BigCajun

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Reading the rules.

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Are-Ex-Eight

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I have less than 25,000 miles on an 09 R3 that I drive daily. Maybe one day it will be worth something but it doesn't really matter since I don't ever plan on selling it.

cbmmm3

Perhaps I can add here. Been Rotary since 1981. In late 2016 my 2017 BMW M2 arrived. 5 cars, 3 car garage. ****. And Michigan winters. **** x 2. After heartbreaking decision, the 2010 RX-8 GT that I bought brand new was sold. The M2 assumed its space. And I was rotary-less for the first time in ? . The M2 is an incredible car. I love it. Guess what - the RX-8 puts a bigger smile on my face. My wife ( She is an incredible woman ), told me late last year to go get another RX-8. I did. And it gets the most of my attention in a stable of European beauties.
Point of story ? Keep your 8. If you sell it, you will be back to looking for one at some point in your life's journey. Trust me

Twiztog43

iTrader: (15)

I can relate as well. I have debated on letting go of the RX-8, but the reality is, its not worth much and I'm better just keeping it. I feel I have outgrown the RX-8, however when i do drive it, it puts a smile on my face. However, I do feel that the community has taken a down turn.

mazdaverx7

iTrader: (6)

When these cars were first introduced, they were immediately a niche market vehicle. Certain colors like Nordic Green and Lightning Yellow were super hard to get and Mazda dealers were, in some cases, charging more than retail for the vehicle. I had to settle on a Brilliant Black model over the Nordic Green that I wanted originally because of the then supply and demand for that color. When it was inroduce it was revolutionary to say the least. To me, it was breathtaking to see on the road. The car has been and will always be a car true enthusiasts appreciate. My opinion is that the value has sunk because of people's impression that the Renesis engine is prone to early failure as compared with previous RX-7's. With that said, when someone new here asks our opinion on a potential purchase, what is the first thing we tall them? Get a proper compression test done because the cost of a rebuild can exceed the current value of the car. This is the reason that the value of the car is as low as it is. People are scared of a potential engine failure and when they find out what it will cost to replace or rebuild the engine they sell their 8 cheap or as a buyer, run away from the car. The S2000 and the 350Z that someone above was comparing our cars to do not have high engine failure rates as compared to the RX-8. Sure they both have their issues but what car does not. People are not scared of the cost of parts outweighing the cost of the vehicle at this point of those cars.

With that said, a true enthusiast, one that appreciates and loves the car does not allow the weight of potential engine failure to get in the way of their ownership and driving enjoyment. A true enthusiast does what he or she can to get in front of potential issues before they surface and performs the preventative maintenance. The value of an enthusiast owned RX-8 is always higher than that of some younger kid that has beat the car to death. We know its an exceptionally fun and quick car that can be had for a reasonable price. Kids are getting the cars for a bargain and destroying them and that too is contributing to the low values we are seeing.

The supply of RX-8's will start to decline and most of the kids will have found another car to beat on and destroy and us true enthusiasts will save the ones left to languish and because there will not be many left in an unmodified or run down state, the values will increase. When? That is the question we all wonder. Took the 1st Generation RX-7 nearly 30 years before its value started to increase and people started to appreciate the original and unmodified examples again. And while some can still be bought cheaply, many are downright expensive compared to what they once were. That is a good thing. The RX-8 has so much to offer and people outside the community will see that once again and the values will come back. I'm personally hanging onto my two and I'm looking to buy a few more that are in need of repair. I'll buy them cheap and put money into them and enjoy them because I know how amazing of a car the RX-8 is and I love and appreciate it.

MAstray1990

By the way the market seems to be going, getting a decent powered sports car is seems to be getting harder to find. I think for this very reason RX-8s will make somewhat of a comeback. The funny thing is though, when I’m driving around and people ask me questions about mine, they don’t even know what it is and think it’s a new car lol

onewhippedpuppy

This is the circle of life for all enthusiast cars. They are applauded when new, forgotten after a few years, and finally appreciated as classics 20+ years later. My first Porsche was a 1970 911T that I bought for $4500 in 2003. I sold it a year later for $7500 and thought I did great. I'd be hard pressed to get the same car today for less than probably $60k. The early 911 market is a unique case and I would never suggest getting an RX-8 as an "investment", but I think they will eventually be appreciated.

I'm in the boat of having come back to the RX-8. I had a 2005 Sport that I sold a few years ago but remembered fondly. In a recent push to simplify my life I sold an FD RX-7, 911SC, and D2 S8, and replaced them all with a 2009 RX-8 R3. I sold three fantastic cars, but really don't feel that I'm missing much. For the money you'll be hard pressed to find anything with this combination of fun, handling, functionality, and uniqueness.

Curt Baclawski

I think at current prices, the RX-8 is an incredible value for track duty. I know with only minor modifications(springs/sways/tires) mine can easily catch and pass some more modern "sportscars" costing multiples more, and I'd describe myself as an "average" driver on a good day. The engine seems to like the high rev's, and to date it's been the most reliable track car I own...

It'll probably never be worth much, but it sure is a cheap/fairly capable way to enjoy some track days. (pretty easy on consumables too - other than gas of course)

New Yorker

Agreed. In fact, I suspect rx8club.com has done more to diminish the appeal of our cars than actual incidents of "engine failure" which, I believe, is actually an emotionally loaded misnomer that would make a "Fox News" writer proud; the engine doesn't "fail" like a traditional engine, it doesn't suddenly seize or blow a hole through a cylinder wall with a loud, dramatic "bang" as it suddenly comes to a halt in the middle of the highway, telltale columns of steam rising up from under the hood. And make no mistake, that's what unsuspecting, potential buyers conjure up when they hear "engine failure". In reality, casually maintained Renesis engines are prone to problems that result, most commonly, in a gradual loss of compression, to the point where the car loses power or, in some cases, won't even start. The "failure" actually refers to failing a compression test, indicating said loss of compression and, the engine being what it is, it ultimately needs to be replaced rather than repaired, as it's easier and more economical to swap 'em out than fix 'em. So be it.

Here's a little experiment: try driving an 8 with engine failure. If you can start it (and often, you can), you may notice a lack of power in the upper rev band. Now… try driving a 911 or a Z-car or a BMW with "engine failure". See how far you get.

Loki

iTrader: (1)

Well said!


Semantics.

RX0004

New Yorker

UnknownJinX

I think both Mazda and your "Average Joe" drivers are at fault here.

On some level, you have to admit that Mazda made some questionable decisions. The potato early ignition coils, 2 oil injectors per rotor for S1, the 4-port engine option(my opinion, just feels like it shouldn't exist) are all problems. A rotary also doesn't last as long as a piston engine due to its inherent design, and it drinks a lot of gas for the kind of power it makes.

But at the same time, like half the drivers don't know how to check oil level in the US and Canada, and rotaries burn oil by design. You can see how this ends.

It's not Mazda's fault that people aren't following their instructions, and it's not the driver's fault that the early coils are crapping out at 30k miles.

In the end, you just gotta make everything more idiot-proof.

New Yorker:

- The consensus with premix is that there is quite a lot of evidence to point out that it helps, but since there isn't a published controlled lab test, there is still no 100% concrete evidence.

- I never let any of my car "warm up", since none of the cars I have driven are carburated. Per Owner's Manual, I do wait about 15~30 seconds before I start driving, but I never wait until it reaches operating temperature in the garage. I do make sure I take it easy when the engine is cold, though.

DartzIRL

They do last when looked after.

What seems to kill cars in Ireland is sill-rust, which is an NCT fail. In the UK it's stationary bearing failure.

Mine hast rust but it's been treated for it with specialist paint (The joys of black paint).. The engine was running fine at 157k and was only 'killed' by a sparkplug breaking off and getting sucked through it. Even then it still ran almost normally, hot-started well and made good power. It just sounded like a bearing had failed with a bastard of a cold-start rattle, and another at high revs. Otherwise it'd been perfectly healthy despite being on 'poor' compression for 4 years.

RX0004

Posts like what what, stating reality? Sorry to burst your bubble.

Did you even read what you just wrote, lol.

Says premixing is not required, but does it anyway. Your comments make for a compelling argument...

The rest of your post reads like a list of excuses and tells me you're either in denial, or just haven't come to terms with why these vehicles are worth SFA.

IamFodi

iTrader: (1)

I bought this car knowing it was a niche car, with strengths that almost no one cares about, and weaknesses that are deal-breakers for almost everyone.

I had no idea how right I was until I joined the community. Even most RX-8 owners have no concept of what makes this car uniquely great, i.e. handling and feel combined with some practicality. They like it because of how it looks, or because it has some kind of crazy engine, or because they think it's fast, or because of how cheaply they can buy it. Then it bites them, or the illusion just shatters. Then they neglect the car, or just can't afford to do right by it. Then they fob it off on the next unsuspecting person, and the cycle continues.

Most half-decent cars will eventually get to the point where a truly mint example can fetch a surprising price. I don't think that counts as a car "going up in value." What counts is when the less-than-mint examples also go up in value. AFAICT, for that to happen, a car needs to have one or more of the following:

1. Something that appeals to normal people, like speed or luxury
2. Cult status that is broadly recognized
3. Some kind of major achievement that most people can understand

The RX-8 ticks none of those boxes.

This forum is a bubble that helps us convince ourselves that the RX-8 is more appreciated than it is. Yeah, 10+ years from now, it'll be a highly desirable classic -- to us. The rest of the world will just shake its head and move on. There just aren't enough of us, and everyone else has no idea what we're smoking.

I hope I'm wrong about all this. I do plan to keep my R3 long enough to find out. But that's only because it's the right car for me, and I'm fairly sure the auto industry will never do better for my tastes. And that means I'll be driving the **** out of it until I can't any more. If I'm wrong, and resale values rebound in the future, that'll be a nice bonus.

New Yorker

RX0004

Cool story...

UnknownJinX

I agree for the most part, but don't most classics only make sense to enthusiasts?

See FD RX-7 and Gen 1 Acura NSX for examples. They are cult classics, but that's about what they have going for them. The former has even more of a glass heart than the 8, while the latter only has "meh" level power. If you are not an enthusiast, you will be buying a new car with a much better value.

And to a lesser extent, the NA Miata is like this, too. Why the **** would any rational being pay 4~5 grand for a sub-100 HP, 20+-year-old car?

Someday the 8 might achieve that status. We will have to see.

Personally, I bought the 8 because I know I can put up with the disadvantages and it ticks a lot of the boxes, and I also like owning something somewhat rare you don't see every day.

Otherwise, I would have gotten a Civic Si Coupe or another Accord Coupe V6 w/ 6-speed.

IamFodi

iTrader: (1)

Both of those cars were blisteringly quick in their days. The FD is still pretty quick by modern standards, and can be easily modded for more speed.

The NSX singlehandedly changed the course of the industry by smashing the assumption that supercars would always be unruly and unreliable. It has HUGE historical significance. The FD isn't on that level historically, but it's still part of the '90s Japanese giant-killer firmament along with the Skyline GT-R and Supra.

They were also total bedroom wall poster fodder when they came out, and they still hold up pretty well in that respect.

So yeah, if you're not an enthusiast, you'll probably want something else. But even then, you'll still probably have some respect for those cars because they have a pretty broad, easily-understood appeal. That appeal means there are a lot of people who'd buy them given the chance, which is what drives the value up.

I'd argue that the RX-8 did for handling what the FD did for overall speed, i.e. make the highest tier (at the time) accessible to the masses. But speed is something everyone understands and a lot of people value. So is a sexy looking exterior. Handling... isn't.

And there's nothing about the RX-8 that even begins to approach the NSX's significance, nor is it part of a well-regarded class like the FD.


....I mean, exactly. When was the last time you saw an NA Miata fetching an extra zero at resale?




When I was shopping for my 8, an '06-'11 Civic Si was tied with a 128i for second choice.

Loki

iTrader: (1)

I will say this: the 8 is damn hard to replace. I'm between 135i and Cayman as worthy replacements, based on chasing them on track and talking to owners, but why would I spend that kind of money when I have everything I need, paid off ages ago?

So while it may not be worth much actual money, it's saving me massive amounts in not needing any other car.

IamFodi

iTrader: (1)

Agreed.

135i is a lot faster and nicer but will never feel as alive as the 8, and engine-wise I'm not sure it's any cheaper/easier to own. It's objectively a better car but there's something missing.

If you can afford a Cayman and don't need back seats, there's zero argument for an RX-8. But there aren't a lot of cars like that unless you're willing to spend a lot more money.

So many "sports cars" drive like crap compared to the RX-8.

UnknownJinX

But when you put the historical significance aside, there aren't very much going for them, and hard to justify the kind of price they fetch nowadays.

Definitely.

There were some other contenders at the time, but all were crossed off for one reason or another:

Muscles/Ponies: Could only afford the used V6 ones up front, which are generally considered kinda lame. Used V8 ones are either ***** expensive, or way too old.

S2000/Miata: No back seats.

Civic Si: Couldn't find any newer Coupes around me at the time(I don't like the look of the Sedan and don't really need 4 doors), and plus I don't really want to be bunched into the boy racer crowd.

8th Gen Accord Coupe V6 6-speed: Couldn't find one that's not overpriced at the time, and honestly, a bit too big to maneuver around sometimes.

And while theoretically, I could have kept my crappy Corolla 5-speed beater and get an S2k/Miata, I don't have the parking space for them, and insurance in BC is already fooked up as it is. The POS Corolla cost me more than a grand to insure annually(which is more than the car is freakin' worth).

So all in all, I am happy with it other than the gas mileage, but heh, nothing is perfect and I can live with it. They say you bought the right car when you keep looking at it as you walk away from it after you park it, and this is exactly what I do.

RXeckless

iTrader: (5)

I'm on my 3rd RX-8 now and still love the car. It's under powered and a little quirky. I've owned many of the car mentioned including 135i m-sport, a miata and a FD in the passed few years but still have a RX-8 and that says something. I'll probably keep the 8 for a long while as a "summer car" as it's pretty well worth nothing and to replace it with something as fun would just cost to much. Also there's nothing out there on the market that even appeals to me at the moment that has not risen to insane prices. At my age I don't want another project car or fix ur upper, and the 8 is still pretty comfortable and reliable, even on long trip. That said who cares what there worth and what they may be worth in the future. Have fun and drive the **** out of it.

thew

WE old Farts are still here. My 8 is still My 8.. Still loving it.. Not so Happy with the Way Mazda has left us out in the Cold. But Still loving MY Rx8.