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this car is starting to bother me again.......

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POOMan, I think the oil useage will be a non-issue for you. I found that the oil changes on my 93 RX-7 came long before I needed to add oil. Of course this will be dependant on your driving style but the RX-8 is reported to used only 1 qt per 10,000 miles so they've been able to really reduce the oil consumption.

After you've checked it a few times I think you'll see that you don't have to check it any more often than you would check with a conventional engine, maybe even less often.

Is it really so hard?? Never run the engine for less than 5 minutes, and blip to 3000 RPM before shutting off....

Perhaps a turbo timer to let it run on for 5 minutes if it's not warm or somthing would do good...

Re: Re: Engine warmup
 

The fact that the engine is a rotary will not cause a problem with remote starting.

There are ways around the clutch switch. Also, there is a good chance that this manual tranny has an indicator to indicate whether the tranny is in neutral or not.

The problem that you will have with remote starting on this car is that the key has a chip in it that the ignition needs to read before it will allow the car to start. There are ways around this, but to do so, you will defeat that feature, and make it so that one could hot-wire your car.

---jps

My 86 GXL does it too, especially when it's not warmed up. But I came up with a way to shut off the car if it's not warmed up:

After starting and moving the car... while the car is still running, put it in first gear, and set the handbrake. Release the clutch slowly until the rpms drop to idle, then turn off the car.

I had heard that the oil injectors were bigger :confused:

Also, I believe the engine is designed with large amounts of oil loss in mind. I use as evidence the 1.5, or thereabouts, quart difference between full and low on the dipstick.

yup, the sump is pretty big for such a small engine.

Re: "Short Trip Driving Procedure"?
 

I have to run it for five minutes every time I move the car??!!!

All that means is that you should allow it to get up to operating temperature. It usually takes much less time than 5 minutes. I usually wait until the temp guage is above the C lines.

My driveway only holds two cars + my garage so I with the RX-8, I will be shuffling a bit. This will make it awkward.

I'm still not sure this is that big a deal, ie it may not be that important if done infrequently. I think there was a similar procedure for my 2d gen 7, but I didn't find out about it until the car's 11th year. If yer gonna do it every day it may be a different matter, but if it's once in a while/week, I think it's OK. O'course this is based on my experience with the older rotary, so things today may be different. (or to put it another way, I barely know what I'm talking about)

I really think we are blowing these things up out of proportion.

As for oil burning -- there is not way it burns more than an old first gen RX-7 and I certainly didn't have to top off every 2 tanks. Maybe every couple months -- no big deal -- usually no problems until the 3 month oild change anyway.

As for engine warm up -- this is not unique to the rotary -- my Volvo doesn't like short starts sometimes either -- many cars will get a little flooded without proper warm-up. We just don;t really notice, care, or make a big deal about it.

Well, I don't know how bad the flooding is with the REN, but I do a ton short little jigs with my 7 all the time from driveway to driveway. I have yet to flood once. Just do it as you normally would for now, and if the engine ever has problems turning over afterward, you'll have to follow the proper warmup procedure.

I thought it was a wear issue, like the engine would have problems or something if you don't run it five minutes whenever you start it.

I'm confident with fuel injection, floods will be rare.

I can't see it giving any more wear and tear than starting the engine, letting it get up to operating temps, and shutting it down.

The reason flooding is an issue, is because the rotary eats a lot more fuel at idle in each combustion chamber than a piston engine. At least I think so :rolleyes:

Humm...I think you all are blowing this "procedure" out of proportion as well.

Piston engines don't like short trips either, they just tolerate them better; but it's still not a great idea to constantly shut an engine off when it's cold.

I've taken plenty of short trips giving my friends quick rides around the block, I've started the car about 5 times today, each time letting it run for about a minute or two and then going a quick round about the block. The engine gets up to temp pretty quick if you drive it, mine came up to the center line around a quarter mile down the road driving it normally, I waited another half mile or so before taking it anywhere near 5k. I don't think this is that bad.

So, if you really don't want to wait for it to come up to temp in your driveway, let it idle for a tad (20 seconds, maybe less - I noticed my initial revs this morning were a bit high and then dropped down where they should be in about 20 seconds, then I started driving...no different than my g/f's piston engine (Camaro never did this...but). Then, like I said, a quarter mile and it was up to water temp, a tad later and up to operating temp I'm sure. So enjoy it around the block before washing it up...what the hell it's not that big of a deal :D.

edit: oh and if you really find it a pain...the car's light as hell, put it in neutral (if you have stick) and push it out of the garage to wash it up :D.

With all due respect, I believe most of you are blowing this way out of proportion.

The rotary engine injects tiny amounts of oil into the combustion chamber. Combine that oil with fuel and there can be quite a bit of "moisture" within the combustion chamber at a cold startup.

If you start the engine and then immediately turn it off (less than a minute) then you leave all that moisture (oil and unburned fuel) inside an engine that probably isn't even above ambient temperature.

The "moisture" will run down the sides of the combustion chambers and will pool at the bottom of the rotor housings.

Next startup and more oil and fuel is injected and more than likely the engine will flood or will be very hard to start.

This is an undue strain on the engine and is completely unnecessary.

It is not required to get the coolant hot, it isn't even required to sit in the car for any extended period of time. All that you really need to do is let the combustion chambers produce some heat to burn off all the residual oil and fuel from the cold start.

I would estimate that with modern technology in the Rx8 that 2 minutes of running would probably be enough. In older rotary engines it was very important to let it run until warm, but that simply cannot be the case now.

Oh and the one guy said that the new engine is designed to burn larger amounts of oil. I also can't imagine that is the case. Oil burning is one of the big problems with passing emission tests so I would imagine that the Renesis burns the absolute minimum and burns it more cleanly than prior versions of the engine.

It just sounds like an over zealous salesman flouting his apparent knowledge.

For what it's worth, any combustion engine should be treated in the same way. It is just that the problem has a chance to be worse on a rotary engine due to the deliberate injection of oil.

Chicane, I agree. The RX-8 was designed for minimum oil consumption. The Mazda data suggests 1 qt per 10,000 miles. When they did that they found that they could also move the exhaust ports to the side. Early attempts at this failed because of excess oil needed at that time caused carbon build up in the exhaust ports if they were side located. I was at the dealer when a factory rep was training the sales people and I recall him saying about the same thing you said. They wanted the engine to always be warmed up to burn off any oil that might pool from just a cold start.

I also think that the RX-8 holds a lot of oil primarily for cooling purposes. They can remove a lot of heat through the oil and oil coolers in addition to what's removed by the normal coolant system. And the longer distance before you have to add oil as marked on the dipstick just means they have a wide margin of safety before a low oil condition will begin to be detrimental. I'm sure most will be changing their oil before they have to add a quart. It was even that way with my 93 RX-7 and the RX-8 has even lower oil consumption.

I'm sceptical... if it's injection and designed well there should be no flooding problems whatsoever, and so this engine should not have a problem here,...

The problem isn't really rotary specific, it's just that most engine wear happens when an engine is cold, piston, rotary or otherwise... so you shouldn't work a cold engine if you can help it as this will accelerate that wear..

These are the practices of fanatics who plan to get the engine to 300,000 miles if they can... so concider this as good advice if you want to baby any car a bit... rotary or not... just like changing the oil every 30 minutes or whatever... Not to say that you shouldn't follow the instructions for changing oil, I knew somone who worked for one of the motor oil people and he said that their testing showed that changing oil more often than recommended improved the life of an engine conciderably.... he changed his oil every 3000 miles and I expect I will also.

In a rotary some 30% of the cooling is achieved via the oil as it's impossible to route water via the rotors etc... so it's VERY important to have oil coolers.

It's nice that there is a good margin of error in the sump, but that is definitely NOT an indication of high oil consumption... even though the oil is pretty thin... 5w20 !

5W20? Wow! I'm running 20W50 right now.

In what?

My FD. Royal Purple Synthetic 20W50.

It actually seems to run a bit better from when I was running Mobil 1 10W30.

No more oil leaks for one ;) Mileage may be a bit up too.

I have always been a fan of synthetic oil and frequent oil/filter changes, but I have heard (somewhere in this forum?) that Mazda specifically says don't use synthetics. I don't mind burning off a little oil and adding when necessary, but is there any reason synthetics are actually bad for rotaries?

The theory is basically that synthetics don't burn well... so hence they could cause a probem... perhaps with carbon buildup in the side exhaust ports...

Flooded
 

Just want to let you know that they are not kidding with the advice not to just back it out of the garage. I did this to wash it. Several hours later pulled it back in. The next day pulled it out again to clean the garage. Went to pull it back in several hours later. It started, but stalled as soon as I let the clutch out. After this it would not start. I tried the procedure in the manual to start it which involves holding down the gas pedal - no go. Let it sit over night and charged the battery. It would not start this morning either. I tried to get at the spark plugs but I cant get my arm in through the tangle of hoses so i gave up and called the road side assistence number. This was a 7AM and I was told that the truck would be there in 2 hours. After 3 hours I called again and was told the truck was called by the police to clear an accident, but another would be there in 1 hour. 4 hours later the truck showed up and took my car to the dealer. The dealer was very good and performed the "unflooding" procedure, and even had time to change the oil, in 2 hours. They didn't even laugh at me, though I was quit embarassed to have had to have a car towed for flooding. By the way it was all warranty work except for the oil change.

The car wash was the only success out of the whole weekend. The Zaino kit worked well and the car again turns heads. Zaino has to be the nicest wax I have ever used. There is no white residue in the creases, and no white streaks on the black parts.