tylerdurden

In the dry, if you have decent tires, you should be able to drive very, very hard before feeling any DSC engagement. This is on the street, that is. I'll turn it off for fun runs, but if conditions are good, there's really no need, 175whp isn't going to overwhelm good tires in a car as balanced as the RX8. In the wet, it's a totally different story, and a much more entertaining one at that.

Steve Dallas

Agreed on all counts. I even leave it on at the track sometimes, because my lap times are consistently faster with it on.

I leave it on at all times on the street now. The decision to turn it off cost me ~3,000 one day. You never know what is about to pull out in front of you.

Alixalman

A little off topic. I turned mine off. How do i turn it on ?
What Does dsc off light on tachy means ,

40w8

Same here; I track my RX8, and a BMW X1 and find that traction control only interferes when you've driven badly or suspension needs some alignment, or tweaking.

Now if you are the drifting sort, that's an art form not fastest way around track except maybe in extreme hp car with racing tire.

Staykota

Not once do I ever use it, I like to enjoy destroying my tires and having fun.

Jarrell Williams

iTrader: (1)

My car doesn't have tcs, abs, or anything. None of the cars I've owned has had them.

Reoze

I used to turn it off all the time too. Until I hit a patch of oil on a turn one day and did a 180 into the side of a curb going about 40. Luckily it didn't quite cost me $3000, but it was enough to realize that it serves a purpose.

Few months later I was driving through D.C during that blizzard we had around 2009/2010. I blew a tire out, in the snow, (with summer tires) going about 80-85. The TCS kicked in immediately and I didn't feel a thing at all. The only indication I had that something went wrong was the traction lights on the dash.

wannawankel

Reoze is right - the second time I turned off the TCS, I wound up 180 in a sharp dogleg to the left.I never hit anything and reacted based upon my advanced motorcycle training (what to do in a skid - cars version). TCS has been on ever since. It's only a minor power boost when I'm on a straight-away anyway.

wankelbolt

iTrader: (21)

I think you have another "unicorn", IIRC? You have ABS. Unless you have physically removed or bypassed it.

Jarrell Williams

iTrader: (1)

Oh, yes I have abs. But nothing else. I haven't locked up the brakes yet, so I don't know what that will feel like

Loki

iTrader: (1)

I find this surprising. I keep it on for the first couple of sessions after a long hiatus (like winter), but it clearly creates understeer when I'm trying to power out of some specific turns or on a (code brown) off-camber dusty high speed turn.

BlackStealth

iTrader: (3)

you guys are a bunch of pansies or you don't know how to drive properly. wow. It's only 180-190 whp and you are people are losing control? Go get a Prius and drive it on the edge to match your driving skill level.

And to those that are all "go take it to a track" - take your head out of your *** you little safety nanny. Go cruise elsewhere in some American crap and pretend to be better than everyone else.

Reoze

This guys got great advice ^

I suppose air bags are for bitches too?

Actually, you got me thinking. I'm going to take it to the next level. No brakes.

wankelbolt

iTrader: (21)

He's not entirely wrong, but he is being a dick about it.

And I thought Canadians were supposed to be so polite?

BlackStealth

iTrader: (3)

tough love my friends. Deal with it.

... and actually, yes. I do believe ABS is for pussies - i'd love to disable that if I could as I have been in a few incidents that it has hindered my ability to safely control the car. Just drive it in winter time and everyone will know what I mean (car is way too sensitive in terms of ABS kicking in and TCS gets you no where fast)

wankelbolt

iTrader: (21)

You can disable ABS. I think there is a dedicated fuse for ABS/DSC you can pull. Or disconnect a wheel sensor. Or disconnect the electrical connection from the ABS pump.

I've considered adding a switch to the dash to disable the ABS on the track. One reason is so I can better learn the limits of the car. Primary reason is when I screw up and go both-feet-in, ABS prevents the wheels from locking. Locking the wheels means the car will travel in a straight, predictable line. Not locking-up usually means the car comes shooting back across the track and may move erratically depending on which way the front wheels are pointing and if the driver is still trying to steer. That's not good.

Don't know if this will embed a video, but it's my recent screw-up from the following car. Tried to save it like a rookie and sailed back across the track because of ABS. Even at the end it still wouldn't lock the wheels and it started rolling backwards swinging the nose back onto the track!
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B7l...hsTnI4NDA/view

Reoze

The point is, that it's there if you need it. He's not entirely wrong in the sense that you shouldn't need it. Maybe with the follow on that if you're doing autocross and you're using it, you're probably an idiot. That's about where it stops.

I'd also go as far to argue that if your attitude about things is if you spin your car out you're a "*****" who needs to learn how to drive. Then you've probably not driven too much yourself. There are plenty of things on the road that are completely out of your control. In fact, almost all of the scenarios described in this thread, were just that.

On a side note, I don't think I've ever actually tripped the ABS on either of my RX8s.

wankelbolt

iTrader: (21)

Then you are definitely a "pansy".

But seriously, if you only drive on the street and aren't a "spirited" driver, that doesn't surprise me. I do think you should find a safe spot and intentionally brake hard enough to get into ABS to 1) make sure it works, and 2) understand what happens when it activates. Easier in the wet, but do it in the dry so you can feel the full effect.

If you do track or autocross your 8 and never activated the (working) ABS, then I think you should follow BlackStealth's auto purchasing advice.

Reoze

No I haven't tracked it. The driving is plenty "spirited". Anything else I say beyond that would just be pointless arguing.

ASH8

OK watching this, enough of the insults rotor heads...

Steve Dallas

I think the Series 2 DSC algorithms are different than those in the Series 1. In my car, it stays completely out of the way, until slip angle is too rapidly realized. I assume it makes little corrections here and there to are too subtle to feel, and those are what makes my lap times slightly better. In any case, induced understeer in your car vs. mine could simply be differences in setup. My car is biased toward oversteer.

Awww... Isn't it cute!

My Miata, which is my main track toy, has no ABS and no traction control. Come on out, and I"ll take you on with all of 95 whp. We'll see who needs to learn to drive.

When I wrecked my car, a Prius pulled out of a parking lot into my lane, as I was turning left at relatively high speed. I corrected to miss him, and went into snap oversteer, which spun me into a curb. There was no amount of knowing how to drive that was going to help there. (OK, knowing how to drive in BlackStealth's granny panties might have saved me.) I was a passenger at that point. That cost me a rim, tire(s), toe link, camber link, end link, wheel hub and bearing, brake line, half shaft, damper, and top hat. Having left DSC turned on probably would have prevented that spin.

As an aside, my car has an aggressive track alignment, which causes a car to be rather unstable on street tires in street conditions.

I'll happily leave my DSC on, knowing better.

40w8

You tell em Steve!

My better track day was at HPR with slight drizzle making summer ice first run.

The next 2 runs were drying , and 4th dry.

What a day to learn your car!

Almost no fast cars could approach me, and most were in the ditch.

With that DSC all left on, when I was coming around a normal 90 mph sweeper at only 70 mph I could see I was gonna spin.

I eased off gas, held steering straight or slightly into skid, and I could feel separate wheels getting brakes in different orders, and it straightened out.

If I drive car right in dry, I don't set it off much.

I can nail some corners just like anybody else, but a real track guy can nail them all, all day long.

I leave it on in my BMW X1 on track for same reason.

Lookalike

Yea, I'm getting the same behavior from the DSC, although I hesitate to call it understeer. It usually happens when I power out of slow corners, applying more throttle and reducing steering input. Even through it's far from drifting or anything, the car seems to pickup on the weight shifting and kills some of the power. I hate it because I always think I broke something until sure enough, I see the DSC light flashing at me... That's why I hesitate to call it understeer, because although it does stop the power pivoting the car, it also scrubs enough speed that the car ultimately turns just fine.
I still leave the DSC on the first run until the tires are warm, then turn it off for the day.

As for regular road driving, I don't see why I would turn it off... I never drive with the intention of going sideways, so if the DSC does come on, it means either I made a mistake, or the roads are too slippery. It doesn't mean I rely on it, it's just an additional tool that's there just in case.

vince_rx8

I've only had the car two days and had the back step out after hitting big puddle and i **** myself. I'll leave it on for a while while i get used to it. It's my first quick(ish) car i've owned. I ride motorbikes normally and i ride a 2008 cbr1000rr, before anyone calls me a *****

lOOkatme

when I have been running the time attack series I turn off the dsc and run faster times. The car at the limit in 1-2nd gear is pretty forgiving if you set the damping right. My car is stock but with ohlins DFV 9/6 and 18x9.5 245/40/18 tires R-S3. I have spun the car 3 times now. I spun it in the rain, and in the dry twice. coming around full throttle and hit something slick and spun the rear end around and did a 540. I also changed the damping in the front to 10 clicks off full stiff, rear was at 7 clicks, front used to be at 7 clicks to try something new. tires were cold and spun the car around pretty easy.

Typically with the DSC off and with 7 clicks front and rear and tires warm I can be pretty generous on the brakes and be able to slalom while on the brakes without losing the rear (tightening slalom section). you can also trail brake with the rear almost coming around on you and you hit the accelerator good to catch the rear end. This works well on some tighter or J corners corners, but the car is actually pretty easy to drive fast IMO and communicates well what it is going to do before it does it. I have slight understeer in my set up and it allows me to push the car hard under throttle which is neutral to oversteerish. I can drive hard and deep under brakes without losing the rear and if you enter a little too fast and start losing the rear around a corner you can get back into it and catch the rear.

I actually really like how this car drives with no aid. Even with my 5th time ever going I placed 3rd out of 34 in my class with r-s3's and the two who beat me run at solo nationals at autoX and are on RE-71R tires which I think are better than mine. I am trying to learn as quickly as possible and continue to develop my skills. Will be doing some track days here shortly to get a lot more seat time. I don't think driving on the street you can push the car this hard without having some serious negative consequences.