TEST DRIVE & A ? FOR AUTO OWNERS
 

I went for my test drive of the automatic RX8 tonight. I was really looking forward to it and brought my 12 yr old so I could see how much room he'd have for those times he had to ride in the back. Unfortunately, I left rather underwhelmed. I've narrowed my search to the RX8 and Cooper S, both with autos, but I hadn't driven either. The RX8 was the first of the two I've taken for a test drive.

First, having nothing to do with the car, the salesman knew NOTHING about the car. I asked him if the increased output in the '06 was due to changes to the engine or a result of the new hp measurements. His response, "they changed how the engine puts the power down to the rear". What the HECK does that mean? Of course, when we first met, he greeted me with a, "Sup?"

I was happy to feel the pep the car had with 3 full sized people in the car (my son is 5'11") and the a/c on. My old 12A RX7 was decidedly slow with 2 people and a/c on. The suspension felt nice and taut and the steering weighting felt good. I didn't find the brakes grabby at all despite posts I've read on that. I was surprised by the lack of headroom for me even with the seat lowered all the way down and I'm only 5'11". It was tight. The car had a sunroof so I'm sure that takes room away, but I didn't think it should be that tight. The transmisison is what really left me disappointed. That was my fear. I can't drive manual due to my knee and I was hoping this new generation of autos with some driver input would be a good development.

Here's what I experienced and my question to auto owners out there: What I expected from the tranny was actually very little. All I expected was that it would respond to MY inputs without question unless doing so would harm the engine, like if I asked it to downshift if it would cause overrevving. Once fully warmed, I drove at 40 mph. I was in 4th and changed to 3rd and then 2nd. It was fine. I then went back up to 4th. Fine again. Then, while still at 40 mph in 4th, I quickly shifted 2nd. The car said NO! The digital display quickly showed 3rd and then 2nd, but the transmission stayed in 3rd and the display went from 2nd to 3rd. I shifted to 4th and tried again. Nope. Did it a third time and this time it DID go to 2nd. Tried it again and it stayed in 3rd. I turned to the salesman and asked what was going on. He said he didn't know. He watched the dash display go down to 2nd but then go back to 3rd since the tranny only shifted down to 3rd. Now, I never pressed on the accelerator at all. I kept the pedal in the same spot doing 40 mph. Is this normal? It shifted fine if I went down with 2nd with maybe 2 seconds between shifts, but if I asked for a quick pop down to 2nd, it refused 3 out of 4 times? I only test drove this one car so maybe it's peculiar to this one? Perhaps a software glitch? I was just really ticked because I like the car (as much as you can before driving it)and my only concern was the auto trans. I was so disgusted that it wouldn't do what it was asked to, we just drove back to the dealership and I left. Maybe overreacting a bit, but I'm really disappointed. For a car that lists at almost 30k and claims to be so sporty, I'm very surprised. Once I drive the Cooper, I'll have to drive the RX8 one more time.

So, auto owners, can you duplicate my issue? I'm hoping that it was just a weird thing to this car and not a common "problem".

Thanks for any reply,

Ron Brooks

If you're at all into performance,

DON'T GET AN AUTO RX-8!

Seriously, it is as wrong as getting an auto porsche. Actually even more because the rx8 shifts better and has little torque and the auto engine is even weaker and on and on and on....

If you need auto, get sth with torque and a good automatic. Bmw, mb, g35 etc.

As a previous auto owner (I've now converted to the 6 speed MT) I would highly advise that if you must buy the auto, wait for the 06' 212 hp 6 speed auto trans. The 4 speed AT shifts quite slowly, even in manumatic mode, and if you're rpms are too high, it'll limit the gears that you can shift into (like you experienced). I also found the 2nd gear to be quite tall. I would imagine that the 6 speed AT version with an additonal 15 hp will be worth waiting for if your interested in the AT.

Couple things. The 2006 AT is different because it has a the "high power" engine (6 ports per rotor as opposed to the old 4) and it has a 6 speed tranmission with different gearings. In addition, keep in the mind the HP rating change. In 2006, you have the AT at 212 and the MT at 232. Not a massive difference, but the MT revs to 9000 instead of 7500. That's the reason for the HP difference and the 0-60 times. I haven't driven the 2006 AT (I don't think anyone has), but I have a feeling that they're going to deliver quite a bit more punch because of the gearing ratios. That's my guess though. You'll need to drive one yourself for sure.

As far as your shifting situation goes, I think I can give you some info. I'm assuming you were in manumatic mode (if not then my theory might be wrong). Anywho, I have a manumatic, and the absolute number one thing that people don't get is that you really need to hold down the gas while you're shifting gears. It's not like a manual. If you floor it, let off the gas, shift, and then floor it again it'll confuse the crap out of the car. Sometimes, you don't wanna be on the gas, like if you're entering a turn, but pre-selecting the proper gear shouldn't be a problem. Also, it has safeties to not let you downshift to a gear that will make you redline or upshift to a gear that will make the revs too low. As far as your situation, I think it was a case of confusing the car.

I know that might all seem weird, but manuamatics aren't manuals. You can't just arbitraily shift all the time and expect it to do what a manual would do. The car's computer has to adjust to how you shift and drive in general. The longer you drive it consistently, the better it will get.

Take all this with a grain of salt. I don't have an RX-8, but I suspect it's similar to mine. Not sure if this helps, but good luck with your decision.

edit: Forgot to mention that I did test drive a 2005 AT and noticed that the shifting is a bit different from my car. Sometimes it didn't do exactly what I wanted (e.g. - didn't downshift right away when I asked it to). My current car had the same exact problem when I first got it and it was just a matter of getting used to it and the car getting used to me. Again, I can't speak for the long term use of the manumatic on the RX-8, but I do use mine a lot (not for long periods of time, just here and there for downshifts) and it took some getting used to to gauge what I was doing and how the car was responding.

i own an auto and i am happy with it. the auto version of the 8 is slow but as long as you keep the rpms high you should be ok (just like the mt too) i have reaced my buddy's superchaged v6(210hp 310 tq) and it was pretty even. as for you question about downshifting i think is just an isolated issue bacause i can downshift as i want to with no problems. i do agree that the 2nd is tall because takes forever to reach the 8k rpms but if i were you and i had to get the auto i would wait to try the 06 (because of the tranny and the upgraded hp) good luck just remember that you cant go wrong with the 8 wheather you get the manual or the auto they are such a wonderful machines always fun and a pleasure to drive.just my .02 cents

I have never had an issue downshifting into 2nd. Even when I get on the freeway I will be going around 50MPH and am still able to downshift to 2nd albeit for a few seconds as I will be hitting the redline but the tranny doesn't shift into 3rd on it's own for me. but I usually drive the car in Manumatic mode most of the time so the computer is most likely trained for the way I drive.

Like the others have said wait for the 06 with the 6-speed I am sure it will make the AT more fun to drive.

I don't understand why with the high, smooth revving nature of the rotary, and the high RPM for peak torque, they don't fit a CVT transmission.

Try to hold out for the 2006 RX8 AT Sport package without Moonroof. And talk to a knowledgeable salesman- they do exist and make a world of difference.

I am assuming you are going to test drive the mini cooper S in AT. We owned a MT one for 1.5 years as soon as it came out. It is very fun but tiny and not peppy enough the novelty wore off. I'm pretty usre the AT RX8 is faster than the Cooper S AT. Also, I'm not sure if the interior has changed but it looks very plasticky and cheap inside with the speedo in the middle of the dash. The good thing is it is cheaper and better on gas.

I wonder if the gas mileage has improved in the 06 models despite the power increase. They must have the most up to date ecu and the new tranny should help. This may negate the effects of a higher priced 06' RX8 compared to an 05'. Good luck!

these type of posts are so hard to respond to .. its like talking to an islamic extremist and trying to tell them that to make his life better he just needs to let go of his views which to them is impossible

well .. anyways .. if you have issues with autos, which are bound to have those issues cause they're not telepathically intuitive than just get a manual and control the way you like it .. thats why its there

same with the salesman .. there's so much info out there that you can do your unbiased research on your own .. that way your biased salesman (sales is sales, they dont care whether they sell auto rx8 as performance cars or icecubes to eskimos) is only there to give you a decent price .. and if he cant you simply go to another one

5,11 12 year old .. can we all say hoops .. damn conratulations man .. but i dont see him ever being comfortable with your choices unless he steals the car out of the driveway when youre sleaping

geez guys, the man says he can't get an MT because of his knee, don't rub it in.

I don't own an RX-8... YET... so I can't give you my ownership comments, and I think you'll be pressed to find many AT owners :)

But, I can tell you that the automatic transmission has MORE torque than the Manual. The reason the new 06 engine makes more horsepower is because they've substituted the old 4-port de-rated engine in the pre '06 autos with the 6-port that has been used in all the manuals.

With regards to the cooper S, the guy that lives next to where I work has one and isn't happy with the car, it really lives up to the name mini, he's only 6 feet tall and he drives with the driver's seat up against the back seat. and if your 12-year-old is already 5'11" I think you won't be able to fit him in the back seat within a year. But then again, having been in a couple of RX-8s in all the seats, the rear space of that car isn't superb either, although it IS superior to the cooper's

drive another AT and let us know what you think. I'd sure be interested to know, not that I'd buy an automatic though.

Indeed. Though, I doubt many people telling him to get a manual, even read his post.

i dont get it? you guys make the auto 8 seem like a slug. yes compared to my 6mt its slower, and the powerban in the 6mt is longer, but me an my friend traded for a day and the auto 8 is perfect for daily driving... it also has some gusto to pass people when changing lanes and overpassing people.

i love my 6mt but its not like i catch a street race everyday that i would need to lay that power down. the auto 8, is good for someone who needs practical driving, etc.

Dont get the auto 8. At least not the 04-05, it's just not worthy of being called an 8. There, i said it.

What can I say, some cars/engines just dont belong with a slushbox.

by releasing an automatic version of a performance rotary, that totally killed the credibility of the series. Like we used to laugh at guys who had auto Supra's and guys who repeated switch from N to D on a slight hill to make it rock back and forth so others think they're driving a manual car.

Hey, FYI, nobody gives a shit what you think of the automatic transmission. The man said he cannot drive a manual because of an injury, he wants to hear from people who can tell him how the automatic functions, not that he needs to get a manual.

First, if anything killed the credibility of the series it was the lack of torque. Every magazine that ever published anything about the RX-8 complained about this. Most people who looked at the numbers or seriously considered an RX-8 looked at the MT numbers (some without realizing it). Just by releasing an automatic version didn't "kill" anything IMO.

Secondly, I do that N to D thing all the time and people think I'm super cool. So there.

Easy killer, i think most people are telling him to not bother getting an auto 8 and helping him make the decision.

The auto shifty clumsy, that's just the way it is. Get the mini cooper, although, good luck fitting your 5'11 son in the back

It's all about keeping the revs up to see the power. I have no trouble keeping up with other manual 8 owners when we are all driving together on cruises. Several have commented on that fact.. The difference between the cars is not as big as it seems. The whole thing has been blown out of proportion, half the people who slam the auto have never even driven one, they just pass on what they heard...

Never have had a problem downshifting to 2nd from 4th at 40 mph. I drive almost exclusively in manumatic mode. The shift delay can be annoying at times, however. Like others have said, if at all possible, wait for the 06 autos to come out before getting an 04 or 05 auto.

sorry off topic, :suspect: but weren't the auto Supra's nearly as fast as their MT counterpart!? I'm a Manual Transmission guy myself, and hate slushboxes, but I was under the impression that even the Auto Supra's were beasts :wiggle: and sorry buddy I haven'y even test driven an auto 8 so I can't offer any impressions...

I've been driving automatics for most of my life and never owned a stick shift until I shopped for a new car last may, when I found my 8. I had the option of getting an auto 8 but after doing my research, I'd rather learn and get used to shifting with a car like this. I would be giving up a large chunk of the fun if I went auto... now if it they had the same power output with a better tranny like the DSG/SMG then we wouldn't be giving the Auto 8s a lot of crap.
If Mazda only made 6spd's you auto guys/girls would get stick or learn how to drive them just so you can own this car. Buying an auto8 is only good for the looks but, you'll be better off getting an auto-something else, VW GTi or Audi A3's got fantastic trannies for around that price range of a loaded Auto8.

heres the deal...

1). when i had the auto 8, i never had a problem passing anyone up while switching lanes, etc. this is under normal driving conditions... like driving to work on the street and fwy.

2). yes, if your racing... this car will probably not have the performance "speed" to rock someone.

3). although its lacking the speed for drag racing the 8 feels still feels like a sports car because of its responsiveness on the road and stance, and its ability to go 7K rpm is high too compared to other cars.

4). paddle shifters are great. i would use this to either switch lanes to pass someone, etc. also a plus if your in traffic.

5). keeping the rpms high, pretty much makes it better than a normal auto car.

6). if you drag race this car wont cut it. if you autoX... this car may not cut it.

7). for practical reasons, yes... the auto 8 is a good car.

8). the auto 8, shifted pretty smooth... great response time, but there were times where i would shift from 2 to 3rd and it would over rev, but not more than half a sec. before it catches. compared to a buddys Saab Aero, its a fast shifting auto because in his car it takes a noticeable 2 sec or so... and loss of power.

10). drive another auto 8, maybe it was that car? not sure.

amen, there are so many people that go into a tirade everytime someone makes a choice on the MT/AT issue they dont agree with that every thread about tha AT (a decent proportion of RX-8s) that the thread immediately devolves into a pissing match between the two camps and especially the MT fanatics who by the sound of them would pass out if they didnt have their hand on a stick 24 hours a day and act as if they are speeding around challenging every ride on the road to a manhood contest with a race.

Sheesh...yes yes its not as fast foot to the floor...we KNOW already...there are 100 threads like this in the first 5 pages that debate the issue. You win. You can rev and race with the best of them, I know when I see an RX-8 I almost never seeing it do anything else but 9000 rpm down a straight away, I mean no one ever uses them for other uses or for just the pure fact of driving to get somewhere or for fun (yes, the auto can still be a pleasure to drive for some, sorry to pee in your cornflakes)

You forget that if people are on this forum they probably have or had done a good amount of research and know about the performance deficits of the AT and still bought it for their own reasons.

Move on.

Wow, did then and your super machismo buddies, having impressed eachother with your manhood think that maybe those guys were merely letting off the brake a bit, or did you just start making out with eachother at that point. You make it sound like the car has weak credibility if its so easily tarnished, why do you care? Is it out of low personal esteem?

The auto 8 really isn't a quick car. It's about the speed of a I4 Accord or Camry, you won't be getting much out of it if you're looking for speed. Maybe the new transmission will help a bit but until then, stay away from Auto 8s.

don't get too worked up because you made the mistake of getting an automatic and is envious of the 6 speeds. It's not an issue of driving a stick which makes one feel more like a man, this is about a gimpy automatic with a wimpy tranny inside a really good car. Like I said, equal power with a better transmission (dsg/smg-like) no one here would say anything.

You'll never hear the audi/vw guys complain about the automatics there. It just looks like they're more refined with the intent on making a great car with an automatic tranny.

It seems like mazda wanted people who can't drive sticks to be able to own a rotary powered car and slapped a mazda3 auto tranny in there at the last minute.

FYI: Mazda 3 is fwd...the 8's tranny is from the FD (which leads to another FYI: the 8's not the first rotary powered vehicle to have an auto tranny...). In fact auto's go way back.

The only complaint most people have (of those who have actually driven one) about the 8's AT is the gear ratios. There are those who complain about the AT for no other reason than to boost their own ego, and to rave about their awesome intelligence that made them buy a 6spd. Hint: no one cares what they think, if we cared, we wouldn't have purchased the auto in the first place. The auto 8 is quicker than it's 0-60 numbers suggest, it's just very slow from a stop. It moves just fine at speed, even with it's terrible gear ratios. And it'll handle the turns just as well, if not better than its 6speed equivalent.

For the OP: I've never encountered any delay in shifting, perhaps it was that particular car? (56000 miles here).

Test drive another one.

I have noticed a slight delay every now and then but few and far between.... it's barely noticeable. Some have reported more of a delay using the paddle shifters rather than the actual shifter.

I would echo the people that think you should wait for the 6AT though.

You MT fanatics are sad.

Give it up b/c:

• He physically can't drive a MT
• He physically can't drive a MT
• He physically can't drive a MT
• He physically can't drive a MT

Yes thats it, please with all the mistakes I have made in life (and not regretted) I think it will be a while before I regret buying an AT8. I sit around all the time in traffic, hills, and city driving, sippin on my coffee wishing I were so smart like you and jamming on the tranny. You so cool, could you send me a lock of your hair. lol.

Like I said, few are the times I am out on the US Autobahn pushing the limits of my car. I am usually just getting from place to place which is really what the AT is all about. If I had a different driving enviroment, a set of knees that pop like a granny clutch from years of baseball, football and tennis maybe I would be envious...but then I just take my poor pathetic AT for a high spirited drive and it goes away.

In the end, its about how comfortable you are with your choice and the situations around it. It seems you are the one with the uberMT that feels the need to lecture others about their "choices". A shrink would call that "projecting".

My point being we all KNOW that the AT has limitations compared to the MT R8 which has limitations on the next uber car. If it was about having the best car we would all drive testerosa's or something. Its about the "right" car and I find people who mock others for a personal choice out of some sort of self-percieved grandiosity that annoy's me. Do you have to drive his AT? No. Has he asked for your opinion on the MT vs AT? No. Are you inconvenienced by his choice or anyone elses? No. So then why must you get all hot and bothered over it....to each his own and as I mentioned before...get over it and move on.

I purchased an AT RX-8 a few weeks ago and am completely happy with it. I do like the MT RX-8 more because of the extra power and they are a lot of fun to drive. But I don't drive around looking for street races everyday. Your car doesn't have to be the fastest car on the block to be the coolest.

Let him get an '06 AT 8, he has an excuse, geez

To lighten the mood...


Stare into the eyes of the smiley.

I ordered a 6MT but I have only driven an automatic RX-8. I didn't try the paddles on it or anything. Just driving it. I was happy with it. I was actually debating whether or not to get an automatic or a stick since I have a left ankle injury that causes me problems. I tore the muscle away where the tendon attaches that controls the up and down motion of my foot so repeated use of my foot on the clutch in stop and go traffic causes me to limp later. This is a nonhealing injury. However, I didn't have to decide what to get for myself. My second job told me I had to have a stick, so that's what I ordered. I figure since I don't actually do a lot of stop and go traffic it shouldn't be a big deal to have to limp on occasion.

I think you'll be happy with the AT. I don't have any answer for the "shifting" issues since I have never tried it.

You're confusing the car, and perhaps you're also not used to a tiptronic system. They do have delays and you have to factor this in to how you shift it. Trying to pop it instantly down two gears isn't going to work, you need to give it a second or so between each downshift to let the gears complete their shifting. You're also much more likely to get down there quicker if you rev match between each shift, particularly from 3rd to 2nd, and it will certainly be smoother.

In fact if trying to jump down two gears is what you're trying to do, you're better off driving in full automatic mode, where slamming on the gas WILL drop it from 4 -> 2 instantly and the moment you let off the gas, it goes back to 4 instantly. A friend that test drove my RX-8 arbitrarily played around with this (and I wasn't very happy about it really) thinking how it was cool the display number jumped from 4 to 2.

Logically speaking, you should be in 3rd anyways at 40 mph. You'd be lugging if you were doing 40 in 4th. You need to be at about 45 mph to not be lugging the engine while in 4th. Yeah the Renesis can handle being lugged at some ridiculously low speeds in 3rd and 4th (I've rolled through some stop signs in 3rd doing like 5 mph when it got stuck and wouldn't go back to 1st on its own like it should) but it's definitely not happy about it, and sometimes will show this up in the form of serious lugging that you can feel. Being it's not the torquiest engine it needs to be run at some decent revs to keep things nice and smooth.

I have a manumatic (non RX-8) and I drop it two gears constantly. It's the same amount of lag as if I mashed down the accelerator. I personally don't understand why you would want to try and rev match in one. The computer is going to handle everything for you. Just shift and mash the pedal down.

It's perfectly reasonable to be going 40 and be in 4th. If you're cruising on the highway at this speed you will be in 4th in an automatic. I don't know if the automatic has "lug-protection" or some random thing like that, but my car ALWAYS (well, above 20mph or something) goes to 4th when it realizes I'm cruising (meaning I'm maintaining the same speed).

Anyways, just my experience.

There is a huge difference between how the RX-8 feels if you rev match or don't when just dropping down gears, particularly at high RPMs. You get quite a bit of engine braking if you don't rev match. Even just dropping it down and mashing the gas does not feel as smooth as if you rev matched first. There is a slight moment of engine braking before the lower gear kicks in if you just drop it at high RPMs, whereas with a good rev match you can hardly feel the gears change.

As for the 2nd point...it ain't a rotary. Piston engines, even 4 bangers, have enough torque down low so that you don't feel the lugging in 4th gear at low speeds. Mines will start lugging in 4th at 40 particularly if I'm barely applying throttle...the car will start shaking miserably and generally feel like it's going to die. It tends to happen in scenarios where I have to follow up close to another car around town, where you can barely apply any throttle. Letting the RPMs drop and then suddenly trying to give it gas at low speeds while in 3rd or 4th causes the lugging. I don't think it's just my RX-8 either as a few others have had the same experience around here. I've never gotten a straight answer as to why, but some have just chalked it up to the rotary not having much torque down low.

Couple questions then. Are you saying that if you're going 50mph in 4th gear and want to go as fast as possible, it's better to keep it in fourth, rev the engine a little, and then downshift to 3rd, rev it up again, downshift to 2nd, and then mash the pedal? I'm more than likely missing something, so I'll let you explain.

In my car, I can either mash the pedal and let it think and downshift appropriately by itself (auto mode) or I can slap it down two gears (manual mode) as I begin to floor it. I always get more kick with less lag when I do the latter.

Secondly, does the RX-8 display what gear you're in when you're in full auto mode? What does it say when you're cruising at 40mph down the highway? Does it stay in 3rd? Just curious.