sup3rbad

Ignorance is bliss.
I love this car. I can't stop driving it. I find reasons to drive it. But if there are problems. I think people like Ike are just what we need. Otherwise we'd all be driving around on POS (pieces of sh*t) and not be able to do anything. I give homage to the rabblerousers that call attention to problems. I doubt Ike is here to discredit Mazda. On another note. I wouldn't mind if the RX-8 didn't sell well... I for one enjoy it when a car is rare (i think it's part of the appeal of the 3rd gen rx-7). Although it is bad news for the people hoping for the FE

Ike

Thanks man, I'm happy you love your car so much. I really have no problem with Mazda and think they make some great cars. My best friend owns a 6S and it's one hell of a car for the money , the 8 is great as well but I just don't get why so many people want to turn a blind eye to the issues. I orginally came here looking for a replacement car for my girlfriend and just have general interest in the car, I was left disappointed by the power and spoke out about it. I've been defending myself and other cars on here ever since. The people that have spoken out against me so strongly that I have a little hatred for the car at times. But overall I like the car quite a bit and wish it had met my expectations, which were perhaps a bit high after being so in love with the FD for so long, but also very leary.

I wanted the car to have similar push to an FD, not to a RSX type S or GTI. I also wanted it to be a relatively trouble free engine unlike the FD's, but it's starting to look like that may not be the case. Here's to hoping Mazda finds more HP and whatever it is the might be ailing the Renesis. I know the HP might be enough for those of you that bought the car, but I know I'm not the only one that was hoping for a little more thrust to go along with the great handling.

Ike

JeRKy 8 Owner

Ill bet money thatthe Rx8s willbe more common on the streets by the endof next quarter like around March 2004. The G35 startedoff very slow in my area andthat is usuallya bad sign in Miami but after 5 or6 months passed they were everywhere. You cantgo for a drive today inMiami without seeing a G35 somewhere. WhileI dont think the Rx8 will be as succesful andpopular as the G35 and definitely not like the explosionof the 350z it will stillbe more commonthan it is now. Its only been available w/o a preorder for what like 3 months?? Thereare a lot of people out there who really love the waythe car looks and Ithink in another couplemonths it will really catch on. I could be verywrong here but Imjust saying that its waytoo early to determine if the Rx8s are doing well until atleast 6 or 7 months have passed. Justso you know I wouldbe happy if there werent too many Rx8s outthere b/c it would makeme feel like I have a rare car. I still only see two or three Rx8s a month. I know that wont last by next year.

New Yorker

You've been - oops, excuse me - you been doing "a lot of reading and research"? "similar numbers are coming back for repairs"? Please be specific. How many are coming back for repairs due to transmission - er, I mean, transmition - or engine failures? What percentage of RX-8's sold are coming back? Did you survey all RX-8 owners? If not, what percentage of RX-8 owners did you survey in order to get your "numbers"?
You're "pretty sure"? Again, with all due respect, who the hell are you? Please… refer me to some of the articles you've written for automotive publications.

Your post is written in a way that makes your casual mental musings come across as facts. My suggestion to you: do your homework and produce some numbers before making such dramatic pronouncements. Oh, and one other thing - learn how to write.

-=Zeqs=-

My main concern with the RX-8 and RX-7 being scrapped would be that they those that are learning how to work on rotaries would find the skill unneeded once again. With that said, there would eventually be VERY few people that could work on the rotaries, which means...sub-standard workmanship and over-charged service fees.

Ioman

So, I sort of skipped ahead through some of the posts. Apparently Mazda is planning on selling 1000 RX8's per month.

http://www.alljapanesecars.com/newsv...&m=04&y=03&n=5

They also have in excess of 1,600 orders in Europe according to this article:

http://uk.cars.yahoo.com/031009/4/1rjlz.html

I just searched briefly and found these. I did not find anything negative. At the peak of the RX7 Mazda sold 1000 in a couple months. So RX8 sales are already betther than the rx7's.

cwerdna

The X5 has a HORRIBLE reliability record and has had a boatload of recalls. If you add up how many it's had for each model year since it's introduction, it's at over 17 now!

I hate to break it to you, but automakers LOTS of parts from outside suppliers and don't make everything themselves, not even close. I was a Toyota plant tour in Japan (in Aichi prefecture) a few weeks ago and they mentioned they get parts from over 400 suppliers. I was also at a Nissan plant tour 4 days later in Oppama they mentioned 120 suppliers.

Bad parts DO matter. Parts make up your car! If bad parts (doesn't matter who makes them, Mazda or supplier) go on your car, and they fail, well, what do you usually take in? Your car.

On a side note, when I was at Tokyo Motor Show, I found the makers of the interior door panels for my Z. I found another company that made the shifter for it. I found the Calsonic Kansai makes tons of stuff for Nissan, like the exhaust systems, gauges for my Z, the HVAC controls for my Z, and so on. They make dashes for some (maybe all?) Nissans.

Back to the original topic of this thread... it's really hard to judge reliability of something from anecdotal posts on message boards. Someone will have some sort of problem on any car message board (I can speak to this from maxima.org and my350z.com).

However, it is a bit troubling that I counted 5 unique people so far on here who have had their engines replaced. Given that the RX8 has been out for only a short period of time (so people couldn't have put on a huge # of miles yet), and that 8166 have been sold in the US. It's troubling to see 5.

I can't think of a single person who's had to have an unmodded (or lightly modded) 350Z's engine replaced under warranty. Sure I know about the guy who blew out his engine running a 375 shot of NOS on stock internals, but he was insane if you ask me.

For comparison, in the US, Nissan has sold 32,461 350Zs so far this year + 13,252 last year.

However, yes, there have been numerous complaints of maunal transmission probs over there and I recall seeing some people getting their's replaced.

Ike

I'm sure I'll get flamed for repeating this info but oh well...

If reports are correct from Canzoomer, the number of engines that have been replaced in North America is around 70, and this was a little bit ago so it may be higher. Mazdas projected sales goal for year end in the US was 18K so it doesn't look like they will come close to making that mark, however Oct. sales goals were promising and may carry steam into the next year so they can shoot for 30K anually like they are hoping for.

Tranny problems seem to be popping up on all types of performance cars, EVO, G35, Z, WRX, SRT-4, all are having tranny issues, I only know of a few trannys that have been replaced in the 8 but I'm not ready to call it a real problem.

Id love to see how Mazda (or any other car manufacturer) tested the original cars and how many of them they had for testing purposes, what problems occured during testing. Did they take a few cars and just drive the hell out of them for 40 or 40k miles to see what the end result would be? Do they put them in temperature controlled chambers in harsh conditions to try to accelerate possible rusting? Info like that would be really interesting to me.

Do car manufacturers with better initial build quality go through more extensive testing or is it more a reflection of how well they build the cars and chose the parts that go in the cars. Has anyone ever seen any articles about the things I speak of, I would love to read them.


Ike

shift_zoom8

IkeWRX,

Ok eunuch, I know you like to think you're just another wine-tasting gay male who likes to be heard and pampered, but this time you've really outdone your pretentious, luxuriously supercilious self.

shift_zoom8

And as for you, RX7FD3,

If you write "especulation" one more time, I will have to ask IkeWRX to castrate you. And, believe me, IkeWRX would love to do that.

-=Zeqs=-

Not flaming, but if you consider the G35 a Nissan 350, since they share pretty much the same power plant, then two have gone in for engine replacements. A guy in Camarillo, CA blew a head gasket on a dyno run with 100 shots of nitrous. A blown head gasket, and he got a new engine, transmission, clutch...ya...under warranty. A big over-kill on the warranty if you ask me, but hey, good customer service, even though the guy didn't deserve it.

The Infiniti G35 and Nissan 350's have very sturdy power plants, but that is due to their years and years of engine technology refinement. Since Nissan has not had to put their piston engines on the back burners for close to a decade like Mazda has.

-=Zeqs=-

Well...the issue with Mazda, as it may seem...they have produced a crapload of 6 speeds, and not many A/T's. I don't blame them because they are trying to sell it as a sports car, and true sports cars should be stick shift, however, there are a lot of people that simply love the body style, but cannot afford to get a stick shift car, due to lack of driving experience, and traffic in their geographical area. On top of that...most of their cars are "LOADED", which puts the cars out of the price range that a good portion of people are willing to spend.

To their benefit though, they have enough of a cult following as is, that is willing to wait for their desired cars to the point that they order them with a 2 month wait. My girlfriend and myself being on the list. I know of several other users waiting for their cars to arrive as well with money deposited and everything.

DMRH

Wow, a lot of wrong info getting posted here.

The FD RX-7 (92-02) didn't (nearly) bankrupt Mazda.

Mazda's mass expansion at the end of the Japanese economic bubble did that. Read the late 80's. The FD RX-7 was the right car at the wrong time. Plus overpriced to boot.

Mazda tried to do what Toyota did with the Lexus channel & opened a string of brand names such as Eunos, Autozam, Cronos, Efini etc. By the time Ford where forced to buy a controlling share in 95, the whole range was bleeding red ink. Ford simply said "Stop" to all no profitable cars in the range.

Thats why the series-7 (96-98) RX-7 wasn't exported to the USA & Europe. Thats why the JC Cosmo (90-95) was dropped plus other great cars.

The FD Rx-7 ran from Nov-91 till Aug-02 for around 65,000 cars.

Since starting production of the RX-8 back in MAY-03, Mazda have sold 37,500 of them till the end of SEP-03.

So, in 5-months of production, the RX-8 has gotten past the half way mark on the FD RX-7 which went for almost 11 years.

Mazda should produce over 50,000 2003 models this year. Whilst demand should reduce slightly for 2004, expect nearly 80,000 coming off the line in 2004. Thats getting back to the huge sales years of the mid 80's with the series-4 (86-88) RX-7. In 1986 alone, over 85,000 FC RX-7's where sold just in the USA.

Mazda (like all major companies) look at the BIG picture, not the little ones many are suggesting here.

Sneakyracer

Maybe it is because a lot of non owners are POTENTIAL owners and like to inquire a little bit more before dumping $30,000 on a car!


We dont wanna **** off owners but lets get real. Most of you here just wanna justify your purchase, understandably, and deny any alegations.

We, potential owners, are skeptical about the RX8 and rightly so. I mean Mazda has the right BAIT on paper, 238/247 hp, milage etc. It HAS the looks both Inside and Out, no question about that. But what if its only a good facade covering a lemon?

When we question some facts MOST RX8 owners all they do is flame and post STUPID arguments!!! That is the reality. Questioning whether dynos are accurate or not....pulllleeeeaaazzzee. Stating that Power isnt important, that might be the case for some folks but certainly not the majority purchasing a quasi sports car. How about Milage??? I have even read here that "after 20,000 miles the car will have the advertised power and milage" thats just MORONIC.


The Facts are there and some of you have faced the music, bad milage, broken engines, busted trannies.

If that happened to me I would be FURIOUS at MAZDA, NOT at the potential owners that post on this site to inquire on the car.

And yes, those who try to downplay the sitation only make it worse! Since the topics are lengthened and increase in frequency. On the street, the RX8 has a so so reputation already. Enough that it affects trade ins and resale of the car. That is NOT good.

gord boyd

I believe in lots of research too and the risk is we happy owners
keep it too much to ourselves about what a groundbreaking car this is. We all have been asked by personal friends about things like driving in snow (a great positive response on these boards has been forwarded to my friend) but contrary to what sneakyracer is saying, I think en masse we keep the thrills to ourselves, we are a cautious lot. But the success of this car is building and it doesn't bother me (nor the engineers working on extensions of this architecture at Mazda) that there are doubters out there. And I'm not interested in debating this--I'm off for another fantastic drive.
If the jury still out, so be it. I'm happy to be a groundbreaker.

gord boyd

Elara

Ike, where are you getting your numbers? They are trying to sell 30k cars a year TOTAL in the US in 12 months- not 18k cars in 5 1/2 months. Since the middle of July through October, they sold 8166 RX-8s in the US. So, in three and a half months, they sold more than a quarter of estimated sales for the year. That would be not quite 28k cars a year. Not exactly that far off- and since sales at first dipped, and are now going back up, I don't think they'll have too much problem hitting the mark. However, as usual, if you can back that statement up, I'll admit I was wrong.

And about the engine failure- that's less than 1% of all the 8s in the US and Canada with problems. And that's IF the numbers are really that high. However, aside from problems reported on boards on the internet, there have been no reports in the news, through Mazda or through any news agency, about these engine failures being a common problem. Don't you think SOMEONE would be reporting on this, the way they jumped all over the hp issue and the rust issue on the Mazda6?

This entire thread is really silly. Who makes generalize sweeping comments without backing them up? What's the point? Do you have something against the car? If you do, DON'T BUY IT! It's very simple. Do you people really feel the need to get your kicks from annoying people you don't know on the internet? You're not changing the minds of people who have bought the car (we form our own opinions, good or bad, since we drive it on a daily basis), and if you can't make an informed decision by doing actual research and NOT paying attention to speculation, you shouldn't be buying ANY car anyway.

renotse

"We will stomp to the top with the wind in our teeth."
George Mallory, 1924

"No one remembers who climbed Mount Everest the second time."
Na Nook

Let the doubters play it safe and follow our lead. The non-adventurous will never understand the thrill of blazing a trail or securing the ropes for those that follow.


"Because it is there."
George Mallory (1886-1924)

The most perfect reason to own a RX8

renotse

This was from a different but similar thread here on RX8 Forum. The negative propaganda on this board is approaching epidemic proportions. It's time for the pro-RX8 people and owners to draw the line a squash th BS.

Thanks, Elara for your intervention by calling Ike on his BS. it's a first step in right direction.

Sneakyracer

BS, tell that to the people whose RX8 wont start, to those who had blown engines and trannies and to those experiencing poor milage and performance.

Sure, blown trannies and engines arent high % occurances by nature but im sure but there must be some data that proves in some cars, like the RX8, is higher than other vehicles. That data is mighty hard to come by since mazda wont release it of course.

Poor milage is extremely common in the RX8 since most here are in fact experiencing it.

If you all think its BS well , you are calling a lot of RX8 owners that post those problems here Liars. Maybe they wanted some attention and fabricated all these stories about problems with their car to amuse themselves.

We, potential RX8 owners, dont like to hear all those problems because the RX8 is a unique product. It has a lot of qualities cars, like the 350z, in its market dont have. It has unique style inside and out, 4 doors, 50/50 weight dist, good susp. etc.

I would LOVE to hear that the RX8 has good milage, its realiable, has 205 whp+, etc. That would be great, since instead of debating the purchase I would be in the car without any concerns regarding whether the engine / tranny will blow. As it is now im hoping Mazda corrects the probems in future production runs and holding my purchase. At least until more reliable info comes in.

allstate

THE SKY IS FALLING! THE SKY IS FALLING! Are you even listening to what we are saying? All us owners are saying is that this "Mazda sucks...the 8 is a failure" talk is extremely premature and unnecessary. If you want to discuss the problems that the 8 has had thus far then FINE. Discuss till blue in the face. ALL NEW CARS HAVE PROBLEMS...for the last time. What we are tired of is all non-owners basing all of their information on these problems which owners have mentioned to conclude that the 8 is, in your words, a "lemon". And we are not trying to 'downplay the situation'. All we are trying to do is put out the FLAMES. We owners are just asking this....be levelheaded and don't flip out because of a few problems. We are tired of threads being started by non owners entitled "The RX-8's aren't doing well". It is extremely premature to call the 8 a failure.

Sneakyracer

Allstate, exactly, read my last line. Think you missed it...

again, hope problems get fixed in future production runs of the rx8. Unfortunally it takes a LOT of effort to coerce Mazda into making significant changes. Now more than ever, online discussions do get noticed. As evindenced by how VW has listened to the VWVortex Forums.

I havent said anywhere the RX8 is a failure, its just that its a risky purchase thats all. Not all samples are bad but a higher percentage than average are experiencing problems. The car is almost right. Anyway, if you know that must first year models have problems maybe you shouldve waited till next year to get the car.

And these problems are NOT exclusive to Mazda. Take VW with its huge window regulator problems on the latest chasis. Also coil pac problems in VW/Audi 1.8t engines. It took a LOT for them to admit the problem and issue TSBs and inform al ther dealer network to not question those repairs and do em nicely.

Omicron

DMRH, you sound like you have good, accurate numbers. May I ask where and how you found them?

Kev

Justify purchase? Deny what? ... your spelling mistakes?

Tell me, did you survey the entire planet or did you some how use your huge brain to read everyone's opinions directly out of their brains.

Personally I think your IQ must be so low that you're in danger of stabbing yourself in the eye every time you mummy makes you eat your vegetables.

Anyway...

Does the very fact that my 8 runs perfectly and is heaven to drive means that I should, for some strange reason only know by moronic trolls, put up with crap from people that do not own the car and get their jollies by preening themselves everytime someone that own an 8 has a failure.

If every other car on the planet was 100% perfect, the non RX8 owning ***** heads here, that bleat about problems with the RX8, could have a viable reason to crap on. BUT THEY DON'T!

Tell me, when did Mazda say that they refuse to make any RX8 that has a failure less that perfect under warranty??? NEVER!!!

If you own an 8 and you have a problem, tell us all. Please tell us the complete and detailed story.

If you don't own an 8 or have an interest in purchasing one and all you can do is crap on with negatives, then the fact is you are a jealous and vindictive pea brained fool that just loves to annoy people for attention ... the only other alternative reason for your nature is that you have a vested interest in running down the RX8.

Ioman

To put things into perspective, just about every 350Z out right now is having probalems with major toe-in which is feathering the tires, wearing them down incorrectly, causing major road noise and other problems.

If engines on the RX8 were really dieing, then I am sure it would be in SOME publication that we would have heard of.

As far as the RX8's not starting, want to know what is really weird? When I went to my Mazda dealer to test drive these cars, they had about 4 dead ones on the lot! The salesman said they needed new batteries? Whats up with that?

renotse

BAM!!!