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Is this the rock bottom for RX-8s?

Old 11-19-2018, 06:02 PM
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Saw a red 8 at a small dealer up the road. Looked nice. It lasted about a month and was gone. Curious I went and asked the salesperson how much they got for it. It was a 2007 GT with about 36,000 miles. They sold it for $8995.
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Old 01-06-2019, 06:33 PM
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Originally Posted by Petscar View Post
New to the forum. I can rep!y to an existing thread but cannot initiate my own thread. What am I missing?
you are missing the 30 day 10 post requirement before being able to start threads
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Old 01-07-2019, 08:24 PM
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Thumbs up

Hello! I am one of those guys don't get me wrong, Im not just gonna lower the car like crazy and scratch the **** out of it, but I see value in the RX8 as a very cheap project car for the summer (I'll try my best to build it over the summer, yes I try to read my daily dose of tutorials before getting to this conclusion). RX8s have hit rock bottom certainly because of two reasons imo: people don't like the Renesis, but they refuse to change engines. If more people were taking the time to swap easier 13Bs in these chassis, this would still be a viable chassis and it would sell slightly better. It's kinda like the story of the Silvia: 240s were the pisspoor man's drifting dream for a couple years and you could buy an S13 for chump change... but obviously the drift tax got in the way of most of that, and RB and JZ swaps didn't help the cause.

Im very passionate for the RX8 since it might be the true "AE86" of my time: not as an affordable hatchback or coupe that is lightweight and fun to drive, but as the dirt cheap underdog that refuses to make power no matter how much money put into it, so you drop the weight to momentum drift!!!!! *my tranny oil is dripping*...

As a huge fan of miatas and rx machines, I believe there still is a place for the RX8, not as a sporty premium 4 door coupe but as a ratrod drifter that'll take corners better than redneck Rusty's mustang. Ahhh fantasies... making cars look better in a hot wheels styled scenario.

Lets see if the RX9 will breathe life in the RX8 somehow.... kinda like the FD did for the FC...??
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Old 01-07-2019, 09:04 PM
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there will be no rx9 at least with a rotary engine. its dead jim. sad truth
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Old 01-07-2019, 09:36 PM
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Originally Posted by THEDOOMEDHELL View Post
Hello! I am one of those guys don't get me wrong, Im not just gonna lower the car like crazy and scratch the **** out of it, but I see value in the RX8 as a very cheap project car for the summer (I'll try my best to build it over the summer, yes I try to read my daily dose of tutorials before getting to this conclusion). RX8s have hit rock bottom certainly because of two reasons imo: people don't like the Renesis, but they refuse to change engines. If more people were taking the time to swap easier 13Bs in these chassis, this would still be a viable chassis and it would sell slightly better. It's kinda like the story of the Silvia: 240s were the pisspoor man's drifting dream for a couple years and you could buy an S13 for chump change... but obviously the drift tax got in the way of most of that, and RB and JZ swaps didn't help the cause.

Im very passionate for the RX8 since it might be the true "AE86" of my time: not as an affordable hatchback or coupe that is lightweight and fun to drive, but as the dirt cheap underdog that refuses to make power no matter how much money put into it, so you drop the weight to momentum drift!!!!! *my tranny oil is dripping*...

As a huge fan of miatas and rx machines, I believe there still is a place for the RX8, not as a sporty premium 4 door coupe but as a ratrod drifter that'll take corners better than redneck Rusty's mustang. Ahhh fantasies... making cars look better in a hot wheels styled scenario.

Lets see if the RX9 will breathe life in the RX8 somehow.... kinda like the FD did for the FC...??
If you are thinking of 13B-REW...

​​​​​​​Actually, I am don't really have a fever over turbocharged engines in general.

People go crazy over boosting engine while I am still leaning towards "no replacement for displacement." The irony, I know.

I recall having a conversation with a WRX(non-STi model) owner and he told me that one thing he had trouble with when Autocrossing is that sometimes, the boost can be pretty unpredictable, kick in at the wrong time and off the to sides you go.

Sure the RX-8 is slow, but I still way prefer this over that X3 2.0turd-bo I rented. At least I don't have to count 3 Mississippis and wait for the car to ram my skull into the back seat when I press on the gas pedal. Life is too short to wait for turbo lags.

If I want something that goes fast in a straight line, I'd save up some money and invest in a car with NA or supercharged V8.

Last edited by UnknownJinX; 01-07-2019 at 09:39 PM.
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Old 01-07-2019, 10:15 PM
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properly sized turbos can spool pretty quick, the lag comes from chasing big dyno #s. take a ride in a factory fd and one pushing 500+hp its a huge difference in power delivery
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Old 01-07-2019, 11:05 PM
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Originally Posted by 200.mph View Post
properly sized turbos can spool pretty quick, the lag comes from chasing big dyno #s. take a ride in a factory fd and one pushing 500+hp its a huge difference in power delivery
It's the good'ld "pick two triangle": Cheap, response, power, pick two.

I have driven a 1.4T VW Jetta as a rental before and that car didn't have that much of a lag with its tiny turbo, but it also only has 150 BHP. Good low-end, but it also runs out of breath pretty quick.

Some Audis and the 2nd Gen Acura/Honda NSX don't have turbo lag at all because they have electric turbos, but they are expensive as all hell.

So yeah, fast in a straight line with an ICE will be a big NA/supercharged engine for me.
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Old 01-07-2019, 11:08 PM
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Surely there are better examples of a properly set up turbo than an X3 Take a Civic Type R or a Focus RS. It's a solved problem, as long as the engineers are asked to actually solve it.
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Old 01-07-2019, 11:38 PM
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Originally Posted by Loki View Post
Surely there are better examples of a properly set up turbo than an X3 Take a Civic Type R or a Focus RS. It's a solved problem, as long as the engineers are asked to actually solve it.
Honestly, if I have the amount of money to buy those two and want something different from the 8, a used Corvette will be on my watch. An NA LS will have absolutely zero lag. I press the gas pedal and it goes. Simple, just like an NA engine.

I can respect the Focus RS, but will we get more with Ford planning to only make SUVs, pickups, and Mustangs?

As for the Civic Type R, it's really, really a shame it looks like that. If you look closely, you might still see the saliva left by the boy racers licking it.

My main point is, I see a lot of people bash the Renesis like it's some kind of fashion. Yes, Mazda balled up on some of the design aspects, we all know that, but overall, I don't think it's as terrible as some people make it out to be, especially with the emission standards and price points in mind.

And yeah, it's torqueless and all that, but it also feels so refined, natural and satisfying to rev high. Some things just can't be expressed by numbers, just like why some people still like driving stick shift even though modern automatics/DCT give better numbers.
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Old 01-08-2019, 07:24 AM
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Originally Posted by UnknownJinX View Post
It's the good'ld "pick two triangle": Cheap, response, power, pick two.

I have driven a 1.4T VW Jetta as a rental before and that car didn't have that much of a lag with its tiny turbo, but it also only has 150 BHP. Good low-end, but it also runs out of breath pretty quick.

Some Audis and the 2nd Gen Acura/Honda NSX don't have turbo lag at all because they have electric turbos, but they are expensive as all hell.

So yeah, fast in a straight line with an ICE will be a big NA/supercharged engine for me.
A fast spooling turbo setup does not have to be expensive. As long as the turbo is sized properly, and there are minimal restrictions, spool can be fast and seamless.

I have turbocharged a couple of Miatas now, and we found that spool at 2000RPM is easily achievable. They key is full 3" exhaust (which looks ridiculous on such a tiny car, and packaging is obviously challenging). We limited those cars to 220WHP (100% power increase), and they have very good manners, with very smooth power delivery. A great many turbos are restricted by their exhaust setup due to bean counters and/or packaging constraints.

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Old 01-08-2019, 11:16 AM
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To be fair, an RX8 on road conditions isn't "slow", a ******* corolla is slow and even that eats pavement just fine when swerving. It's not like you can accelerate very fast on highways... As a touge racer, the RX8 was a fine machine...
​​​​​​
But, if we're talking about circuit racing, most of us would agree an FD or even better a swapped miata does a better job. Although these cars are amazing on circuits, the RX8 isnt much slower in corners, which is where my perspective of it being the next AE86 legend comes in.

I'll have to see when I own one though 😊😉😎
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Old 01-08-2019, 02:31 PM
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Originally Posted by Steve Dallas View Post
A fast spooling turbo setup does not have to be expensive. As long as the turbo is sized properly, and there are minimal restrictions, spool can be fast and seamless.

I have turbocharged a couple of Miatas now, and we found that spool at 2000RPM is easily achievable. They key is full 3" exhaust (which looks ridiculous on such a tiny car, and packaging is obviously challenging). We limited those cars to 220WHP (100% power increase), and they have very good manners, with very smooth power delivery. A great many turbos are restricted by their exhaust setup due to bean counters and/or packaging constraints.

So yeah, cheap and responsive, but without boat loads of power. 220 WHP is a lot for a Miata so I can see that working out.
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Old 01-09-2019, 07:38 AM
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Originally Posted by THEDOOMEDHELL View Post
To be fair, an RX8 on road conditions isn't "slow", a ******* corolla is slow and even that eats pavement just fine when swerving. It's not like you can accelerate very fast on highways... As a touge racer, the RX8 was a fine machine...
​​​​​​
But, if we're talking about circuit racing, most of us would agree an FD or even better a swapped miata does a better job. Although these cars are amazing on circuits, the RX8 isnt much slower in corners, which is where my perspective of it being the next AE86 legend comes in.

I'll have to see when I own one though ������
My RX-8 is faster than my Miata by several seconds on a road course, and it isn't even set up as well as the Miata. It has better acceleration on the straights and corners just as fast, if not faster. It is a very capable track car due to its excellent chassis and suspension.

LS swapped Miatas can be fast, but the extra weight in the front throws off the balance, and even after recalculating suspension components, they are slower in the corners, so you have to make up all your time on the straights. Better to remove weight from the engine bay (AC, cruise control, power steering, one fan, anything else that isn't necessary), then add that weight back with a solid turbo setup to keep the car near its original weight balance

BTW, RX-8s may be better in winter weather, because many have excellent traction and stability control along with ABS. Older Miatas have none of that (excepting the handful of unicorns that shipped with ABS).

YOU ABSOLUTELY SHOULD GET A ROTARY-SPECIFIC COMPRESSION TEST FOR ANY CAR YOU ARE CONSIDERING BUYING!!! Find one with good compression, take good care of it, and stop worrying. Change the engine when it is time, which will probably be several years down the road.

Of you have not read the New and Potential Owners sticky, read it 5 times. It contains all the info you need to be successful with an 8.

Originally Posted by UnknownJinX View Post
So yeah, cheap and responsive, but without boat loads of power. 220 WHP is a lot for a Miata so I can see that working out.
We limited those cars to 220WHP, because we found you don't need much more on the track, and we were tuning for drivetrain reliability as much as speed. At higher HP, you also start to go through hubs and brakes very quickly. Also, Miata drivers seem to run out of talent right around 250WHP and wrap them around trees. No traction control, and no ABS.

Last edited by Steve Dallas; 01-10-2019 at 09:03 AM.
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Old 01-09-2019, 08:24 AM
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The least laggy turbo engine I've ever driven was in an F80 M3 with Competition Pack. That engine has quite a high level of engineering behind it to minimize all kinds of lag. IOW, it's a lot better than 99.9% of modders will ever be able to do by just picking the right turbo and building a good manifold etc.

It's the only car I've ever driven and genuinely thought it didn't feel turbocharged most of the time, even when I was trying to find that feeling. Super impressive. But even that didn't quite feel like a good naturally aspirated engine. Like, driving it back-to-back with the E90 M3 I eventually bought, you could tell its throttle response wasn't quite as sharp, even though it has so damn much more torque.

It's not just weak power at low RPMs where the turbos can't breathe efficiently. That's easy to sort out with turbo sizing and a good manifold and tune, and it's a complete non-issue with a car like the F80. The problem is throttle lag -- i.e., when you first tip the throttle in, even in the RPM band where the turbos do their best work, the initial response isn't quite as immediate as it would be if there were no turbo to spool.

Decent explanation here: https://jalopnik.com/heres-a-perfect...all-1783864579

I'm pretty convinced at this point that it's physically impossible for a turbocharged engine to respond like a comparably engineered naturally aspirated engine, barring some kind of electric assist. But even then, there's an asterisk: what if you had the same electric assist on the naturally aspirated engine? I've heard that the Porsche 918 Spyder (NA hybrid) has noticeably better throttle response than the McLaren P1 (turbo hybrid)...

Last edited by IamFodi; 01-09-2019 at 01:34 PM.
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Old 01-09-2019, 12:52 PM
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Steve - yep, I am not really afraid of the snow by itself as long as you have proper tires. The salt is the actual concern IMO.

IamFodi - you hit the nail right in the head. I can't stand having to wait for the power to come on. Now, if I drive a turbo family car like how I drove my Corolla(below 2k RPM for the most part, with occasional silly pulls), it probably isn't a problem. I can see myself living with the throttle response of a Jetta 1.4T if I don't do any spirited driving. For more sporty cars, I mash the throttle a lot when it's safe, and all the turbo cars I have driven don't cut it. I am not that rich and can't afford anything fancy for a while, so I will be sticking with used NA cars.
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Old 01-10-2019, 08:57 PM
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Old 01-10-2019, 09:39 PM
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Originally Posted by Steve Dallas View Post
My RX-8 is faster than my Miata by several seconds on a road course, and it isn't even set up as well as the Miata. It has better acceleration on the straights and corners just as fast, if not faster. It is a very capable track car due to its excellent chassis and suspension.

LS swapped Miatas can be fast, but the extra weight in the front throws off the balance, and even after recalculating suspension components, they are slower in the corners, so you have to make up all your time on the straights. Better to remove weight from the engine bay (AC, cruise control, power steering, one fan, anything else that isn't necessary), then add that weight back with a solid turbo setup to keep the car near its original weight balance

BTW, RX-8s may be better in winter weather, because many have excellent traction and stability control along with ABS. Older Miatas have none of that (excepting the handful of unicorns that shipped with ABS).
What you said is true, and it is why I love the RX8, but I have seen miata builds that totally destroy RX8s just due to their lightness: The Slip Angle has showcased a K24 swapped miata which I think is currently their fastest car on their mostly corners circuit. Not the most typical of miata swaps but cool none-the-less 😎 do you think its cheap doing a swap like that?

I would call this swap a restomod but most people would kill me for saying that LOL

Btw, the only real problem with the RX8 for winter times is the engine hating those -10 degree cold starts... Just terrible for oil consumption. ​​I've also heard all about the horror stories of flooding RX8s for all types of reasons... But apparently its easy to burn up the flooded engines? Meh...

Anyways, after purchasing my RX8, imma try my best to keep it reliable with the best mods possible for lifespan of the engine like a good Samaritan.

Last edited by THEDOOMEDHELL; 01-10-2019 at 09:41 PM.
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Old 01-10-2019, 10:09 PM
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RX8s are a boatload of fun in winter. As long as you're not in deep snow, it has all the same predictability and balance it has on dry land, just with lower thresholds. Dorifto everywhere.

I stroooongly recommend going ice racing if you have a club near you. If you can race on ice, you can race on anything.
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Old 01-10-2019, 10:12 PM
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You Montrealers(Montrealians?) are insane. Pretty sure our AutoX events shut down in case of ice, but nothing else. I haven't seen anything called ice racing, either, probably because us West Coast British Columbians don't get ice.

I personally would never drive in snow. I am not scared of the snow itself, mind you, but I sure am scared of the salt.
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Old 01-11-2019, 12:46 PM
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Originally Posted by UnknownJinX View Post
You Montrealers(Montrealians?) are insane. Pretty sure our AutoX events shut down in case of ice, but nothing else. I haven't seen anything called ice racing, either, probably because us West Coast British Columbians don't get ice.

I personally would never drive in snow. I am not scared of the snow itself, mind you, but I sure am scared of the salt.
Whenever the lake near me gets solid enough they used to do ice racing on it. It might depend on city, but I thought the highways use gravel because it's typically too cold for salt on the passes. That being said, I will never again drive a mountain road in the 8 in winter. It's too much work. Even with good winters, you're spinning the tires trying to accelerate, or the engine is locking them out when you try to slow down. It's fine for careful town driving, but way too much effort on highways.
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Old 01-11-2019, 05:42 PM
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Originally Posted by THEDOOMEDHELL View Post
What you said is true, and it is why I love the RX8, but I have seen miata builds that totally destroy RX8s just due to their lightness: The Slip Angle has showcased a K24 swapped miata which I think is currently their fastest car on their mostly corners circuit. Not the most typical of miata swaps but cool none-the-less 😎 do you think its cheap doing a swap like that?

I would call this swap a restomod but most people would kill me for saying that LOL

Btw, the only real problem with the RX8 for winter times is the engine hating those -10 degree cold starts... Just terrible for oil consumption. ​​I've also heard all about the horror stories of flooding RX8s for all types of reasons... But apparently its easy to burn up the flooded engines? Meh...

Anyways, after purchasing my RX8, imma try my best to keep it reliable with the best mods possible for lifespan of the engine like a good Samaritan.
Oh, yeah. The K swap is awesome. Double the horsepower and reduce weight for ~$7000. kmiata.com. That's about the same price to build a track reliable turbo Miata, and the K swap is bulletproof.

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Old 01-11-2019, 06:29 PM
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Originally Posted by UnknownJinX View Post
You Montrealers(Montrealians?) are insane. Pretty sure our AutoX events shut down in case of ice, but nothing else. I haven't seen anything called ice racing, either, probably because us West Coast British Columbians don't get ice.

I personally would never drive in snow. I am not scared of the snow itself, mind you, but I sure am scared of the salt.
My RX8 has not been driven in the snow either but I really have to put more effort into driving it in the summer.
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Old 01-11-2019, 06:38 PM
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Some of the best times I've had driving the R3 were in the snow.
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Old 01-11-2019, 06:42 PM
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My driving in the snow experiences have been great as well just got to make sure to wash all the salt off
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Old 01-14-2019, 10:39 AM
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Know what I really like now? The fact that little kids - and plenty of adults - stare at my 8 on the highway, trying to figure out what the hell kind of car it is.

I... love... that.
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