Well, heard from the dealer today. It has now been a week and a half. They claim that Mazda is flying in a "flight recorder" to hook up to the car for tomorrow. This will allow the mechanic to drive the card and record some 24 minutes of diagnostic data while it malfunctions. This "flight recorder" will then be shipped back, overnight to the "engineers" for analysis. Their current eta is at least a week and likely 2-3 weeks before they have figured out the problem, much less repaired it.

A question for those in the know of my legal rights here. I took ownership of the car on July 30th and it went into service on August 11th. How many days do they get it before the lemon law or some other buyers rights take place forcing them to either replace the vehicle or refund the purchase price? Anyone know for certain (no speculation please, I need hard facts here).

Thanks,

Bill

When you bought the car if your state has a lemon law you would have received (and signed that you received) all the lemon law information. Look through your paperwork or check with your local Consumer affairs office. Only someone from your state will be able to give you exact information for you and you most likely already have it or can find it easier than waiting for someone here to stop bye.

Nevada has the weakest lemons law? :eek: According to this article a year ago,
http://www.autosafety.org/article.php?scid=109&did=681

I think in your case an rx-8 loaner car is in order :)

Vaughnc -

Actually, I've been driving a red RX8 identical to mine ('cept it runs better) since last week as a loaner. Dealer's been quite good on this issue to that regard. Fact is, I'd just as well take this car as a replacement.

Bill

I believe he reported that while driving a fair distance, and with the car good and warmed up, he got an oil light.

I think it is fair to say they are trying to reproduce the conditions when it happened.

How else would you suggest they do that??

I'm having the same issue with my 8 but not all the time. At a little over 6000 rpm it loses power severly and it just won't accelerate, kinda feels like a clogged fuel injector. This has only happended a couple times but I can always feel a little dip at that rpm it's just a couple of times it was really bad. wildwhl do you have any updates

At this point I would suggest you ask for and contact BOTH the regional sales manager and the national sales manager. Odds are they are already aware of the issues you have been having. I would support the local Mazda owner in your comments but appeal to reason and fairness concerning the continuing use of the red RX8. A subtle mention of your attorney interest and the web address for this thread would add support.

Enough is enough, I say. You have certainly been patient as well as calm concerning what has happened and your experience. Time to take action.

Offdaheeze -

This is exactly how mine started out - and it will only get worse. I HIGHLY recommend you get your car into the service department pronto. I would take printed out copies of this thread with you and demand a loaner at drop off. I am suspecting due to some other emails I've had, and the fact that I've noticed a similar, albeit much more minor, situation in the red loaner, that this will be a common problem with our 8's (sorry to say). I hope I am wrong here, but quite frankly, when I leave for a roadtrip next weekend, will NOT be taking the red loaner for fear of it failing me somewhere on the CA coast.

I have left messages for the sales manager and owner yesterday to contact me about a permanent swap for this car. Fortunately, I had not even registered the black car. I did get the windows tinted and it looks quite good - but my wife likes the red, plus it runs the way I believe they should (save for the hesitations felt at 6,200 rpm and about 7,500 rpm or so).

I'll keep you all posted here. One other note, a few responses up in this thread I indicated that I had misread the milage on the odometer - it had been switched to kph and therefore they had really only put about 30 miles on the car as of last Wednesday.

Wasy -

Well said. Thanks for the advice. I'm sure some more of the story will unravel this morning.

Just for fun when I picked up my car last Monday I looked at the Sentry Mazda (Northborough, MA) service manager and said,

"I guess there is no reason to be concerned about bugs in the new release..."

He just rolled his eyes and looked at the ceiling as if to infer that that is EXACTLY what he was expecting, but perhaps I was just reading too much into it.

We'll see.

UPDATE 8/28/03

Little long, but here's the update.

Yesterday I received a call from the service manager who informed me that two engineers from Mazda Japan had been here for two days and could not recreate the problem I had been having. He asked if I would be willing to take them on a ride and try to make it happen.

I did. It didn't.

I drove the piss out of the car and it never once pulled the antics that it had been for the last two weeks in service above or at 6,200 rpm. The engineer that rode along with me had a laptop strapped into the passenger seat and it was monitoring/recording everything as we drove. We broke several laws in an attempt to recreate this problem - but it appears to be gone (oil light problem still exists). There are now about 1100 miles on the car, so about 300 have been from the service department's test drives.

After about 40 minutes I gave up. I couldn't make it happen so whatever it was must have been (inadvertently) fixed. The "guess" at this point in time was a poor electrical on one of the engine harness plugs - but no one is sure. Of course, since the fellows from Japan didn't experience the problem for themselves, I'm under the impression they think it didn't ever exist and it was just us "dumb americans" though they didn't exactly say that. They were quite nice actually - but a little arrogant maybe?

Anyway, I asked if I could have my car back (about noon yesterday) and they said sure, we'll button it up and you can pick it up later today. That was followed by a phone call at about 4:30 p.m. yesterday stating that since they hadn't addressed the oil light problem yet, they would need it for another one to two weeks. I replied enough is enough.

I called the consumer compliance line this morning and insisted they fax me the letter and laundry list of documents I must supply in order to start the buyback procedure. They are leaving today via FedEx priority overnight. I have a scan of the form I'll email anyone if interested, but since it was scanned from a fax it is hard to read.

I'll continue to post my progress here as well as to watch this forum for further updates. Thanks to all the members who have assisted with my issues - and I wish all of you the best of luck with your 8's. My "try to scare the crap out of the 29 y.o. Mazda engineer test drive" yesterday was an eye opener - these cars handle amazingly well and haul ass once rolling. Off the line, no (unless you drop at 8K) but up a twisty mountain road and you own the corners.

Why on earth would you bother going through something like that??? It will be far, far quicker and easier to just return the RX-8 under the HP resolution terms (you know, the $500 and free service or Mazda buys back the car) deal. Sign one letter and your done, no fighting with state officials and lemon law nonsense. I recall one person trying to get a lemon law return spent nearly a year trying to get it resolved.

My advice - pull the plug quickly and now on the consumer compliance letter and laundry list procedure, and just let Mazda buy it back plain and simple.

Point of interest - in lemon law buy backs, IIRC you typically have a deduction for the use you had of the vehicle (X miles, X months, etc) - you don't get the full price back. Mazda is offering to buy your car back for full price!!

Regards,
Gordon

PS - I drove through Reno last week - on the return leg of a roadtrip in my RX-8 from Calgary, Alberta, to Monterey, CA. About 4000 miles round trip, absolutely no problems with the car the entire time.

I just wanted to add a comment that the limp home mode on the FD3S only cut the boost levels from the turbos, which would explain why wildwhl's 1.8T had the same feature. I can't remember the exact PSI that boost was dropped to (it may have been cut entirely) but I'm pretty sure that's what happened.

Well I took my car in because I am having trouble downshifting from 5th to 4th and I mentioned the issues that I had with loss of power and acceleration at 6000 rpm, the GM told me that if this was a problem specific to my car the he would give me a new RX-8.

If I did take the option of a new car I would forfeit the $500 and free maitenance, this would probably be better for the dealer and Mazda as they could sell my old RX-8, probably for what I paid for it, and not have to give up the free maitenance and $500.

Anyhow I have not had any issues with acceleration recently and It's actually starting to feel faster, I am begining to think it's a break in issue and the more you rev it to 9000 the faster and more broken in the engine gets. The dips in the power band are starting to be less noticeable.

Actually, didn't mean to mislead anyone here. I AM doing the HP buyback -not a lemone law issue. Sorry if my post read differently.

I had mine on pre-order from Carson City Mazda. Picked it up July 22nd. Silver 6MT GT with Nav. Too bad I haven't seen you around town (in your black or the red loaner). That sucks about your 8. I haven't noticed any problems at the top end with mine. Are you going to rebuy an 8 after you sell that one back or did Reno Mazda scare you from the 8?

VIN, engine #
 

what is the VIN (last 5 digits at least) of both your blk car and the loander, and what are each engine's numbers? It likely doesn't fall into any sort of sequential pattern but it doesn't hurt to try to find out what the numbers are. My Red seems to run great, but IMHO more like 210HP great,not 238HP great. Don't seem to have any dips that I can feel although a computer may reflect some. Thanks!
my VIN ends in 01129 and I think my engine code is 36588 or very close to that.
[edit] -mine is actually 361688 (engine #)

The black car ended in 05067 (don't know engine number) and the red car 05235.

Got the car back!

Scratches on top of the front fenders and all! Finally, after quite a few phone calls, the dealer released the black RX8 back to me today (they placed 342 miles on it while in service for those interested). The oil pan was replaced (and has been now on several of the 8's in their inventory) but nothing was ever diagnosed to the problem of the power cutting out (severely) as described in my original post. The car seems to run quite well for the 20 miles I drove it this a.m.

So, for me, I'll still participate in the buyback becasue:

1) still not confident that this vehicle is "fixed"
2) I paid too much (over MSRP)
3) 342 miles by the service department
4) scratches in front fender
5) Bad taste in my mouth

Still the the 8 is a great vehicle...but my experience leads me to believe it will be even a better value in a year. I'll still be lurking around here, watching what happens with the aftermarket as well as your experiences. Good luck all.

If your going to get your money back, may I suggest the Mazdaspeed RX-8 when it's released :)

It sucks you had bad experiences, but I'm grateful that the vast majority of owners are having good experiences.

Now if someone would just release the 150 and 175HP maps for the RX-8 ECU :)

I certainly do not blame you for wanting to opt for the buy-back. I would order a new red RX8 (like the loaner they gave you that you liked so much)....

Have you called the Mazda 800 number to discuss the buy-back? I, for one, would be very interested in what they have to say to you in a future post.

It really sucks that you got some bum RX-8's and you had to go through the service issue. You should do the buyback offer.

Then I can still say I have the first AND only one in Reno. :D

Wild...

Too bad about your car: I would be extremely disapppointed were I in your position. I just wanted to add that I appreciate how level-headed and non-judgemental your posts were as you went through this process. It seems that given your experience you have made the only logical decision. In spite of it all, you have even left the door open to try again in a year or so!

Congratulations for being impartial and honest during what was a truly crappy consumer experience. For my part I hope you have much better luck with whatever you purchase in the future... especially if you decide to give the 8 another chance!