NickG

Hi all. I'd be interested in any comments from former 325i drivers who now own the Rx8. I'm considering trading mine but am a bit unconvinced so far. I've had only one test drive so far, in a very low mileage demonstrator. Brakes, steering and gearbox all seemed well up to BMW standard, but must admit I was a bit underwhelmed by the performance. With salesman in the car I didn't push beyond 7500rpm, and the car was obviously very tight. But subjectively it felt less punchy in the midrange than my Bimmer. Certainly doesn't feel like 0-60 in 5.9 secs that's for sure.

I love the look of the car and the clever doors. Interior trim is interesting but some bits are flimsy and materials seem well off BMW standards, which left me wondering about wear,rattles etc as the car ages. My 40,000mile BMW is tight and completely rattle free - the first car I have ever owned that has managed that, and I'm not keen to revert to the norm in this area.

So please guys give me your thoughts, plus and minus vs the 3 series.

Thanks

elmalloc

I didn't own a 325i, bu tI test drove it. THe steering is too stiff for me. I didn't get to try out the RX8 yet, but will on Monday. Did you look into an IS300 also? Only 215 HP on that guy though.

BTW My honda is at 70K with no rattles and no problems for the 10 years I've owned it. Then again, maybe you don't call it a car. =)

I think it's known the low end torque is weak on the RX8, though I didn't feel it on the 325i either. From what I felt today, the 325i does have better midrange torque than the RX8.

-ELmO

-=Zeqs=-

I personally question the 5.9 second 0-60 on the current production models. In order for the RX-8 to truly lay down the 5.9's, it'd really need 250 horses. It's got 238, at the crank. That's not to say it's a cow on acceleration, it's just a rev-based power engine. Like you said, with the salesman in the car, you weren't able to rev past 7500 RPM. Only way to truly benefit from the RENESIS is to take it all the way up to 9000 RPM.

Up to 4000 RPM...the RX-8 is just like any econobox as far as acceleration is concerned.

4000 RPM - 6500 RPM, think high schooler's rice rocket.

6500 RPM - 9000 RPM is where Seabiscuit comes to life.

6speed8

The RX-8 does not 'pull' like most cars (cars with higher torque), but it does gain speed fairly quick. It is a very deceptive car in that you don't 'feel' the speed as it builds. Once you get used to the lack of sensation of being push back in your seat, you'll realize the car does move quite well, it's just that your butt-o-meter doesn't know it. I actually prefer it the RX-8 way, the car remains poised and smooth while it gains speed, but I guess some people have to pushed back into their seats to believe they are moving.

Ioman

No offense, but the 325i cannot compete. My father has a 330ci and used to have a Mercedes CLK and he comments daily how much nicer the RX-8 is. It is just so much more fun to drive than the 330Ci, let alone the 325.

I have no rattles in my RX-8, the 300 watt Bose sound system is more superior to the 325's Harmon Kardon system (which sounds terrible).

The BMW 325 is a fantastic car, just not as sporty as the RX-8.

Oh and just for the record, my fathers car has a Dinan chip in it and he still thinks the RX-8 is more fun to drive. You just don't get the same prestige as you do in the Bimmer. I mean it's a Mazda, most people think they are owned by Ford and made in the US. (Ford owns 20% of Mazda and the RX-8 is made in Japan). You will have better reliability in the 8 for sure over a European car.

Hercules

325 is a great car... but when you throw that into a corner, and then the 8... you will know all the difference in the world.

If you can't tell the difference... then buy the car you can more afford, because you won't appreciate what the 8 has been built for. However if you want to explore insatiable handling cars... then the 8 will crave that appetite. Much moreso than the 325 or 330.

The only car I like more than the RX-8 right now, is the S2000. I drove the 3 series and came away very unimpressed though it was a decent car that had a luxurious label and interior... it's not what I wanted in a car.

mqandil

I owned a 2002- 325i with Dinan suspension, sway bars, Exhaust, chip, and cold air intake. I sold mine last month with 25,000 miles, and bought fully loaded RX-8. I loved my beemer, and I still miss it, but I am not sorry. The 325i weaknesses are:
1- Steering is over boosted.
2- Sensitive to Cross winds, and seems unsettled
3- have trouble holding the line
4- feels heavy while cornering
5- Some what follows grooves on bad roads with most 17" tire brands
6- slow steering response
Strength
1- great engine, and sound especially with modifications
2- sharp handling, but still not a match for the RX-8 if BMW 9 out of 10. RX-8 gets 20 out of 10
3- Great inerior, room and confort
4- Awsome delear support- you really do not how good you have it until you get to visit a Mazda delear
5- proven reliability- Mazda Unknow, so far so good though
6- Great tranny, though RX-8 is funner to shift with the short throw, and surprisingly smooth
7- Quiter. RX-8 is loud
8- Gas consumption is great. 22-24 city- 28-30 Hwy, compared to 16 city, 20 Hwy. which is in my opinion is the RX-8 only flaw.

As for the RX-8 strength
1- Handling
2- Handling
3- Handling
4- Much Faster, even with all BMW mods
5- More stable at all conditions
6- Surprisingly comfortable at rough roads, better than BMW, and do not follow grooves
7- better looking inside and out. Interior is nicer, and exterior is a killer
8- sharper quicker steering. Just right
9- Car is settled at all conditions, and feels far more stable than BMW
10- Babe magnet. Honest, I never got a single look while driving beemer
11- Fun, Fun, Fun

Said all that, I am glad I traded my BMW, although I still miss it

If you have a specific question, please do not hesitate to ask me, as I really understand what you are going through. Take my advise, and get the 8

Mark

racerdave

I also test drove both... a lot!

My first drive -- and love -- was the RX-8. I loved the handling, the gearbox, the clutch, the way everything felt integrated.

Then, after driving others (IS300, G35) I drove the 325i. I loved the better torque curve -- it's more accessible than the RX-8 in daily driving. I also think the feel that the 325 has is close to the 8.

But I'm choosing the purity of the RX-8 feel over the 325. Once you push it, the 325 is a sedan and the RX-8 is a sports car.

Plus, you get a torsen LSD in the 8, as well as lighter weight.

Another factor, at least for me, is that I work for a Ford Partner and can get "S-Plan" pricing... which amounts to taking off a little more than $3K off the sticker price with NO haggling. That means a $5k savings over a 325.

Hope that helped a bit...

Gord96BRG

[nitpick]
Mazda IS owned and controlled by Ford. Ford owns 33.4% of Mazda, which under Japanese law gives them controlling interest. Mazda is a division of Ford just like Volvo, Aston Martin, and Jaguar.
[/nitpick]

Regards,
Gordon

mr_digital_uk

Forgetting about performance for a minute ....

In the UK during my daily commute I see a BMW 3 series approximately every 1 minute ....

I see another RX-8 about once a month

Ioman

Thanks for the correction, although it did not do a bit of good in helping my arguement.

*kill the trolls!!!!!!

Cyclonus

You only need to do one thing to see for yourself what kind of car the RX-8 is in... take a curve fast. That tells you the whole story. Straight line acceleration is plenty quick, but it's obviously not the fastest 0 - 60 car in the universe. But I can't think of a single other 4-passenger car in existence that delivers handling like the RX-8.

I'll tell you one thing... go for a test drive again, and push it all the way up to 9000 RPM's... unless you're at a really uptight dealership, the salesman will have no problem with it, in fact he's done it himself when he's test driven the car.

revhappy

I can think of one. :D

carnut

There's another thing to consider, and I hope it doesn't sound shallow. If you buy a little BMW or Lexus, you're buying their cheapest model and everyone knows it. Some may assume you can't afford a bigger one. With the RX-8, I think it's obvious you bought it for what it is, not because you "settled for" an inexpensive model of a high-end marque. At least that's how I hope it looks to everyone. I have to agree with the attention drawn by the 8.

h0rde

well I have an 8, and my mom has a 2003 325i convertible. You want me to go find out?

scorp76

Or you'd have to know how to drive something other than an auto.

NickG

Thanks to everyone for the great input! Some interesting views here and encouraging enough for me to give the car another go. As many of you have pointed out, it's at nine tenths and above that the Rx8 is likely to show its true mettle. That means screwing it right out to 9000rpm and finding a really decent, familiar piece of road to try it out on.

racerdave

Mmm... I'm not sure you need to take it to 9/10ths to tell the difference. Maybe you need to rev it out harder, but that's about it.

To me, even at 7/10s or so, the RX-8 was more fluid and had better handling... but then again it is a sports car. It just felt a little more "hard-wired" into my nervous system.

93rdcurrent

I traded in my M3. I don't know about the 325 but I will say this: My RX-8 was cheaper by far then buying the '04 M3. If I consider the hp loss on the 8 I still got a better deal. I can always put in FI after Mazdaspeed puts it out and still come out on top $$$ wise.

jtimbck2

I owned a 2000 BMW 328i, which is very close in performance to a newer 325i. I can understand why you're trying to make this comparison, but it's a very difficult comparison to make (the 325 vs. the 8). For one thing, you're never going to get the same low-end and mid-range punch out of the 8's rotary that you get out of BMW's inline 6. You have to look at the total package (steering, braking, handling) not just at acceleration. And, as others have pointed out, where the 8 shines is in the high RPMs.

Good luck making your decision -- I know it's probably a tough one to make! I'm glad I didn't have to make it -- I had already gotten rid of my 328 in favor of a pickup truck (for financial reasons), so I didn't switch directly from the 328 to the RX-8!

racerdave

The E46's are very nice. Great cars, and I'd be totally happy with one.

But the price difference I alluded to earlier plus what jt said:

is what seals the 8 for me. The total package is just more involving and rewarding -- for me.

No, I'm not happy about the reduced MPG, but I should get over that... as long as gas doesn't hit $4 a gallon! :D

But when you're down to the choices you are... there's no way you can lose! :D

NickG

You're absolutrely right about looking at the total package, but again that's a tricky comparison for me, as the E46 is an amazingly complete car, with no real weaknesses anywhere.

I have one more dumb question: I've read that the RX8's basic setup is towards mild understeer. Is there enough torque to ge the thing the to oversteer at anything below breakneck speeds on winding public roads? My 325 with BMW sport suspension is absolutely neutral. I can serve it up with understeer, gentle four wheel drift or progressive oversteer depending on the throttle. The faster you go the more neutral it gets. From my initial session, I think the Rx8 can probably outsteer the bimmer ( great steering weighting, fluidity and feedback) but is its attitude as adjustable?

Atlas

Oversteer/understeer......... i think it all just depends on your attitude and driving style that you adopt with the car. Sure more hp would give you more sideways action but check out the Top Gear review of the car.... no shortage of sideways action there

moto_monkey

Understeer/Oversteer,

I agree that these aspects are greatly influenced by your driving style. Like most production cars, the RX-8 will push at the limit with steady state throttle, and will duck back into the turn when you back off the throttle. Most cars do this because it is safe and instinctual for most drivers. The car starts to steer wide, the driver takes foot off gas, the car tightens up the turn.

The cool thing about well balanced cars is that you can transfer the weight forward and aft by using the throttle, which will make the car understeer or oversteer.

I just did a drivers clinic and the chassis close to the limit is awesome. It does nothing to surprise you, and it is very steerable with the throttle. Very neutral, VERY stable, sets quickly and gives great feedback on where it is tracking. The instructors that drove the car thought that is was the best handling car out of the box, and they have driven most anything. These guys race cars and they know handling.

I think another great thing about the handling of the car is that the chassis is adjustable, moreso than cars that use a trailing arm or strut design. A simple alignment is all it takes to dial in a healthy dose of camber. This can be difficult to get with other designs, especially if you lower the car with stiffer springs.

When this chassis is driven with fluidity (not me, the instructors), it is an experience that is really hard to explain. Like it was stated before, driving around town doesn't show the depth of the chassis. Even a spirited ride on some twisties won't show you it's true potential. If you can get it on a track, have a professional instructor make the car dance, you will be a believer.

Cheers,

Bruce

Atlas

I urge people to go watch that Top Gear video.... you can see the awesome balance of the car as he just throws it around