shifting without clutch?
 

A while back my uncle asked if I shift without the clutch and just hearing that surprised me. Had no clue that could work (without killing the tranny). So a little after that I search around here and other sites to see if it's possible/safe and such. I now know it's possible and shouldnt put a lot of extra wear on the tranny when done right. The one downside I've read about is that it might put a little extra stress on the syncros but very little.

Anyone a little more knowledgeable about this who can explain it in a bit more detail? It's my understanding that matching the rpms is important, so anyone who has done this in the 8, could you give an example for the timing (what gear to what gear, what rpm to what rpm). I didnt just go out and try this myself, since that would just be plain stupid. Also dont plan to do it a whole lot either, just interested in how it works and might possibly try a few times (assuming it's gentle enough on parts to not destroy anything). Thanks for any info

yes its possible I did it before just to see if it works I for got what rpm it is but I mostly did it off sound and feel because when u let of the gas u can sort of feel when the clutch has play in it so u can shift. but to keep mu new clutch safe when I do get I'm not even going to try it.

Is your uncle a truck driver? Drivers of big rigs often shift without declutching, but their transmissions are made for it. There was a long thread on this some time last year. That included posts from people who explained the differences between truck and car transmissions.

You just need to pull it out of gear at a point when there isn't any torque being transmitted, and slide it into the next gear when speeds match. It's easy enough to know the right rpms at a given speed by looking at the tach when moving at that speed in each gear. But miss and you'll at least put extra wear on the synchros.

Easier to do at low rpm and speed than high. Probably easier on an older car with worn out synchros. IMHO, it's not really a good idea to try it for fun on a good car.

Ken

that's why stop I don't wana hurt my baby

nah, I knew the big rigs did that though. He had sports cars when he was younger and he was talking from that experience. Thanks for replies.

Our syncro's are not that strong in 04's

They fixed the problem with them but others still have problem.

Ask old Motor head guys " those jap syncro's ain't made like those American Hurst shifters."

Of course you can debate the other way. Why mess with the Syncro's.

That what an A/T or clutch is for.

i could shift like that in my old mustang during college, to get out of gear cleanly you'd let up off the gas slightly, and to get into the next gear you'd go into the gas slightly. Though i could do it, it was never a everyday thing, just something I tried and figured out.

you dotn need the clutch after 4th gear. but just for in case shit reasons i always press it in a little.

It is just a feel you develop with the right foot and the feel of the rpm's. Very seldom use the clutch for the first four gears. I use the clutch for 5 and 6. If i am going through the gears in search of a beep, I use the clutch. I started shifting without a clutch when driving a C60 series Chevy truck hauling fertilizer and coal.
Just made it easier to drive.

It's a common practice in motorcycles to upshift with no clutch but I would not recommend it for your 8.

I normally try this behaviour in any hire cars I get... I read/heard from some motoring journo that it was faster than changing gear using the clutch. They suggested to run it to redline and then change gears at fuel cutoff. Dunno if it was faster but never felt that nice to the car... broke 3rd gear once doing this so decided it wasn't a good idea to practise in my own car.

I've had to shift gears on an old ford when the clutch went but its a different thing to above.... you don't shove it in gear, you rev until you find the point that it will slip into gear nicely.

Funny thing a couple years ago I parked next to a mustang that had "I CAN POWER SHIFT" written across his back windshield, most likely was a tool.

I would not recommend it. The transmission is not really designed to take the abuse. As long as you perfectly match the revs, you will be OK. But it is very hard to do consistently and will destroy your transmission if you do not get it right. I don't even try it on my motorcycle.

I would like to hear from someone who has tried it.

^ this is exactly what my friend did when he blew his clutch 2 weeks ago while we were in the twisties. he blew his clutch 30 minutes into our drive and i had to follow his 240sx all the way downhill w/o the clutch. when we got to the expressway, i thought that he was just going to pull over and have it towed but he direct connected me (nextel) saying that he will be driving home and asked me to just follow him cautiously. when i asked him how he did it, he explained it just how dillsrotary did. the tranny allowed to him to shift at 3500 - 3700 rpms w/o the clutch.

never heard that before! i would be so scared not to use the clutch

Why try it at all? I understand your curiosity, to see if it's possible, but even if you do it perfectly… so what? Meanwhile there's a fair chance you won't do it perfectly and might harm your transmission, even if it's just a little.

i wouldn't try it unless i absolutely have to. that's if i blow my clutch in the middle of the road and i'm almost home.

Had the clutch die in my old Ranger, and even in that high miles beast I ONLY did it b/c I had to.

Like most have said: yes, it can be done (in any MT vehicle), & can be done w/o damage to the tranny/synchs. But if not done at the right RPM it can cause problems. No idea what rpm range would be ok in the 8, but it is usually at the low end of the band in any car. Which means you would likely have to shift somewhere in the 3-4k range and that wouldn't be any fun now, would it?

Basically you could go to the redline, but you'd have to yank it out of gear at high rpm (which I assume makes the synchros say ouch) and then wait for the rpm to drop b4 being able to slip it into the next gear.

To do it right, you need a dogbox.

Dam I bought a manual so i could play with the clutch...

My first car was an '81 Volkswagon Diesel which the clutch was gone on. I rev matched and switched gears without the clutch (it wasn't always a pretty sound getting it in gear without having a tach to go off of) but at each stop I had to turn off the engine to get it in first. (no way to feather 2nd without a clutch).

I have done this in my car...

You can shift out of 3rd at 4k rpm... it just "falls" out without any effort...

And will go into 4th gear at 3k rpm... Just falls in

I did find the other rpm points where the other gears fall in but this was some time ago...

All this was done without grinding any gears I might add.

I used to race motocross and the only time you use a clutch is to start or stop. just let off the gas and put it in as the rpms match, still do it on my Harley and once in a while on my 8. On the 8 it is a little harder to do as it doesnt like to shift out of gear without the clutch. If you know how and do it right it will make your clutch last longer as the is no slippage witch causes the wear on it.

I used to do this in my old Plymouth Arrow (Mitsubishi product) all the time. The clutch cable was constantly wearing-out due to poor routing design, and whenever it broke I had to go clutchless until I got a new cable. My old Ford Ranger PU would do it with the 5-speed in there as well. I DON'T do it in my 8.

I wouldnt recommend doing it going fast pushing the limiter but for regular shifting - I might get lazy and do it on long drives every now and then, but i only do it after 3rd, but you have to time it just right every time or else you'll mess something up for sure. I had a guy show me how to do it back in the day when i drove a cobra it was like the car was about to fly the way he was speeding through the gears but when i tried i was grinding the sh*t out of mine.