Spark plug design flaw causes flooding?
 

With no prior problems with our '05 Rx-8 (7,000 miles), it wouldn't start yesterday. The battery would turn the engine -- but it wouldn't fire. We're very careful to always let it run at least 10 minutes after each cold start, so we don't think we caused it to flood. Jumping it from another car did not help. The car was towed to the nearest dealer.

The dealer tells us that there is a recent service bulletin issued about Rx-8 spark plugs having a design flaw. The newly designed replacement spark plugs are supposedly on national back-order. They told us that they cost $149 each!

Can anybody confirm this story?

Thanks,
Kim@TheMedlins.org

Personally, I have never heard of this before. I have trouble starting mine on some occasions. Sometimes it starts right up and then sometimes it takes a couple cranks. I have no clue what's up with that.

with the sudden onlaught of these types of problems I suspecting there's a wide spread problem that mazda knows (Hence the TSB) about but is reluctant to draw fire to or change (hence the many stories of people not being able to get replacements unless they've encountered the problem already)

My issue was exactly like yours...always run the car to warm before shutting off, left it for a couple days and then tried to start it on a cold morning. I went ahead and told the dealer that I thought it was flooded...do that.....it should get you the starter/battery/all 4 plugs replaced.

They did all that for me under warranty.

cant tell you how much they cost but I'll ask today when I go pick mine up.....I wouldn't be suprised to hear 150 is the going rate however.

$149???? ripoff.

go to another dealer. you can get the new plugs for $20 each at sparkplugs.com. and i'm pretty sure the only thing that's different about them is the optimal temperature range.

and if anything is going to cause a propensity for flooding, its going to be the rotor housing design...there's no way for standing gas from a flood to leak out like in a piston engine (which can flood also...they will just deflood themselves if left to sit).

wouldn't plugs be covered under warranty? I'm pretty sure awhile back (back in 04' when my car flooded for the first and only time) they replaced the plugs under warranty.

Hmmm, I would like more information on this too...

My 8 seems to crank up without a problem but after my 15-20 min drive to work, after work when I go to drive home it seems to have more trouble starting. Strange...???

I also am careful and keep my 8 nice and warm before turning it off. Should we all rev to 3K before turning our 8's off just as a "just in case"?

OH yeah, don't pay NOTHING for them...they need to replace them for FREE...don't take any dealer BS.

the reason why the car seems to have issues starting after short trips is because the battery takes a "hit" to its stored charge, and generator (altenator) recharges it while you drive. short trips don't give the generator enough time to completely recharge the battery, so you are trying to start the car with what is essentially an undercharged battery.

The plugs are $140 because they're the irridium (sp?) plugs, which are expensive no matter where you buy them.

The story about bad plugs sounds possible though, given the ease with which I got my battery/starter and plugs replaced.

(whether you need iridium plugs is another story)

sweet jebus people. $140/plug is outrageous.

i think $150 for the set is around the dealer price, and then they charge around $40-50 to install them.

you can get them for $80/set at sparkplugs.com, and shipping is around $7.

http://sparkplugs.com/results_app.as...1&AAIA=1416844
don't use the denso plugs. they are designed for racing applications and aren't suited for normal daily driving.

Follow-up to spark plug discussion
 

Thanks for all of your replies. Here are a couple of points to note.

Cold weather isn't a factor. I live in Florida.
Warranty is covering all expenses. But the car won't be under warranty forever.

* The main reason I buy new cars rather than used cars is so that I'll have a reliable car. If this thing is going to occasionally spontaneously flood, then it'll have to go. Thank goodness it happened while parked at my home!

i think my dad flooded my car the other week, towing it to the dealership today.. I'm not paying for nothing! :) At least I hope i'm not paying for nothing!


MrJynx

recall or not that should be a warrenty issue and you should not have to pay a dime

KIM these issues come and go on here some happen some do not change you take even with whatever car you get new...Seen new cars take a turn for the worse with in 3 days so this is just the RX8

Being a rotary "fanatic" since 1990 and having owned a second gen RX7 and currently owning a 95 "highly" modified RX7 (single turbo, etc), I find it extremely concerning that Mazda did not do a better job of calibration/development with the RX8. I heard stories of RX7's flooding though I never experienced such a problem with any of the vehicles that I owned/own. Believe me, I am as hard core as it comes when it comes to the rotary engine (and any Mazda car for that matter) but I must admit that hearing all these horror stories of the RX8 flooding makes me really think twice about getting one. That is a serious issue for Mazda if any diehard rotary fan begins to think twice about getting any new rotary powered vehicle. What would the average joe who doesn't give a damn about rotary?

Just use the RX-7 spark plugs. They fit perfectly and they work fine. They also only cost about $4 a piece. There has been no evidence that the RX-8 plugs work any better.

Of course, it's also entirely possible that the RX7's with flooding problems are no longer on the road, just like the RX8's that have a lot of problems probably won't be in service 11 years from now either.

I'm not sure that is sound advice given most RX-8's are under warranty. Why risk a refusal on an engine warranty claim for a few lousy dollars?

If you read what sparkplugs.com says that they redesigned the sparkplugs due to fouling

quote

Original equipment, fine wire plug designed to give you optimum spark from your existing ignition system. Slightly recessed fine wire iridium center electrode requires less voltage to ionize(jump) the plug gap. This allows a stronger spark which will better ignite the air fuel mixture leading to more power. The iridium center and platinum ground electrodes for extreme durability. Fine wire platinum ground electrode to reduce quenching. This plug is improved over the RE7AL as the shell has been notched to reduce fouling and improve cold starting.

I believe that the sparkplugs that are in are the RE7AL. I might be mistaken.

isnt TSB supposed to be covered under warranty? It sounds like the dealer has every incentive to push for you to buy this product that might or might not fix the issue. they are outrageously priced, so the smart thing to do is to wait for more info to become available.

All I can tell you is what my dealer told me last month....
If I had a "no fire'" condition which required my car to be towed to the dealer, they automatically replace the spark plugs with a hotter rating, and exchange the starter with a faster reving one.
All under warranty, if under 50K miles.

no start or hard start = new plugs under warranty!

depending on the date of manufacture, we will replace either just two plugs, or all four, or them and the battery, or them the battery and the starter. it all depends when your car was built. the revisions to the starters and battery and plugs went into effect at 13 billion different times so its needed to look up the build date in the VIN. if your car is under 50k or 4 years, its free.
________
Halfbaked

umm... Rosenthal has all of the TSB's here. The spark plug info is the last one listed.

Mod Edit:
Link moved here: http://parts.arlingtonmazda.com/pages/RX8.html
No spark info noted though
-RIWWP

I've never had the flooding issue, nor hard starting. I did replace the battery in December. The old battery just gave up one morning, no warning, just...dead, it was 26 months old and the ambient temperature was much lower than the car or I was used to. Does almost everyone experience hard starting?

no

The thing that amazes me is that some people here actually haven't gotten enraged when Mazda dealerships have tried to charge them money for things that are covered under warranty.

That's a load of crap; even if the dealership merely suggests, rather than insists, that any money is due.