Service Bulletin Rewrite "Engine Cranks-No Start"
 

Look at this! They have redone this SB. Just as some of our guys have told us. We now have it in writing. Battery-Spark Plugs-Starter Motor!!! Check your VIN#..... :ylsuper:
http://www.finishlineperformance.com...4-05-1448e.pdf

I can still do this even though my warranty is expired right ?

i posted the full TSB here https://www.rx8club.com/showthread.p...rt#post1194272 when this came up earlier this month. The TSB has looked just like that since the previous re-write. the only thing that has changed on this re-write was some of the warranty information that the dealers use for billing back to Mazda. The bulk of it remains the same since the previous re-write.

I'm confused as to whether my car needs the plug replacement or not. my vin is #..154990.
the chart on p.15 seems to say *all* cars after 150744 need plug replacement, but on p.1 it says cars built 3/05 and thereafter already did this at factory. How do I determine the build date on my car?

open the driver's door and you'll see the build date printed on one of the white stickers

It's good to see they are going back to an FA style spark plug. I never had any flooding problems with my FA's.

So could this be why it seems to take longer each time I go out and try to start my car? I never turn it off cold, but recently it takes a few few seconds to start, where as before it was immediatly.

I'm impressed: they allocate 0.4 hours (24 minutes!) to replace the starter for the AT; 0.3 hours (18 minutes) for the MT! Gotta be the easiest starter replacement on the planet.

^^either that, or dealers will be pissed off when they have to follow the TSB because they won't be able to charge more to Mazda.

I knew my car didn't have enough juice and spark on startup. Although it hasn't failed to start, it's been w-e-a-k.

Build date of 07/04.

i just had a new starter, battery and plugs put in and now my car starts up like a jet engine.

same here. it sounds sweet. :crazy:

What a timely post....my car is at my local dealership as I type this. I had it towed in on Friday. I don't drive it that often, so I was a little annoyed when it would not turn over. The dealeship just called me to tell me that they are replacing my starter and battery. After reading this post, I called back and asked about the spark plugs. "Oh yeah....of course we are replacing those too". Yeah....ok. This is coming from the same service guy that told me Mazda road service probably would not tow my car in and recommended that I use their tow service (for a fee, of course). I called Mazda road service Friday morning and a tow truck was in my driveway 30 minutes later. It will be interesting to see how she starts when I get her back on Thursday. At least they offered me a renta.

Did they do that without you flooding the car? I plan to take the bulletin in and see if they will do mine, although it has never been flooded. Will be interesting to get their reaction since the dealer I go to is a small dealership.

Damn, I can't get this done.

LAME

What a difference this has made on my car. Took mine in and they swapped it all out with the new parts. Now my car starts up right away, one crank and its running like a dream

not picking you out in particular....

you do not NEED anything. This is a service bulletin to inform techs of common problems and in this a case engineered solution. It is not a recall, it is not required for the dealer to just give you the parts if you have no problem, and if you don't have a problem why in the world do you want parts that fix a problem you don't have.

:wallbash:

no i didn't ask for it, I took it in for other things, and when I called to see if the car was ready they said they were just finishing putting in the new parts. i was like, uh ok, sweet.

How odd this TSB comes out now that I am having problems starting the car. Before my latest service, my car would start up quickly. Now, I'm experiencing what I used to see on other RX-8's after meets. I always notice how other cars needed like a 5-second cranking before it finally starts. Mine does that now :( I need to take this TSB asap.

Not long after I got the 8 in Jan. 04 my wife stalled the car when the engine was still cold and it flooded. It was flatbedded to the nearest dealer and deflooded. But they didn't replace the starter, battery or the plugs. It hasn't flooded since but I have had slow starts and a few times it has barely started with an initial rough idle from time to time. I'm still under warranty (about 10 K left), anyone have any guidance on whether or if I can get the TSB replacement parts done without having had it flood since?

That may depend on whether your dealer is customer friendly. Print out the service bulletin and take it into the service manager. Tell him/her exactly what you just said and they should not hesitate to do the update. I did basically the same thing and will have the starter and plugs installed on Monday. (I had already purchased the upgraded battery on my own.) I was asked if the car had failed to start and my truthful response was: no, but it cranks very slowly in the colder temps and I'm concerned that it will leave me stranded one day.

The upgraded starter and the newer spark plug were not available back then. As I recall, they were made available in early or mid-2005. Certainly it was well after Jan 2004.

Based on postings in a variety of other flooding threads, it appears that many dealers will do the TSB on request but a few won't unless your car is flooded or has some form of starting problem. As pointed out earlier, being a Service Bulletin, they are only obligated to do it if your car has that problem.

For example, My battery was getting weak (slow cranking if the car has been sitting a week). I took my car in yesterday for them to look at the problem and asked for the TSB work and they did it.

It never hurts to ask. Also, since the bulliten contains an updated procedure, if you have been de-flooded by the dealer in the past you can make a case that the de-floor repair was incomplete and they need to go back and make sure you have all 4 things done (PCM update, leading plugs, battery and starter).

IMHO - Mike

I guess that I'll give it a try and talk with the dealer. I certainly am concerned about the slow cranking/starts when it gets cold (not that we've had much of that around here this winter, maybe the upcoming colder trend may help demonstrate it to the dealer, eh?). They did do the required PCM updates over the past year so I am current in that regard. If they balk, maybe I'll print out this thread as well, I like the idea that the flood repair performed is incomplete. Thanks for the insight guys.

...keep in mind down the road your going to be replacing the starter after it dies from seeing too much voltage

I don't understand. Can you elaborate on why the starter will die?

Not so. I assume you are referring to the urban legend that the new starter motor is a 9v motor. The upgraded starter motor is a 12v starter as proven by a Mazda tech in another thread.

EDIT: Go to this thread and see the pictures of the old and new starter motors in post #14.

My local dealer, Mazda Gallery in Norwood, MA, said they will not do this until I flood my engine. I will not take my car there anymore, wont recommend them to anyone else, and hope you don't go there either. The service guy on the phone said that there is no need to do this TSB until I flood my car. He said getting this done isnt a preventative measure even though it says in plain english on the TSB that the "leading spark plugs have been revised to reduce the possibilities of fuel flooding at cold engine start". Bullshit

Thanks. I forgot to paste in the link. :spank:

I called another dealership and their service manager was much nicer. He said they cant do it because its considered warranty upselling, which basically means charging mazda to fix a problem that hasnt happened. he said he agrees 100% that I should be getting it done as a preventative thing, but he says he can't charge mazda to fix something that isnt broke. He said if I make a case with Mazda NA and they call him, then he will do it.

I took my car in originally for a leaking transmission (backup light switch was leaking). My car had never flooded. And they just replaced all these parts without me requesting it. My car did take a few seconds to crank over to start but always started everytime. Now after replacing these parts my car starts up immediately everytime. Definitely worth looking into.

Called Mazda NA and explained my arguement in nice and calm manner. They called the dealership and its being done next week. For once, I got some great customer service from Mazda.

Nice work, better than having to intentionally flood the car to get it done.

Very cool! Glad you had success with the national organization.

I can understand why this is not a recall, but I get the impressions that unofficially MNAO is willing to give the update to anyone that asks, even if the dealerships don't see it that way.

It is speculation, but my service writer was VERY quiet when I politely asked to be considered for the TSB upgrades. When he called to say the work was done he said "I got you the new plugs, battery and starter". Sort of like he couldn't commit to the work ahead of time but when he called the Mazda internal support line to get the OK (that Mazda would pay) they said "sure" without a whole lot of fuss.

- Mike

Also very cool that you were able to rub your dealership's nose in it!

Well after spending 3-5 minutes before it would start recently I finally made an appointment to take it back in. This is the third or fourth time for hard starts, First they did the pcm back in early 04 (IIRC, when the pcm software first came out). Later they did the battery. That they said was under the pro-rated battery warrenty so I had to pay about $50. Later they did the spark plugs. Now I hope they do the starter. I am so fed up with a car that is hard to start! And it's not just when it's cold. Right now I'm afraid to go on any trips because I may get stuck someplace.

I believe its not a recall because recalls are only for safety related information. This is not safety related, and so it is only a TSB.

I just bought a new RX-8, build date 8/05, so it has the new parts and this car starts up as quick if not quicker then any piston car I've ever owned. If the dealer will not put the parts in unless you flood then pick out a date that you can spare the time and flood it. No argument then.

That's a bit of an extreme approach in my opinion. Flooding can cause problems with the catalytic converter and that could result in problems in the future.

Better to directly approach the dealer service manager with the service bulletin in hand and ask politely if they will do the service on your car because it cranks very slowly and you're concerned that it will not start in the colder temps.

While (on this forum) I jokingly suggest intentionally flooding to get the upgrades, GO48 is right you really don't want to do that. The best path is to politely ask your dealer, relating it to any starting anomaly you have experienced. With the 2004s, that should not be hard as that 330 CCA battery is pretty much worn out by now. If you have several dealers in your area, try them all.

If that doesn't work then call (don't e-mail) the Mazda 800 number and restate your request, again in reasonable terms.