on a scale of 1-10, how screwed am i (newbie to winter driving)
 

Once winter comes (i live in NY), this will be the first rear wheel drive car I have had to drive in the winter. I will have a backup car for the real snowy days when its certain death that the 8 goes out, but i know ive seen threads about winter tires and such, so i know some of you do drive in the winter.

Any thing I should know about using a rearwheel drive car in the winter dos/donts?

I have only ever used my front wheel drive small cars, but this is like 1k lbs lighter than them. Im gonna try to put on blizzaks to get the best tire at least, but a lot of people tell me driving rearwheel in the winter is just asking for an accident.

Which leads me to my next question. My dad actually happened to mention a while ago that rims could only be used so many times or something for tire replacements (or at least a dealer told him that). I am planning on buying blizzaks or toyos which are like 200$ a tire and if I had to get even cheap rims itd come out to like 2k$ total for everything.

Is it ok to just buy my tires online and have a dealer swap em out with my current rims? They are just OEM factory ones. I dont have the tools/DIYs to do it myself otherwise id try. But in all honesty id rather have a pro do it because i want to be safe... even tho the dealer that sold me the car put the directional tires on backwards but hey it happens.

Any thoughts? It's getting to be fall, and I have a daughter. I want to be alive to be with her and not be dead because of a stupid driving decision during the winter.

Which leads me to one last question about the tires too. What size is optimal? I know that you can use 17''/18''/19'' etc, but I see ppl who put trailing numbers after the 17'' which maybe indicate another dimension? Can you give me a rough idea of what I need. I wanted to look into Toyo winter tires but could not find a size that would fit my current 18'' rims. I have uhhhh eagle something tires atm i forget the name but damn they hug the road like no other.

Rockon and thanks for the advice in advance :ylsuper:

RWD isn't a problem for me. Although when I started driving, there weren't that many FWD cars on the road. Tires are the answer to most winter driving in the car. On snowy days, you may find yourself experimenting with turning off traction control/stability control. TC I find is too aggressive and SC responds too late in slippery conditions.
The OEM tires have zero grip on ice & snow. Don't wait until the first snow fall to find this out. Many of us have tried and failed.

Don't forget that up until the '80s, every car in the country was rear wheel drive, and did just fine.

Like Al said, the stock summer-only tires WILL kill you in the first inch of snow, you MUST get snows (not All Seasons) if you drive in a NY winter.

Upside is they will last forever if you don't drive on hot pavement, and rims will pay for themselves in just two years. Another plus is they are a much better tire on the street, the soft rubber and 17" diameter make the ride 'cushy' for a daily driver.

Bought mine when I got the car, this winter will be my TENTH on those snows!! (Toyo Garit HT) and they are not half worn yet.

Your small fwd cars have not been 1,000lbs heavier :lol:

You have been getting fed the same folklore tall tails about rwd cars in the snow that I got. 4 winters in new england with my 8, and it took 3 of those being the only one in the office that made it in just fine every snow day before they shut up for the 4th.

Not, you aren't screwed at all. With 17" blizzaks on, you will be shocked at how much traction you actually have. Not more than dry, still don't be stupid, but really...not something you or the people you are listening to will expect.

The common perception of 'rwd sucks in the snow' should be better stated as 'poor drivers with high torque front weight bias sports cars wearing summer tires suck in the snow'. What you have is a rwd light sports car with good weight balance and low torque. The 8 has more weight over the rear tires than a 3,500lb 60/40 split muscle car, and doesn't have instant torque down low that is hard to modulate. Add some winter tires designed for soft flexible rubber when cold that grip the snow well, and the only thing that will stop you is too deep soft snow on the road, plowed snow berms across the road, or your own stupidity :)


As for size, ideally get 17" rims. 17x7 works good, with 205 or 215 width tires. Maybe 20-30% cheaper than 18", better grip, softer sidewall for the worse roads, etc... shouldn't cost you 2k at all. Cheap knock-off rims for ~100 or so each, blizzaks for ~180-200 each, should be around 1200-ish. Or hunt other mazda forums for the 17" stock rims from the 3, 6, cx-7, cx-5, tribute, etc... deals can be found, and other winter tires will still work great. Blizzak is the best, but any winter tire will be vastly superior to any all season.

Or buy some steel wheels for the winter tires.....they will take a small hit a lot better than alloy ones :)

More...

The 17x7 means 17 inch diameter by 7 inch width. Oem 8 rims are 18x8. Width is what sets the doable tire width. X7 usually means tires fit ideally in the range of 195-225. Rims don't wear out from tire replacements. Tires do however. Though usually not before they are overly worn.

Any tire shop can mount the tires on the rims. Usually far cheaper than dealer prices.

RWD is easier to get into trouble if you drive too aggressive for the elements BUT it is also considerably easier to get yourself out of trouble if you know what you are doing.

Practice getting out of a slide somewhere safe (like a parking lot). Once you get it, you'll know and will actually feel more confident than you do in an FWD, which (once in a slide) is much harder to correct IMHO.

Get good tires, blizzaks have always been my choice and have served me well.

Actually the lack of torque in the 8 is good for winter driving as long as you know how to start rolling at low rpms.

That's so impressive it's almost unbelievable. Does your car get towed all winter? ;)

Yup, rwd in snow has more options than fwd. You can steer with either end, 1 braking option with the front, 2 with the rear.

OEM rims are 18x8

That's what I said :suspect:









:D: thanks, corrected.

Don't forget, skinny tires will get you through the snow. With fat tires, you're plowing through it.

with summer winding down, am on the lookout for a skinny bitcx not a fat one.
I want to make it through the winter. Wait. I do not mind PLOWING through it

Thank God no snow in Texas

Any one know where I can purchase toyo snow tires for a reasonable price? Links to your favorite source would be greatly appreciated!

I could help if you were in Canada, but a Montreal tire shop isn't any good to you!

Did you try clicking the link I posted? You know, there's tons of info in the bloody stickies...

If you were up north near Dallas, you could have ice. It's amusing watching Texans sliding around, after an ice storm, on the news.

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$988.00 plus tax and shipping. Mounted,balanced and ready to put on the car. hub centric rings and lug nuts included. from tire rack. not sure if the link will work for you.

You'll be pointed to stickies and FAQs out the wazoo on this one. The search button is your friend.

The very most important thing when driving a rear wheel drive sports car in the snow is to put the right bloody tires on the thing.

Last winter I picked up a set of 215/55R-17 Michelin X-Ice Xi2 tires, and the cheapest 17 inch rims I could fit (17x7.5 MSW Type 14 Silver) from Tire Rack. You don't need top of the line winter tires to commute on. Pick "decent" tires, but you don't need the best of the best - you won't be taking your baby and hanging the back end out in a drift setting track records.

The 215 width on a 17" rim gives you better winter performance than an 18x8. Narrower tire does better in deep snow, and the 17" rim allows for more sidewall to flex and absorb potholes.

Set me back under $1100 - INCLUDING shipping. (no TPMS though in Canada)

Ok. I checked tire rack and i may go with:

4 225/50R17 XL Michelin X-Ice Xi3 Blackwall

and 4 17x7.5 MSW Type 14 Silver Painted


Thats the cheapest rim and the tires are reasonable too. Comes about to about 1.2k.

Theres a warning though that comes up:
Important Notes:
The tire selected is for a smaller diameter wheel than what is installed as Original Equipment. Be sure to select tires to match the diameter of the wheel currently installed on the vehicle. Read More About Minus Sizing

but i guess that's just because the oems are 18'' right?

ill give these a shot and see what happens.

TRUST ME the rx8 isnt that bad of a car in winter. My advice is get some 17 inch steel rims (since they will take a beating). Knock off rims arent even worth the price unless youre worried about looks.

I bought my car in october 2009 and bought 17 inch steel wheels with dunlop draspic snow. I went with a slimmer tire but thicker so the ride is actually more comfortable. I put on 215/55/17. Its been 3 winters and Ive never had a problem.

Of course since the car is low you might get stuck in snow banks or parking on the street but you can always manage maneuvering out of there. Of course take the DSC out.

Of course in winter, dont mash the gas pedal especially turning corners. You will see traction control kicking in. Sometimes its not super efficient. I keep it on when im driving but when im in the city I put it off. On the first snowfall, go for a drive and get a feel of the car. Its really not that bad. Be responsible is all

cheers!

Why not the 215/55 combination? I think the rolling diameter turns out better, and you get more sidewall and a narrower tire. Trust me - if you have potholes OR snow, you'll want the narrower, taller rubber. It's probably cheaper too.

Seriously.

Give this a try: Tire size calculator

Im guessing its just a good baseline to start. When you choose a 17" winter tire and wheel package for the rx8 from tire rack, that is the size they choose for you.

get 17'' snow tires/wheels and you'll be fine.

been doing that for the last 3 winters and have no issues and a lot of fun when i want to

Get cheaper wheels from other mazda clubs selling their stockers....

Let me throw another opinion on tires.

It is a fact that buying snow tires is the way to go for obvious reasons; but a decent all-season tire will get you through as well. Many people hate all season tires for good reasons, but they can be a good compromise if you are on a tight budget - especially if you need to replace your current tires anyway.

... just bear in mind that all seasons are no longer "all seasons" after about the first 1/3 of their tread wear. They aren't suited to snow after that point.

Thanks for the input. I'd be more than happy to get these dimensions if people believe them to be better, but the problem is like the following poster said; Tire rack doesnt let me really select specific dimensions. It only lets me put in the rim size and then selects the tires based on that.

I called my local mechanic whos pretty fair with my other family members' cars and he is going to give me an estimate on 17'' blizzaks. I would prefer blizzaks because I hear they are slammin, but I am not sure the price he will charge. It'd be preferable if he could just order the tires and rims and then put em together and let me put em on but thats a service charge taken away from them im sure they dont want.

Ill see what his estimate is, and then see which is the cheaper deal. Originally I really wanted to try toyo tires, but they dont seem to be on tire rack, and I couldnt really find em searching through google. I tried searching for a specific type that was listed on stickies but still no go. Oh well, i dont really care as long as it's safe.

Thanks for the tip about the dsc as well. Is it safer to have that off in the winter?

In general, keep it on. You will need to turn it off periodically to get going up hills.

When you go to tire rack, look at the options. One is to search by vehicle, the other is to search by size.

I do a LOT of research on things before I buy. I debated long and hard between the 225/50 and the 215/55. (going to 17" from 18" was a no brainer). I personally have a full winter's season of driving on the 215 on my 07 GT. Without a doubt in my mind, I'd recommend the taller tire - for it's winter performance. The 225/50 will hold it's absolute corner speed better in the dry, but within the normal driving range, the 215 is a better tire for the winter. It will work better in the snow, should hydroplane less in the wet, and will not punish you or your car as much over potholes. You can still do some pretty spirited driving with the 215/55s - don't get me wrong there.

If I had to do it again, I'd probably get the 215 set even if they were the same price as the 225 set.

Alright,

How about these:

215/55R17 XL Michelin X-Ice Xi3 Blackwall

Michelin X-Ice Xi3

Think 4 of those bad boys would be alright?

yeah im pretty jealous. I have a decent amount of rough roads near me. I spent about 8-12 hours total installing blue demon eyes on my lights (baking, glueing, disassembling the front part of the car), and I noticed yesterday that 1 of the smaller rings has half seperated from the fixture. I'm not sure if it was a poor glueing job on my part or what, but man what a sad sad day. Still looks alright though, you can only tell if you're up close. cant wait to get some more forgiving tires.

Review: Michelin X-Ice Xi3
Tire Review: Michelin X-ICE Xi3 - Autos.ca

I bought my Xi2s last fall for the purpose running the RX8 in the winter. My target was that the winter tires needed to be really good in cold, rain, ice, slush and and an inch or two of snow. They needed to be above average (but not necessarily the best) at deeper snow. (I have a Subaru Impreza wearing Nokians for that). They also needed to not break the bank, as I only had one more season left on the summer tires, and needed to save some money for those.

I've been impressed with their performance. They are quieter than many other winter tires I've had. I didn't test them in deep snow - but the conditions I listed certainly were no problem. Tire Rack was a great vendor - the tires came shipped mounted and balanced with all the hardware that everyone else charges you a couple bucks here and there for (valve stems, hub centering rings, etc.). I didn't even have to adjust the tire pressure after installing them.

So - does that help any?

Yeah of course. the 1 tire rack review actually was a bit weird. some guy was running them in the summer and said they felt unsafe.

your review helps out a lot better. thanks! Think im gonna have to pick up a few :bowdown:

Here's my advice: Go with a dedicated set of 17" snow tires from mid or late November through the end of March.

The RX-8 is tied with a BMW 328i (shod with Nokians) as the best rwd car in the snow I've yet owned.

I've used both Blizzaks and iPikes (NOT Icebears, which SUCK), and the 8 has literally been better than almost any front wheel drive vehicle (with the Blizzaks or iPikes) I've owned, able to handle anything up to about 8" of snow easily (after a solid 8" and you'll get the front fascia pushing snow around).

I went with 225/55/17 snow tires. Thinner tires with taller sidewalls are better in snow.

I can't imagine you'll have any problems unless you live in Buffalo, in which case you're going to need a 4x4 with low range and some gnarly snow tires to make it through an average winter.

Has any one used the Hankook I-Cept Evo tires? My mechanic picked these out for me as the winter tires I thought I should buy. This mechanic is a friend not a place ripping me off so they arent just telling me this to get my $$. But I wondered if any1 had any experience with them.

If not, I am getting 215/55 Michelin X3s and a black rim with gold outline. They look decent. I wanted steel Rims but the mechanic who I am ordering from (as well as tire rack) didnt come up with any steel wheels. I'm sure if I looked harder I could find some somewhere.


Anyways, any1 heard anything about the I-cept?

Yep, I have them for my '11 Sport in the stock size, mounted on the stock rims.

I didn't really have the best winter last year to be able to give you a low down of light snow, deep snow, slush, etc, but I can tell you that they are a performance winter tire than an all out winter tire.

In other words, if you have a big huge heavy snow, stay home.

From what I felt last year, they did quite well in slush and actual snow, but if the road gets a dusting of snow, and the other vehicles turn it into black ice, these aren't the best. I had one moment last year with that kind of surface, and my car, while going perfectly straight, with just steady throttle, hit a road imperfection, shifted a couple of feet to the left, and then that was it, just continued on straight like nothing ever happened. Freaky feeling, but best possible outcome, in my opinion.

I recommend them, but you have to compare your winter expectations to the randomness that I get here in the Denver, CO area. I have way more days of dry roads in the winter, and that means mountain road fun, in the middle of January or February.

BC.

Yeah, I hear you. My area of new york has pretty unpredictable winters too. I do appreciate the review though.

I guess the situation I would anticipate being my worry is just snowy roads. I drive on mostly busy roads so usually the roads are too warm for ice to form at the hours that I drive it. When we do get a heavy snow storm though, there can be a considerable amount of snow on the road, and that's what I want to protect myself against.

I had a 97 accord before this car actually that I used as my DD. I had 2 low rate snow tires put on the 2 front wheels and went with that. I drove super slow on snowy roads but I would just slip and slide all over the place. I figured a lot of it was because how light the car was.

What i hate THE MOST MOST MOST, and I'm sure you guys have encountered this too, is when you are driving on a snowy road, and you drive out of the tracks in the road (where all the cars have been driving). May god have mercy on your soul.

I hate that, because you could easily lose control from going outside of them or crossing them.


My best car I had in the winter was my 2002 grand am. I loved that car more than anything. Great snow performance, decent gas mileage, and a cool sounding engine. unfortunately I totaled it on a road trip in canada though.

I've done the snow tire on front wheels only thing before too. The car would handle WAY better with snows on all 4 corners.

I have finally found the solution to that exact problem.
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A Subaru Impreza wearing Nokian winter tires.

Snow tires provide grip in the snow and ice.

Once that fact is firmly acknowledged, the vehicle behavior with snow tires on less than all 4 becomes very easy to understand.

On FWD cars:
- Snows on the front with summer or all season on the rear will give you drive traction and braking traction. You won't have much traction on the rear, if any at all. The traction balance is then very heavily balanced forward, which is known in racing as oversteer. It would be come very difficult to keep the rear of the car behind the front during turns and braking, making the car very difficult to control.
- Snows on the rear with summer or all season on the front will have a very rear balanced traction, keeping the rear of the car in line, but then you wouldn't have traction on the front for braking, acceleration, or turning, which means that you pretty much won't go anywhere, and if you do, you won't be able to change velocity or direction. The only viable braking ability you will have is with the e-brake, if you have one (and not just a foot operated parking brake like american cars)

RWD cars:
- Snows on the front but not the rear has a similar problem with FWD cars in respect to trying to keep the rear in line, however, you also lose the ability to accelerate as well
- Snows on the rear but not the front means that you can get going, and you can keep the rear in line. You have braking power with the e-brake AND engine braking via the rear tires. You just don't have braking power through the pedal and you still can't turn.

AWD cars:
- Snows on the front but not the rear is basically the same as the FWD car. Power going to the rear as well will make it even twitchier and harder to control under acceleration and braking, but steady on the throttle would be slightly more stable since the rear tires wouldn't be 'slipping', allowing the most amount of traction that they could possibly have, which still isn't much.
- Snows on the rear but not the front is basically the same as the RWD car. Power going to the front as well doesn't change anything at all, though under engine braking the fronts will be slowing at the same rate as the rears, maximizing their terrible grip to be faintly better than terrible.

So going less than 4 tires isn't really viable in any situation for FWD cars, can be done with RWD and AWD cars if the speed is kept low enough that the front tires still have enough grip to turn as needed. Would still be dangerous, and would require VERY heads up and aware driving, INCLUDING knowing exactly what you can and can't do, and how much braking ability you have via the rear. It's not something anyone will recommend via the internet, because it's not something that you can just read to fully grasp, and no one will believe that you fully grasped it anyway.



Note, this balance stuff is the same reason that a well balanced car on snow tires in the snow is still better handling than an SUV in the snow, or a FWD commuter car in the snow. Unbalancing the car's grip level on dry pavement in dry conditions within legal limits won't ever show itself to really be a problem. On snow it will become much much more apparent, and the car's level of balance becomes a much bigger asset.



And weight of the car has very little to do with grip level. My Miata on snow tires is a bit more of a snow monster than my 8, even though it's 800lbs lighter. It's all about tire tread, tire compound, and pounds per square inch on the contact patch. Going with a 10mm narrower tire (225 to 215) will improve grip by roughly the same amount as adding 132lbs of weight to the car. Only adding 132lbs of weight will take back some of that advantage when trying to stop or turn, since you have more weight to control.

I have nothing constructive to add. I learned how to drive in a 1968 Mustang with am manual transmission and a hopped up 5 liter. I loved and rarely got stuck.


The only thing I can add is this:

It is your first RWD car for the winter? Make sure you find a secluded lot somewhere, turn off the traction control (Like stop and hold the button down for 5+ seconds until every nanny is off) and have the best damn time of your life.

Thank me after the first good snow.

i once started driving backwards down a slight incline in about 1/4 inch inch of snow (most likely a lil ice under the snow also)....spent 10 mins just reversing and trying to build momentum to make it up that damn hill...the whole time fwd cars are just ziping past me.....i finnaly whipped it around and took a 15 min detour lol

You had summer tires on didn't you.... I was doing the same thing driving forward up a steep hill into work every winter past SUVs and pickups... Yes, with my 8.

Well, I finally ordered snow tires for my 8. I went with michelin Michelin X-Ice Xi3 studless snow tires. I ordered a set of 4. I went with 215/55-17''.

I originally wanted to get steel wheels with them but I am ordering them through my local mechanic and he claimed his supplier did not have steel wheels fitting the tire size I wanted.

Instead, I just went with a cheapER pair of O.Z. david 17x7.5'' wheels seeing as they do not fit on the 8'' ones. Tire Rack does the hard part of putting the tires on, balancing, putting tpms which is nice because all I have to do is slap em on.

Ill post a few pics once I get them, but I am excited to drive this in the snow, seeing as up until now I have only had cars with at most 2 snow tires on the drive wheels. It's been awful.

Sounds like you will be all set. I too can vouch for the 8 being a capable winter car if it has snow tires. I have Pirelli snow sports on 17 inch wheels. They handle Ohio winters fine, and they handled Chicago winters before that.


Posted from Rx8club.com App for Android

My current tires are 225 45 r18s. Will the 55 r17s still work?

I got nokian hakkapelitta 7's rated number one snow tire available in the U.S. and other then the big wolverine scratches I left in my driveway I really have no complaints in the snow. I drove with the 2 feet we got and barely plowed streets and the nose did push around some snow but it did just fine. I did need to keep the traction control off due to its extreme aggressiveness every time I touched the gas and engaged the clutch. All and all nothing has stopped me yet except mounds higher then the car itself.


Posted from Rx8club.com App for Android

get yourself a beater, i live in NY and have a 95 integra 1,500 but reliable and great in the snow