Traction Control Questions!
 

Hey you guys!

So about a month ago I've been getting into drifting. I've already known the ins-and-outs about these topics for as long as I can remember, but I seem to lack a DSC button (which prohibits my progress a LOT.) :icon_no2: Since I don't have a button, my only choice is to remove the fuse but if I am correct it also disables the ABS. I haven't driven a car without ABS before and I was concerned mainly with how much it affects my braking (wouldn't wanna lock up at an apex would we?) :rofl: On another note, one of my friends has already told me that ABS doesn't necessarily make a difference and that it only kicks in deep into the brake pedal. To top that I also haven't driven a car without TCS before, let alone with 232hp.

I was thinking of removing the fuse and just driving 'normally' until I get used to it. I've only driven about 1300mi on my 8 so far so that also is a factor.

What do you guys think, aye or nay? How different does the car 'feel' with ABS/TCS/DSC off?

If you lack the button then you shouldn't have tcs or dsc. I know with my 09 sport(would be the base model for previous years I think) I lack the button and have no tcs/dsc that I know of. Maybe it was different for previous years but it would make sense for you not to have them if you lack the button.

It doesn't interact with the abs.

I always thought that all cars made on and after 2004 will be equiped with ESC or DSC.

Forgot to mention I have an 07 model. I need to double check on which trim I have. But even if I had no button, shouldn't the tcs and dsc lights turn on to show I have them off?

When I clutch kick, I feel the car wanting to cut off engine power (pedal to the floor and rpms are being 'held back') and the sound of the tires spinning is not continuous, but is stuttered. I tried testing during a burnout and the same situation occurs.

With no ABS, you will not notice anything different about the brakes behavior except during a panic stop or stopping in slippery conditions. That being said, If you don't have a TCS button, that means you don't have TCS to disable.

Disconnecting the ABS will do nothing for you to help in drifting. I don't suggest doing it. There is no good to achieve by doing it. Its really just a safety feature.

I could be mistaken, but I think if you don't have TCS that also means you have an open differential. Someone please correct me if I'm wrong. If so, that's no good for drifting.

2007 Mazda RX-8 DSC looks to be optional on the sport and standard on everything else. there should be a button if it has it, along with the light.

i'm pretty certain that every "sport suspension" car has a limited slip, so that means everything 04-08 with 18" wheels has LSD. at least in the US.

Alright so I double checked and I have a touring trim. There's no way I have an open diff. If I don't have tcs then why would there a fuse in its position?

You would know if you were drifting with Dsc on. It sounds and feels like youre driving over brick driveway. At least thats how it is for me, but i have k-sport coils so it possibly could be different with stock suspension. As for your diff, look at your tire marks after drifting. 1 line = open diff. 2 lines = LSD. And the dsc fuse is there for the ABS i believe. If not someone may have just put it there because they thought it belonged there.

Yeah I think I have DSC on when I do. I took her out not too long ago and the sound of the tires skidding is stuttered. I was thinking of getting the same coilovers actually! :lol: The tire marks for me are very faint, but there are two which confirms I have an LSD.

So correct me if I am wrong, but that means I have no TCS, but I do have DSC. If this happens to be the case, is it necessary to disable it? I've been getting mixed reviews about whether I should or not.

Based on the Spec Deck for 2007, I'd say that if you can't have TCS without DSC and vice versa.

If you lack the button, you lack both systems.

However, DCS/TCS was standard on models with the Touring trim. If you genuinely don't have the button then you may not have the Touring trim. It's possible that somebody removed the button and replaced it with a blank but I can't come up with a situation where that would make any sense.

Who told you that your car has the Touring trim level?

Based on the KBB, the document says the car is a touring trim model. I also found it very strange that I didn't have a DSC toggle button. I might experiment tomorrow and remove the ABS/DSC fuse in the engine bay fuse compartment and see if that makes a difference.

It won't make a difference.
Removing the ABS is just dumb. Unless you don't know how to brake it's completely unintrusive.

KBB is not a sure way to confirm Trim level. KBB shows all 2004 and 2005 RX-8s as being Base/Shinka. Doesn't make sense does it?

- If you have TCS, you have DSC. They are a joint system when installed in the RX-8.
- They were only included in RX-8s in the Touring and Grand Touring trims/packages
- If you have that system, there is a button to the lower left of the steering wheel, above the driver's left knee (assuming left hand drive), in the same panel as the dash light dimming wheel
- If you do not have that system, the spot where the button would be is a blank filler panel that doesn't move.
- All RX-8s have ABS
- Disabling the ABS is only possible by pulling the fuse
- Disabling the ABS means that when you slam on the brakes, the tires will lock up and you lose directional control while you slide.
- ABS is not active during any part of normal drifting
- Nothing of what you have described has confirmed what trim level you have
- If you have a moonroof, fog lights, and cloth interior, you have a Touring. If you are missing the moonroof and fog lights, you have a "base" Sport. If you have leather, moonroof, heated seats you have Grand Touring.
- The presence of an LSD is a given since you have a MT. Only base ATs with 16" rims didn't have the LSD. Get Manual or any higher trim and you have an LSD
- Driving without TCS/DSC is much like driving a car. Interestingly enough it will seem like driving your prior car(s) that didn't have TSC/DSC.
- TCS detects rear wheel over-spin in relation to the front wheels and will cut engine power, rather harshly actually, and usually a bit too much. In some of the worst ice conditions I have to disable TCS to get moving, since the TCS module can't feather the throttle with fine enough detail. When this engages, it's like you suddenly took your foot off the throttle for about a second. RPMs plummet, and moving the throttle pedal within that second or has no response from the engine
- At no point does TCS interfere with 'normal driving' as long as you have the same rotational circumference between your front tires vs rear tires.
- The DSC system compares wheel speeds at all 4 corners along with steering input (and possible lateral G sensors) to determine if the car is starting to spin, and will engage the brakes at 1 or more corners according to internal formula in order to bring the car under control. DSC will not apply the brakes hard enough to completely stop the wheel, and will not 'self trigger' the ABS system for that one wheel.
- The DSC system can trigger easily enough that in slippery conditions it can indeed come on when it doesn't really need to yet. On dry pavement I have never known it to come on until I have lost grip in one or more tires.
- The studdering you are seeing on the pavement is most likely due to wheel hop, which is usually due to failing diff bushings. Wheel hop is dangerous to your diff, the rear axles, and your rear subframe. The car's frame and drivetrain back there isn't designed for that kind of abuse and stuff will start breaking.

Mine is not base?! That's sucks! :mad:

Wheel hop can also be cause by the right combination of tires, tire pressure, pavement and shock absorber health. I got silly amounts of wheel hop launching during autocrosses on concrete surfaces with nearly new OE tires and shocks. Swapped out the shocks and tires and I found I could dial it out with various combinations of tire pressure and shock stiffness.

Thanks for the input, that was what I needed to know. I guess I'm way more along in my progress that I had thought.

I'm still in the process of getting wheels/tires and coilovers so hopefully that will make a difference. I might invest in a 2 way LSD and a stronger clutch somewhere in the future as well.

Btw k sport coils are pretty damn good imo. Havent let me down at all. I used to have a s13 with D2 coils and after about a year of driving they felt shitty. Definately go for the k-sports

You don't need coilovers to begin drifting. A 2 way lsd may be nice.
The stronger clutch is not needed.

Coilovers go a long way and change the feel of the ride. While its true you don't need coilovers to drift, they are a big plus. I'm all for getting a better clutch so it can handle the stress of clutch kicking. There's a lot I haven't done yet for my build, slowly though.

Unless you go with real coilovers all you're going to do is ruin the car's handling.
The stronger clutch really isn't needed.
It's your car, ruin it however you please.