dean2900

I posted my nightmare story about the Roadside Assistance which is a different issue. My car would not start.

Mazda says they cannot find a problem with the car and it starts for them fine. I only managed to get the car started once when I was stranded by smacking on the starter but had errors showing on my display. I turned the car off after ten minutes (to avoid possible flooding) and it would not start again.

Mazda has had my car for two days and said they cannot find any problem. I explained to them that I will be making a roundtrip of 400 miles starting to day wtih my 2 year old son. I don't feel good about taking the car since they said they found nothing wrong with it.

I talked to the service manager and she said in order to reaplace the starter or any other part, they have to prove it is defective and my car is fine.

My car would not start for 4 hours, the only time I got it to start was when I had someone gently bang on the starter with a hammer. My guess is it the starter or relay but she is saying they cant replace anything without proof that there is a problem.

Does the burden of proof fall on the owner to prove the car has a problem?

This is my 1st Mazda and I know in recent years that both the local Honda, BMW, and Toyota dealers never hesitated to replace a part if it sounds like it could be the problem. Why does Mazda fight it's customer base tooth and nails on every issue?

Dean

zoom44

are you paying? then they replace anything you say. if it s a warranty the they normally neeed to see the problem. but come on this is pretty obviuos- it stalled and wouldt start. t tow driver can vouch for that. this dealer must have had some money held back when the couldnt show MZ defective parts in the past. they should just call the tech lline explain what happened to you and get it ok'd

dean2900

It under warranty. I was reading her the TSB about the starter. She has finally said "I will put a new starter on it if you insist." I said "Well it is either the starter or the relay." She said "Well I cant do both."

My point here is I feel like they should have replaced the starter right off the bat and then tested it for a while. If it didnt start again then go with the relay.

At this point, she said she would get with the mechanic and call me back within an hour which means I will be calling her back in an hour. Arrrghh...

\\Konig\\

iTrader: (4)

ive been having a few hard starts as well. my 8 is in the dealer right now.

same problem...they have to prove it by seeing it start hard. a while ago i called and they told me the car is starting normal and that to change the starter they HAVE to have it fail on them. ERRRR

i really want this new starter...what do i have to do?

dannobre

iTrader: (3)

Flood it

dean2900

I did get the new starter kit which included the starter and the wiring.

I really had to force the service manager to give me the starter. She said that if they replace a 500 starter and Mazda finds the old one is not defective, they will not get reimbursed. I don't know the truth in this matter.

otherside

I am a service manager at a Mazda dealer and I understand your frustrations. The fact is, technically the vehicle must fail to accuratley diagnose. If a dealer throws parts at a car in hopes of repairing it, it opens up the lemon law can of worms. Multiple repair attempts may prompt this to occur. The dealer must be very careful. It is a catch 22 for the dealer. Replace a part for the sake of customer satisfaction and hope it works? Or face the rath of Mazda Corp. for fueling a lemon law case if it doesnt. It is not so cut and dry unfortunatley. As they say, "walk a mile in another mans shoes etc..."

DOMINION

Are you from Las Vegas

\\Konig\\

iTrader: (4)

got my car back today.

no starter :\

and lets just say i wont be going to that dealer any time soon...

dean2900

I do try to understand where the breakdown in the system is. Since the local Honda, Toyota, and BMW dealers in town (at least in the past) would just replace parts no questions asked under warranty then I have to assume that either Mazda is much tougher on the local shops or that this particular shop has done too many "wrong" repairs.

Raptor75

Mazda Corp's service policy is the worst!!!!

If the computer can't show an issue the investigation stops right there. Forget the fact that there is a physical problems, they really don't care. This type of penny pinching logic has and will cost them customers in the future, after dealing with their horrible service policies I can't see myself buying or recommending Mazda. I will go has far as to say that I helped persuade a coworker to buy a Subaru GT instead of a MS6 because of the problems he would face getting service from Mazda, this was not the only reason he went with the GT but it was a definite negative with choosing Mazda.

In this day and age, where customer service is playing a bigger roll in the ability to sell vehicles, Mazda's approach seems like backward steps. They really need to wake up to the reality that their policy is costing them customers.

Sad that such a fine car is sold by such a poor company.

otherside

No, not from Vegas. It is too bad you guys have had such bad experiences at your local dealers. Believe it or not, there are a few good dealers out there and we are one of them. My customer service experience comes from 6 years of Lexus training. If you've got dealer issues, scream loud! believe it or not, Mazda will listen. Raptor75, does your local Subaru dealer have a good reputation? Because the vehicles themselves are not any better than a Mazda. True, its all about service. You could own a Yugo and if you were treated well at the dealer, you could care less if you owned a piece of sh-t.

dean2900

I can tell you that when I finally picked up my car, the woman who took me out to my car apologized and said remember how nice we were when you get your Mazda survey.

Apparently Mazda puts a lot of stock in those surveys?

I am just not sure if the problem is with Mazda or my local dealer?

otherside,

You read my story at the top. Would I have had to fought you tooth and nail to get a starter? I was told over and over that nothing showed up on the computer so there was nothing wrong?

Dean

otherside

Yes, Mazda does put alot of stock into the survey. A bad survey can be detrimental to a dealer. We are expected to maintain a certain level of satisfaction. Thats why it is verty important to read the survey carefully. If you have a vehicle that has had warranty issues and the Dealer has been polite, attentive and caring of your concern, then rate the dealer high and use the comments section to voice your quality issues. If you were truley treated badley, then whats right is right. As for your situation, Ive never seen a starter accually fail on an RX8, but if you say that banging on the starter got the vehicle to start, that would have been good enough for me. Now my question to you is: were you polite and courteous?

dean2900

Otherside,

Yes I was very polite and courteous. I first prefaced with "I had a bad experience with your roadside assistance but that has nothing to do with you." I wanted to pass the info on. I had enough sense to find out how it works.

I then explained what happened and that a couple of smacks on the starter fixed the problem. The service manager then explained that the computer did show any errors that she may not get reimbursed for the starter. I explained to her nicely that I appreciated her situation but she had to appreciate mine and what is the most likely scenario here? I also explained that with previous and current cars that other dealers prefer not to take chances. She did replace the starter kit and I told her I did appreciate it.

Now as for the survery, it actually will be difficult to fill out. Was Mazda courteous? Two of the people were nice the other two were quite frankly a-holes. I had to talk to three different people in order to get a loaner the next day after being stranded for 4-5 hours. I found that completely unacceptable and I only have Toyota, Honda, and BMW to compare with of recent but all those places would give me loaners no problem.

My biggest complaint is that I had to fight them tooth and nails on everything. If they had there way, they just wanted to hand the car back to me and said "We cannot find anything wrong."

I am hoping the Mazda survey allows for comments under the questions. I would like to basically state that it is a mixed bag and share my experiences. It sounds like Mazda does try to listen so I do want to try to give them accurate feedback.

otherside

We do follow up calls on all repairs. If we called you and you voiced your concerns, we would ask" what can we do to make up for the inconveinience, what can we do to satisfy you?" How would you answer?

dean2900

If my Mazda called and asked what can we do to make up for the inconviences, I would just tell them A) I would like to have a loaner if my car breaks down again with no fighting.

I would probably also mention that Person A and Person B have been courteous and professional while Person C and D probably need to work on their CS skills. I don't mind citing examples.

Let me ask you question. Should the service manager know about the parts? The reason I ask is that when the service manager told me she had her mechanic put in a new starter kit, I asked her what parts were included. She said she had no idea. She asked if she wanted to ask the mechanic which I said yes to. I am not in this field so I dont know how much knowledge of the cars a good Service Manager should have. I know I always feel more comfortable when they can demonstrate a working knowledge.

Dean

otherside

Three words I hate: "I dont know". What she should have said is "let me find out for you". Its ok not to know something, but someone always will. I always make a point to try to know, but I was also a technician for 20 years. My guess is she probably wasn"t a tech (maybe Im wrong, not trying to be sexist). Asking you to ask the mechanic, wrong! The customer satisfaction bar has been raised extremely high over the years, and will continue to rise, thanks in part to Lexus. The Lexus philosophy is like no other car company. Anyway, just some views from the "otherside". I would say that most dealers try, some just better than others.

Raptor75

I would agree that Subaru and Mazda are about the same for quality. It is the way they treat their customers that is lights years different. If I bring my Subaru in with a problem they find it and fix it. It is a pleasure to deal with them. I bring my Mazda in with a problem and if they can't see any errors on the computer they hand me the keys and send me on my way with out even trying to find an obvious problem.

I have had little problem with my RX so far but the problems I have had have not been corrected. I have twice gotten the brush off with a "every thing is fine" when it wasn't. In the past 10 years I've owned Pontiacs, Nissan's, Subarus, Fords and never had problems getting the car fixed under warranty like I have with Mazda.

It is pretty obvious that Mazda's policy is only fix it if you absolutely have to. If they can find any way to make it look ambiguous or act like they do see any problem they do and stick it to the customer. At Mazda the customer comes a distant 2nd from saving a few pennies.

I will say it again Mazda's approach to customer satisfaction is the worst I have experienced. They really don't care about you and your car, only the profit they make.

I need to add this clarification, I believe it is Mazda corp. that fosters this poor level of service that the dealers then adopt. Change needs to happen at corp.

OK I'm off my soap box.

Clavius

To Otherside, its nice to know someone out there gets it with customer service.
I posted in another thread that my personal and blunt philosphy is "Shut them up and make them happy." it works for me because its the way I like to be treated.. shut me up.. anyway possible... usualy saying "I'm sorry" then make me happy before I leave the place.

Personally I'm having a slight annoyance with my dealer with some door sil rust and repaint job.... -:sigh:- but yeah.. thats another thread I need to create with pictures...

dean2900

Otherside,

I do appreciate your insights. If I have further problems with my car, do you mind if I PM you just to get your insights onto how matters were handled?

Believe me, I would take my car two you a second if you were within 80 miles!

Dean

otherside

Raptor75, believe me, its not Mazda corps. policy. You have a serious issue with your local dealer unfortunatley. My personal intention is not to blow my customers off, nor is it Mazdas. We are lucky enough to be a gold level dealer, which allows me to make proactive decisions for my customers without having to jump through hoops. But this level has to be earned based on CSI and other criteria. Dean2900, feel free to contact me anytime.

Winfree

My old VW was post warrenty and the dealer rather hoped that we would not bring the rattling wreck to him, he also overcharged big time, so a friendly neighborhood 'white cane' garage got our business which was really a pretty good deal for them as we were replacing all the parts one at a time. When it outlived salvage yard parts it was time to trade it in....

The Chevy was well treated by the dealer that sold it, but although still under warrenty, was not cared for as well after we moved. A dealer in Georgia in a very small town did do an amazing job of hand reshaping a part when in an emergency one could not be found due to a local flood.

Cook Mazda, in Maryland was my first Mazda experience. Excellent care, follow up and even shoveled snow when a dead battery allowed the car to be buried by a snow plow. Don't know if they are still that good, but it kept me a loyal customer.

Dad's Oldsmobile Dealer should have been hung from the yard arm. They knowingly sold a car that was so badly engineered that a series of dangerous, fatal and near fatal accidents occured because of a fuel problem, which was recognized and later grudingly recalled. Excuses were made and top down instructions were followed that damaged the makers reputations and the dealer's credibility. It took a multiple party court case to get the compensation for damages done, and cars fixed, replaced or recalled. I believe Ford may had had similar problems. I watched a classmate suffer over problems with the new ceramic wheels on a Tarus. Made me glad to hold onto my Mazda!

Valley Mazda, in San Louis Obispo, CA, was there for a 323 - the cheapest they made, no longer under warrenty, and over 13 years overdate. They even offered to buy the car back for the original price, if I wanted to sell if for a new one ( Kept the 323 - works good, is paid for, and can carry 2 bales of hay). Now we have the 8 - and they are there for that - Yes, sometimes things get muddled, sometimes a tech gets sick, or work gets piled up, but they actually care, know something about 8s, and work with the customer. If I get another car, I will get a Mazda and I will get it from them. My only worry is Ford's involvement with Mazdas.

Chrissss

Just a note having nothing to do with your dealership problem, but with the starter itself.

By your description I would say it is your starter as I have had this issue on a couple previous cars. What you likely have is a dead spot on your starters armature, caused by broken or shorted windings.

The dead wires create a void in the magnetic field and if the armature stops in just the right place the disrupted magnetic field can't get it turning again. Tapping the starter with a hammer jostles the armature enough to allow the magnetic field to re-establish itself and away you go.

This problem is extremely difficult to reproduce as the armature must stop at a very specific point for it to happen. You may only see it once in a hundred starts.

Chris...

Winfree

So is there a way to test for broken/shorted wires in the armature?