Test drove a couple of Audis today...
 

...and it made me appreciate me RX8 a WHOLE lot more!! :love:

I've had my RX8 for about 3 1/2 years now, which is about six months longer than I normally keep a car. Lately, I've been getting the itch to get something new.

My biggest complaints with the RX8 are (1) gas mileage (2) road noise and (3) lack of space (#4 would be the crappy Bose stereo, but I could actually rectify that problem without changing cars). This made me start looking for cars that are a bit bigger than the RX8 but still get good gas mileage and are more refined. Which lead my to the Audi A3 and A4.

I had a chance to go test drive one of each today, and I was *not* impressed.

Let's start with the A4 first. I drove a 6-speed manual with quattro. The clutch/shifter combination on that car is absolutely horrible! The clutch feels like it has about two feet of travel to it. That was especially annoying because the brake pedal had me screeching to a halt after being depressed about two inches. The combination of the long-throw clutch and the super sensitive brakes meant it was hard to find a seating position where I could use both effectively.

And the shifter! Jesus, I'd forgotten how awesome the short-throw shifter on the RX8 is. The piece of crap on the A4 quickly reminded me. It felt very vague, the shift knob was huge and awkward, and the long throws made me feel like I was suddenly part of the Yale sculling team.

As for the suspension, that was disappointing, too. It was a bad combination of feeling rolly when turning yet it didn't absorb the imperfections in the road that well. I was thinking to myself "Well, maybe getting the sport suspension would fix that". Then, after my test drive was over, I found out that *was* the sport suspension! Dear Lord, I can only imagine how horrible the normal suspension must be.

The A3 was a bit better. It has the S-tronic dual clutch transmission, so I didn't have Audi's terrible clutch and shifter to deal with. Unfortunately, it didn't have paddle shifters (they're an option, though), which meant I had to manually shift up and down using the floor-mounted shifter. Which, frankly, kind of defeats the purpose of a dual-clutch tranny, IMHO. It just had the base suspension, which actually seemed better than the sport suspension on the A4. The interior, though, was a huge let down. Audi is famous for their interiors, but this one felt pretty cheap. The material on the dash wasn't as nice as the RX8 and the radio/climate controls had a real bargain-basement look to it--especially compared to the RX8's elegant piano black center stack. Maybe sitting in an A3 with an upgraded interior would have helped--I dunno. It sure didn't feel like a $30K car, though.

I have to say, I was pretty shocked, overall. I used to have an Audi TT which drove great and had a beautifuly designed interior with great fit and finish. I was expecting one of these cars would make me want to trade in my RX8 on the spot, but not even close!

So, when I was leaving the parking lot, I asked my RX8 to forgive me. I think she did, because she was hitting 9K RPMs pretty happily on the way home.

Thanks - I've been meaning to ride in a newer Audi recently, but this review made me change my mind. Especially because of the shitty shifter in the A4 - which is quite disappointing.

Just remember the a4 and a3 are bargain audis. If you really wanted to get an audi personally I would look for a good used s4 thats similarly priced. Still though, it probably won't feel as good as your 8....

FYI, when they designing the RX8, the guy who approved the car was also a racing driver. I bet the guy who approved the A4 was not one.

As others have mentioned, you're comparing entry level luxury sedans/wagons that are "sporty" to a purpose built car like the RX-8. If cars like the A3 and A4 handled like the 8, I think a few more of us would have bought one of those instead of the 8. Aside from not being the fairest comparison, I'd say your evaluation in terms of performance was rather accurate and kind of what I would expect from the cars. I would say that you must have become too used to the feel of the 8's shifter, because I've test driven the A4 and it seemed average to above average... just not exceptional. The pedal comments seem weird. It seems like you would just need to become adjusted a little... I didn't have any issues with the one I test drove. The brake was more sensitive than I was used to, but once you realize that it shouldn't take that long to get used to.

I'd strongly disagree with your views on the interior. Even as their entry level cars, I think the interior materials are much better than on the 8. The A3 is admittedly more plain looking than the 8, but the overall quality seems better on the A3 and A4. Another important thing to consider is how it will hold up over time. I took extremely good care of my 8, but it was still showing a fair bit of wear after 5 years. I currently own a 2000 S4, and it's only a little bit worse than my 8 was. I don't expect the 8 would hold up as well after 10 years and 160k miles. My 8 had quite a few creaks and rattles from the first day I owned it. The A4 I test drove was significantly quieter.

Basically... I think you discovered what aspects were more important to you and matched your tastes better. I wouldn't necessarily say that one is better than the other, just meant for different needs and wants. My personal preference would also lean towards the 8 when compared to the A4 or A3. Performance is simply more important and neither of those cars quite offer the performance I would want. I would definitely chose those cars for a more leisurely daily driver type car. They're slightly more comfortable than the 8 and offer more space.

a3 and a4's market is totally different than the rx8, 2 are sedan and the other is sport car. if im looking for something witha more comfy ride, i would get a3 or 4 for sure.

A4 with a 2.0T? Go look up "cam follower".... have fun with that.

After I've heard about the jicky dealer network shaking down customers, and Audi striving to be the new Mercedes, I don't think I can afford any Audi.

Our Mazda network sounds like a dream in comparison.

Mazda with a rotary? Go look up "apex seals"....have fun with that.

Fixed, thanks to 8 Maniac

My brother used to have an Audi A4 and traded it with a Volkswagen Passat. He misses the Audi A4 when he traded it in. He wanted an A4 again, but he got a Subaru Impreza instead. He still has the Impreza until now. Who knows, he might traded it in with an A4 next time.

I would have said apex seals, but it's the same idea.

I dunno, maybe your 2000 S4 was built better than the new ones, because neither car I was in impressed me as having an interior befitting a $40K car. And as for squeaks and rattles, from what I've been seeing on the Audi boards, that is a pretty common complaint about those cars as they age.

Oh, I was fulling expecting the Audis to not be up to the level of the RX8, but I sure wasn't expecting HOW MUCH worse they would be. If I was willing to sacrifice that much driving enjoyment for practicality, I'd just go buy myself a Ford or something and save thousands over the Audis. It was not really clear to me where my money was going with those cars.

And one other thing I forgot to rant about was the steeing feel--it was as numb as if the steering column had been injected with novacaine. The RX8 communicates so much better--you real feel like you know exactly what is going on at the connection between the tires and the road (of course, you also get to feel every little bump and imperfection, but I guess that's the price you pay).

Maybe I'll go check out BMW next. I don't think I've ever actually driven one, so it will be interesting to see if they live up to their reputation.

Yeah, that would of been better. Let me see if i can still edit that. Thanks for the idea.

my old roommate has a 2005.5 (basically a 2006) S4, and it's a whole different ball game than the A3 / A4's. It has a very high quality interior, a great shifter, and is pretty outrageously fast. Also, if there is snow on the ground - he can still go blasting around town while my RX-8 sits in the driveway and I drive my truck.

I think you should go back to the dealership and try some of the S line cars instead, since I feel like that would be a more fair comparison with our cars which are not designed to be "entry level luxury", they are more "mid level performance".

just my $.02

Yeah, but an S4 is, like, $50K! That's a bit out of my price range (and that's not even taking into account the insurance, which I'm sure ain't cheap).

And I'm not confident enough in Audi's quality to buy used.

That's fair, new they are rather expensive - He bought his car about a year and a half ago for $23k and it had just under 50k miles. So far he has had to put about $600 into it (outside of normal maintenance) and he drives it hard. He also bought it from a friend so he knew the majority of its history.

I think if you can get a certified used , 2006-2007 S4, you wouldn't be disappointed...

BMW M1 - Starts at 46,000 but can talk that down quite a bit and find some pretty good deals on them. 50/50 weight distribution etc.

Drive one, they're pretty slick for a decent price imo.

Are you talking about the iconic BMW M1 from the late 1970's or the current BMW 1M? There's a huge difference and I assume you're talking about the 1M in which case I would challenge you to find one or an open allocation in the US below MSRP. Most of them are actually selling a few thousand above MSRP because they're so hard to find.

1M BMW - Pretty good deals as in used. There's three in my area with under 15,000 miles all 2011's

In Sussex, NJ. As far as New - there's 2 sitting on the lot a mile from my school.

Would you mind sharing which dealership has 2 sitting on the lot? Also I'm from around North NJ and I haven't seen any used 1M's for sale in the area. There's a lot of people that would be interested in these potential 5 1M's and would be very grateful if you could share more details. =)

Oh, man, where do I start?

(1) A M coupe, like the S4, is about $50K new. Is that what you consider a "decent price"? :scared:

(2) The rear seat is, amazingly, less useful than the one in the RX-8 (I'm looking for something *more* practical, remember?). :p:

(3) The color choices are rather limited and not very inspiring. (Black or pumpkin orange? Is it a Halloween car?)


Now, a 328xi...that might be worth a look.

Or maybe I could save some green and check out a Subaru Legacy GT. Hmm...decisions, decisions.

My sister had subaru Tribeca and she have few problems (bought it new) than she trade it for Legacy and already have some problems and the car is not even 2 years old (she bought it new). My friend few years back bought WRX he loved the car it was not STi version and after few months he found rust on his rear door didnt bother him much but still it was a new car maybe a piece of rock hit it and chip the paint then rust.
They like gas too :)

what your not taking in to account is our cars are like race cars hint the short-throw shiftier, the A4 is like a jetta its just a car so you cant compare them, the A4 is just A car.. A nice car but a car. The brakes on every Audi are different the only real thing i don't like about them so ill give you that one. But the A3 is just the next little bit more sporty still not a race car... its a traffic beater. I've driven all types of Audi's from the amazing allroad to a v10 manual R8 and auto convertible v8 R8 and the best thing about every one of them are there interiors no matter what price its always nice and the power the A5 is the only one that needs more power but there's the S5 for that so there really isn't a slow Audi one other reason to buy one!

now your probably thinking well why didn't you get an Audi, and that's because my dad bought my 8 and i just wanted a RX8 !! but my next car is going to be most likely a Audi rs6 wagon or a E63 AMG wagon.. i love Mercedes to!!! so make sure if your comparing car you compare cars that are alike..



o and unless your buying a WRX STI Don't buy a Subaru i have two friends with fully loaded out backs and they suck.....

look in to the BMW 328xi there grate and look at the Mercedes C class with 4 MATIC if your still looking for a car....

I share your sentiment.

I do not get emotionally attached to vehicles and am no fanboy of anything that's just an object, in reality.

But after test driving literally 15+ cars over the last couple of years, including quite a few 'premium' ones, in contemplation of replacing the 8, I walked away feeling that new cars are definitely becoming more and more like fashion accessories, with cheapened bits of what one can't see (everything is built to a price point), in an effort to slather lipstick on those bits that people do see (and touch) on a test drive (or for the first few months of ownership).

Not a single one of these new cars could come close to matching the 8 in terms of balance of handling, feedback, refinement and goodness brought about the mechanical bits one can't see on a dealer's lot.

Cars are becoming more and more like fashion accessories, or the ever yearly churning of 'smart phones' and iGadgets.

And quite frankly, it makes me sick just thinking about it.