Series I vs Series II RX-8
 

I drove my 2006 Sport for 75000 until it was totaled last month. I had a blowout and hit a concrete barrier at 70 mph from a 45% angle. Seatbelts and airbags work. I am fine but the car is totaled. So I am considering a low mileage 2011 as a replacement.

I have read all the threads about the changes but I would like to hear from someone that had a series I and their impressions of a series II. Faster/slower better/worse handling mpg differences. Anything that impressed you.

I am leaning toward getting the RX-8 since I don't see anything that comes close. BMWs are nice but not as much fun (and more expensive). The new Subaru BRZ is going to be more expensive and smaller. Several reviews compare the handling to the RX-8. Porsche Caymen/Boxsters are great but too expensive also. The only downside to the RX-8 is the fuel mileage. My overall average was just under 19 and I wonder if the series II would be worse since it is rated at 16 and mine was rated at 18. This isn't a major concern since I figure that one repair bill from a BMW or Porsche would offset the difference quickly.

Any comments comparing the series I vs series II from actual experience would be appreciated.

Thanks,

Strictly from an aesthetics viewpoint, I prefer the Series 1. I'm not wild about the refresh, especially the nose. That's the only reason I bought one that was a little older.

My 2011 R3 gets about 16mpg combined when driven on the street.

The aftermarket is much better for the Series I, if that concerns/interests you at all.

Please don't buy a Cockster.

I know a couple of guys who had series 1 RX-8's and now have S2's and they feel the S2 is a better ride overall. Looks are subjective. But the S2's are far more reliable it seems. As for power and suspension they are about the same. PM tbk, Riley Craven, Rtres09, and RX22. They are all local guys to me that have series 2's (all R3's except Riley) and used to own series 1's.

I test drove several Series 1 and Series 2 back to back last year when I was shopping around.

The only significant difference was with the R3; mostly because of the stiff bilstein shocks and the Recaros. So your first impression driving one of those would be 'damn, this is different.'

The Sport and Grand Tourings felt very similar to me between the two Series. Even though the Series 2 have a revised suspension geometry, I do not think you'll notice any significant difference during a normal drive. Perhaps on the track it might be different:dunno:

In regards to the different gear ratio in the differential, again, it is not 'that' noticeable during normal driving conditions like a test drive. I did push some of the Series 2 from a dead stop to see how much quicker the response would be due to the different gear ratios. Under those circumstances, the response felt different to me ('faster'); but again, not that huge of a difference overall.

The Series 2 seem to be proving more reliable in the engine department due to the the upgrades in the oil system. But again, the third oil injector didn't seem add much to the longevity of the FDs, LOL.

Had both. Series 2 has been better to me. To be fair my Series 1 was an automatic.

Thanks for the responses. My 2006 never had any problems even though it did have a few track hours on it. But at 75000 miles maybe it was just getting ready to explode.

I found that I could use regular gasoline without a problem. When I got the car I did 2000 with 93 octane then went to 89 for 2000 miles and then switched to 87. Never had any knocks or pinging so I kept using it. I did switch to 93 during track events, it just seemed like a safe thing to do.

Are the series IIs the same way? Mine said 'Premium fuel recommended' not required.

Why? Have you owned or driven one? My '99 Boxster is the only car that I've owned (including my 911s) that has quicker reflexes and more agile handling than the RX8. It's hard to go wrong with lightweight, mid-engined, RWD, a low CG, and a flat six that makes fantastic noises. If it had room for my kids I'd probably be driving one now.

series 2 is mechanically a much better car--all the way around. In its oem form it is also faster on track.

+1.

I had a '98 Boxster, and that car was simply amazing in its driving dynamics, which includes all the sounds it makes right behind your ears.

But, the RX-8 can hold 4 people, while the Boxster can only hold 2, 3 if 2 are really, really friendly... :)

But AZ R3, stop being a lemming and repeating what you hear a funny guy on TV state.

BC.

If I were buying today then it would be a R3. If you really want to push performance and add FI then S1 is the way to go.

as much as i love my s1, s2 is better car. not only it fixed most if not all the problems found on s1, they improved the aero and rework the suspension geometry

Series 1 looks better. ;)

:not sure if serious:

FD's only have 1 oil injector per rotor...

...

.......... :scratchhe

well, oil injector aside, biggest problem with FD it's the Apex seal, heat, and it's P-Port configuration.

assume the first thing you do is cooling, you should be able to get your FD to last around 100K miles. that's of course if you don't drive it like u stole it every day.

ooops, my bad...I meant to say the second oil injector. Why did you say FDs only had on injector? I thought Mazda went from 4 to 2 on the FDs:scratchhe

Sorry man, I put the wrong info on my post above. I meant to say two oil injectors, which in my understanding is what the FDs had, correct?

FD's have a total of 2 oil injectors, 1 per rotor, aimed at the center of the apex seal

Series I RX-8's have 4, 2 per rotor, aimed towards the sides of the apex and side seals. It's been documented that the center of the apex seal receives less lubrication and subsequently wears more over time.

Series II RX-8's have 6, 3 per rotor, a combination of the two above for even distribution of seal lubrication. It also has higher oil pressures, different lubrication circuit, oil filter location, and oil injector pumps and control system which are supposed to take care of apex/side seal lubrication and high rpm bearing wear and overall be more reliable.

also there are some FD's with over 150k miles on the engine with proper maintenance and only cooling and reliability mods.

EPA changed their testing methods in an attempt to have closer numbers to real life.

For the most part, they seem to be closer, however Hybrids seem to have numbers that are too high, while diesels have numbers too low.

If you got 19 in your old car, you should get something similar with the new one. However they are hand built engines, and there are variances. Your odds of getting a 1st gen RX-8 with poorer fuel economy is going to be just as likely as with the 2nd gen.

Thanks for the info.

I knew about the Series I having 2 oil injectors per rotor, and the Series 2 having 3 per rotor.

But I always thought the FDs had two per rotor as well.

Thanks for clarifying the info.

But I don't get then why Mazda designed the Series I that way in the first place? It's not like this is their first rotary engine, I have to assume they expected it to be reliable that way.

Or was it reliable until they started playing with the flashes to chase the emissions/cat standards, encounters with american desert heat (I seem to remember many failing around Las Vegas those first few years), unanticipated user maintenance neglect, etc.?

Minority view here, but I believe S1 is reliable. S2 just has greater margin of error for owner neglect.

I suspect it had to do with keeping up with emission standards.

This is more easily done when you do not need to inject as much oil. I guess the goal all along has been to develop engines that do not require as much oil injected into the housings for proper lubrication. That probably explains why they had to do a re-flash in the early models since not enough oil was injected.

I suspect an older engine design would not pass today's emissions standards for sale as a new vehicle. Seems like with less engine being injected you get cleaner emissions.

But again, I am not sure if the third injector added to the S2s means more oil injected in terms of volume, or just the same/similar amount but distributed differently as explained above.

ethanol blended gas and the injected oil dont like each other very much. If the rotaries had stayed on pure gasoline it wouldn't have been a problem.

The problem with early Renesis was that they reduced the injected oil significantly to reduce emissions and reduce the public's perception of the Rotary as an oil burner. Added to not having a center oil injector made this issue bigger.

The reflashes increased injected oil but apparently even with increased oil injection it wasn't evenly distributed so they decided to add the center injector after all. They then decided to go all out and re-do the whole oil system increasing internal pressue and with 2 separate injection pumps and new control logic.

Their goal is to reduce oil injection for emissions but have it well distributed along the whole length of the apex seal and have just enough oil injected for reliability.

This confirms my assumptions above about emissions.

One of the reasons why I've premixed ever since I bought the car is because of the issue of the oil not being evenly distributed on the Series 1. My hope has been that premixing helps even that out....even if it's just a little bit:dunno: