not impossible as I stated before, that rotarymagic may have an isolated problem with his car. You have a good idea pelucidor for him to lodge a complaint and compare another vehicle, by driving one. That should isolate whether it is the MPG problem is unique to his car, or caused by his driving technique and conditions.

I am getting around 13 to 15mpg and my check engine light came on and dealer checked my car out and said their was no leaks or anything that would be causing bad gas mileage

Yeah, but your dealer also said that your subs caused the CEL to come on, so I wouldn't put any worth on what they said.

---jps

point taken

Hi guys and gals,

Do you guys with under 15 mpg drive with the A/c on all the time?? I've notice with my first two tanks I got about 200 miles give or take, thats while sprinting from light to light shifting btw 4-7k and Having my a/c on. But with this last tank I'm at 195 and still have a quarter tank of gas left mind it was 30% highway and the rest city, but i believe I got better milelage because I didnt turn on my A/C every single minute. I would sat 50% of the time it was on. I still drive it hard and since I'm past 600 mile mark I rev it even higher.

I use a/c about 50% of the time

I drive with the a/c on about 75%-85% of the time

How about your windows? How often do you drive with them open?

I drive with my windows, front only, open about 90% of the time. Sometimes with both the a/c on and the windows open.

a/c on and windows open? Do you do this in your home? That is silly. One or the other man! :cool:

I have about 1,150 miles on my automatic, and have been breaking it in very carefully -- light throttle, low revs. Worst mileage, under 16, best, around 19 with 2/3 of tank on the road. This is my first rotary, so I thought that was bad, because the EPA is 18-25. Reading other posts, it seems it's par for the course, and may not imrove after full breakin. The car's more than worth it, but I still think it ought to give 25 on a full tank of road driving. Every other car I've owned has made the EPA highway figure (last one, Integra GS-R, 31), because I drive smoothly, though fairly fast.
Mitch
Silver, w/$3,500 package, cloth, and those gorgeous aluminum pedals.

Whne i dont have ac on I have my window open 75% of the time.

Y'all doin much showin? I must have shown my 8 at least 8 times by now & each time I do, I fire it up to let them know how a rotary sounds, with a little revving & letting it idle while they're looking at (what they can see of) the engine.

That's 0.0 mpg run time. That's gotta hurt overall mpg by at least a little. Might be negligible.

Just a thought...

edit: I've been using an Excel (.xls) file to log my gas info since June 2000, when I bought my Infiniti. I have just started a separate new one for my 8.

You enter the date, total miles, miles since last fillup, gallons & cost of fillup. (Since I always pay at the pump & make sure I get a receipt for my debit card info, I use it & write down the two mileages on it & zero the trip odometer. When I get home, I enter it into my checkbook & my Excel file. Then you can throw away the receipt.)

It automatically calculates mpg, price per gallon & extended miles per year for just that fillup, total combined mpg & average miles per year. It also charts your MPG, Total Miles & Gas Pricing.

If anybody wants a copy, pm me with an email address.

To A6s owner. My auto can't shift into fifth because it's a four-speed. Mazda apparently couldn't afford a new tranny, because they used what they officially described as a "tried and true" old one, gussied up with paddle shifters (I like them) and electronics that are supposed to be smart (put you in third for engine braking on some downhills, not upshift too soon on some uphills). I calculated the gearing, and it's set for smoothness and economy, compared with the 6-speed. That's why the auto EPA road is 25, not 24. I calculated the miles/hr per 1,000 rpm as 23.5 for the auto, based on Mazda's published gear ratios for both cars and Road & Tracks figure of 19.4 for the 6-speed.
Mitch
Silver auto w/$3,500 upgrade, cloth, aluminum pedal facings.

Hercules made a good point about fuel economy in another thread - he suggested that you should always open the rear windows if the fronts are open to improve drag (economy) and noise.

I drive with windows always closed and aircon on 100% of the time (its Houston!). Still getting over 17mpg whilst hitting 8000-9000rpm several times a day.

It is just so humid here sometimes 100% humidity (the other day there was a dewpoint of 75), that opening the windows doesn't do much to help the heat/humidity, so I turn on the a/c as well. I like driving with the windows open in the summer. Think about it, with around 7 months of winter, where nobody opens their windows, opening them in the summer is a must for me. I know I probably shouldn't as far as gas mileage goes.

Are you serious? Or are you being sarcastic? If you are serious, no wonder you are getting 13 MPG's. And I felt sorry for you in the fact that you might have had a problem with your car that was contributing to your lousy mileage. If you would have told us earlier in this thread that you drove around all day with your windows down and your AC on, then no one would have accused you of being a liar when you said you got lousy MPG's. They would have instead just called you a fool.

Easy my brother! This car shouldn't get that bad mileage (13mpg)even if we were towing a jet ski! :)

Easy on the magic man, he is one of us you know.

I also drive windows-down, AC-on. I like the fresh air, but I also like a cool breeze. After 6 tanks so far, I'm averaging 16.2mpg around town. After my next fill, I'm going to try winding the windows up to see what, if any, difference it makes to the mileage.

I wasn't that hard on him. I don't know, Tom. He didn't tell us before he was driving around with his windows down & his AC on. Maybe he didn't tell us he was hauling around a jet ski either. ;)

Oh yes..that's right. I forgot the RX-8 AT was only 4 speed. The Mazda 6 ATs are 5 speed (220hp version) and I must have gotten these two confused.

By the way, thank you very much for your responses.

Now all I have to do is pretend I didn't see the $1.89 per galon sticker for premium gas in my local gas station tonight, and I'll be that much closer to wanting an 8.

Your right, I should have mentioned this in the begining.

There is no jet ski, though :D

Exactly, fresh air + cool breeze.

Other than that how do you drive your car? Shift points? Stop and go vs. highway?

I want to try and find people with similar variables as I have to compare MPG to MPG.

My daily commute is about an 8-mile mix of 'burbs and freeway. No nose-to-tail traffic. Other driving around town is under similar conditions. Around town, I tend to use 3rd and 4th; mostly 3rd - I let the engine purr along at 4000-plus rpm. I'll occasionally redline it through the first three cogs when getting onto the freeway, but mostly I shift between 5000 and 7000. And when I take it out of town for an evening run, I tend to get on it pretty hard.

So I'm hardly driving for economy, but neither do I floor it all the time.

Hmmm, I've been watching this thread, and others on fuel economy, with some concern since I knew I'd be getting an RX-8 soon. The car I'm coming from is a V6 Accord coupe which regularly achieved at least 28 mpg. I drive about 22,000 per year, so fuel economy is a factor for me, and I hoped I'd be able to get the EPA estimate 24 regularly out of the '8'. After reading all of this, though, I revised my hopes to around 20 mpg, and I figured the loss in fuel economy was made up for by the fun-to-drive factor.

Now that I have the car, I thought I'd post my results so far. Admittedly, I only have filled up twice, but have a lot to be happy about, I think.

First tank:
227.6 miles/12.0 gallons = 18.97 mpg

Second tank:
290.0 miles/12.5 gallons = 23.2 mpg

I drive approximately 80/20 highway/city on my commute to work. I have been getting the car into 6th without skipping any gears and then leaving it in 6th pretty regularly. I downshift to 5th or 4th for a burst of speed or to pass. The car has 581 miles on it, so I haven't redlined it yet, but I'm sure I will in ... oh ... about 19 more miles. :) I've been shifting at around 4000 or 5000, but overall haven't taken it over 6000 yet.

My first tank I was idling the car more than you usually would -- showing it off to friends and letting it warm up after moving it into or out of the garage for Zaino purposes, plus playing with the navigation system. Second tank was much more "normal" driving with much less idling. I used 93 octane Exxon fuel. Not sure what the dealer put in it.

Personally, I think the extreme differences in fuel economy that people are noticing points to a difference in some of the cars. I think there may have been an early batch that may have a "problem." Who knows? I'm pleased that so far (fingers crossed!) my car seems to be performing OK in this category, and I hope those of you who are getting less will find an answer soon.

No, you're from Minnesota, you're more likely to be hauling a couple of snow mobiles around instead. ;) Are you sure you not telling us you are also hauling around threee 200 lb passengers, and/or a 1/2 cord of firewood too. ;)

On a serious note, I sincerely hope you MPG's improve over time or you find out if something may be wrong with your car and get it fixed.

Wondering the same thing since I got my car in the first 8 days of deliveries. Another reason to Opt for the "buy-back" if offered.

To Skyline Maniac and Zoomster. I don't want to be a know-it-all, but if someone tells you how the EPA tests, why not put EPA and gas mileage on Google? It will tell you that the folk myths are just that. For example, how about 18% of the city cycle being IDLING, after beginning with a cold start. And highway averages 48, going up to 60 -- but no stops. Is that all? Hardly. The EPA compares test results with real world experience, and lowers the city test scores 10%, the highway ones 22%.
Bottom line: EPA and all sensible people know that results can vary with OK engines for lots of reasons -- temperature, traffic conditions, driving style, AC/windows, etc. If you have experience with your own driving style, in similar conditions, in other cars, you have some sort of benchmark. In other words, if you always get 2 or three miles worse than EPA, and that's what your RX8 is getting, the car is right on. Maybe better than that, if you drive the RX8 harder than the others. Personally, I have hit the highway figures in several cars, regular and high performance, and so far I am driving the RX8 less hard, because of break-in. So I'm inclined to think my car is delivering 2 or 3 fewer mpg than it should.
Mitch
BTW, driving with AC on and windows closed is a bit more economical than opening moonroof and windows.

I see what you are saying, however the EPA's "real world" is not my "real world", your "real world", Skyline Mechanic's "real world", etc. You get the point. Everbodies situation is unique. Although you are right that driving technique is a big factor in MPG's (which I agree with you), your unique driving condition or enviroment also plays a big part.

I agree with your other points, people driving other cars to determine "lead footitis", and driving with AC & windows up as being more economical.

Let's also not forget the effects of gearing on those perceptions (and thus mileage.)

For example, many domestic cars have their automatic transmissions set to making the car feel very peppy in the low range. The Mercury Cougar and Plymouth Breeze, to name two I've rented, both feel as if they must have 400 HP under the hood because if you breathe on the gas pedal you're thrown back in your seat; it's only when you get much above 40 MPH that you realize there's no more power on tap.

Now, drive a car around that's geared like that and then move to a car like the RX-8 and you're likely to rev the snot out of it and shift at high RPMs and get really poor mileage because the old car has colored your perception about what you should be feeling at what point on your speedometer.

Just another variable to add to the "driving style" list...

BillK,

Very true. I failed to mention the car's gearing as variables in MPG's along with the other factors.

BTW, I always look forward to your enlightening and refreshing posts. I always enjoy reading your logical opinions, insights, and factual statements.

P.S. Have you notice recently how many threads on this forum closed immediately after your posted? LOL! Lately, when I see you that you posted on a thread, I quickly get there in fear of it closing.

Does this bother anyone else?
 

I got bored and did a comparison of cost of gas for a entire year between the RX-8 and the 350z(ya ya I know) based on what looks to be the average for the RX-8 at the moment.

Figure your gonna drive around 12000 miles a year.
Figure the cost of premium is $1.70(at least where I am at the moment) and figure 18mpg for the RX-8 and 21mpg for the 350z.

It comes out to be a yearly cost of $1133 for the RX-8 and $971 for the 350Z. A difference of $162, now this really isn't much in the scheme of things but damn with the latest official HP drop from Mazda how the hell is this happening. I realize the rotary isn't nearly as gas efficient as a piston engine but come on. There's a now big difference in HP. I guess I'm just a little dissappointed.

Now don't flame me if I can't afford gas I shouldn't be driving a sports car crap. I can easily afford gas, but I just hate wasting money if I don't have too.

I'm not going to flame you, but it is what it is man. I mean it's just one of those things that you think about before you buy the car. If that $162 makes that big of a difference to you, then get the Z. It's a nice car too.

I realize it is what it is. Actually I was gonna buy a Z till I got lucky and the Head Tech at a local Mazda dealer got in their first RX-8 and was taking it for a break in drive. He let me tag along in the passenger seat with him. And just doing that I fell in the love with the car. I guess I'm just trying to figure out how the hell the car gets this bad gas consumption. *Shrugs* Probably gonna still gonna buy the RX-8, but damn if getting married don't suck up a ton of money :( Gonna make me wait a few more months.

Makes you wonder really if by detuning it for emissions reasons, they actually decreased the fuel efficiency thereby nullifying the point.

On one tank I saw just a little over 12 mpg. Granted I did it on purpose. Accelerating hard all the time. The thing is the tank after that which I did not drive hard on was just a little over 13 mpg. My two worst tanks were right n a row.

worst about 12.7 best 20.5

I'm another person who does virtually all city driving (i.e., drive a block, stop, drive a block, stop), driving moderately, with no one in the car (and no jet ski) and I'm averaging about 12-13 mpg with high octane fuel.

My worst was 11.1 and best was 23.8. The former, fairly agressive city driving, the latter pure speedlight highway over 230 miles.

I have an AT with 2350 miles. I've been getting around 15 mpg in mixed driving. Best was 20 mpg on a day trip with all highway. Hopefully, it will get better.

best 17.2, worst 15.8.

I drive quickly but its not like I am hitting the red line everyday (hardly ever) or something. I do hope it gets better 1500 miles so far.

ok i just got 131 miles on 12.5 gallons. my MPG is getting worse. not really doing that much agressive driving though it was 100% city.

wow, sorry to hear that
at 12.5 I just got 190 when orange light came on
not much better for me

I'm still on my first tank of gas, I do a lot of city driving, and still learning the nuances of working the MT so I'm expecting to see some fairly dismal numbers. However, I knew this going into the deal and figured it was just part of the cost of ownership. I do appreciate the theme of the thread as it's valuable to be able to compare any performance parameter with the experience of others. I get smoother by the hour on the MT so I expect things to improve. I'll post again after my next 2 or 3 fill-ups.

Man jeez, that bites. 10.5 mpg? It's gotta be the temperature & 100% city.

Fill 'er up & take the PA turnpike to Harrisburg & back (or something) to burn up a tank on-highway. See if you still can get 22 mpg or so...worth the $25 ?