Prelude owner drives RX-8...and get's busted
 

Hi All,

This is my first post, so please don't yell at me if I'm breaking any rules.

I've had my Prelude since it was new. It's a 1998 model with the "Type SH" package, which I think means it's supposed to have "Super Handling," but some people have come up with less flattering interpretations as well.

Anyway, the car does handle well, at least for a front driver. What I like the best, though, is that the steering wheel, pedals, and shifter are so carefully engineered. There's no torque steer to speak of, no slop in the brake pedal, and no vagueness in the shifter. The throttle response and steering are both quick and the suspension is well damped. What this all means is that its easy to this car hard.

The problem is, good engineering can get only take a front driver so far. Even though the steering is very precise, it still feels kind of reluctant when I'm trying to accelerate and steer at the same time. Another issue is that the Prelude is the anti-BMW when it comes to front overhang. It's long, and this means lots of extra braking to avoid chin scraping when pulling in and out of parking lots and driveways. Similarly, the turning radius is just wide enough to be a nuisance.

Otherwise, the car is sort of middling. The interior pleases me with its minimalism but it's far from Audi TT beautiful. The exterior has clean, sharp lines, but again, you won't find anyone drooling over it. The car is comfortable and quiet enough for long trips, but a "Grand Tourer" it is not. The engine is very high tech and fun to rev, but its gutless below 2,000 RPM. Finally, real people can fit in the back seat and real luggage can fit in the trunk, it just better be short people and small luggage. So, all in all, the Prelude has been a pleasure to own, but it's beginning to lose its luster.

So, now my challenge is to find a worthy replacement. The ideal car for me would be a Performance Packaged BMW 330i...if someone else were paying for it. With price as a consideration, that leaves but a few choices. The Mitsubishi EVO, Subaru WRX STi, Infiniti G35, and, of course, the RX-8. On paper, the EVO and STi strike me as cartoonish outside, cheap inside, loud, and breathtakingly fast. In other words, great in town and on the back roads, exhausting on trips, and somewhat embarassing to be seen in. The G35 sounded good on paper, then I drove it. I came away disappointed with its "big on the outside, small on the inside" packaging, reluctant shifter, long doors, wide turning radius, and most importantly, it's utter lack of lightness.

So, without further adieu (I know, that was a *lot* of adieu), on to the RX-8. Before driving it, I was expecting great things from the suspension, a Miata-like shifter, sharp steering, and an engine that never gets sick of revving. I also thought the "Freestyle" door system and reasonably roomy back seats, all in a lightweight, compact body, were just what the doctor ordered. On ther other hand, I kept asking myself, Where's the torque? And, What's with that fuel economy? I had also hoped the trunk would be a bit larger and that the back seats would fold down.

So, driving by my local Mazda dealership yesterday, I did my now customary "RX-8 check," and for the first time, I didn't come up empty. In fact, they had several. In a flash, I was behind the wheel of a black stripper RX-8 with a 6-speed. The first thing I noticed was how close together the pedals were. Then I noticed how well they worked. The throttle was responsive and the brake pedal felt taught, just like my Prelude, only tighter. The steering also felt right, and the shifter was precise and engaged with just the right amount of resistance.

And then it dawned on me how seriously lacking the torque was, and how little I seemed to care. I proceeded to experiment with various combinations of high gears and low speeds, and I came to a most remarkable conclusion: the rotary engine is one smooth operator. I was doing things that would cause my Prelude to shake itself to pieces or throw a rod, and the engine just kept purring. True, it wasn't doing much in the way of accelerating, but I was thinking, "I could get used to this." With that revelation behind me, I put my foot into it and let the revs climb to the far reaches of the tach. *Now* I was accelerating, yet the engine continued to just purr nonchalantly. Amazing.

I began slowing down, realizing that I was going a tad fast for the road I was on, then I looked over and noticed that the motorcycle cop sitting on the side of the road also thought the same thing and was waving me over. Unable to sweet talk my way out of the ticket, I sheepishly pulled away and resumed the test drive, albeit with somewhat less enthusiasm. At least I could still test the handling without getting myself into any more trouble. As we entered a long highway entrace ramp, the familiar 30-MPH left hander beckoned, and we rapidly approached. The car turned in beautifully, but then I began to notice a strange pulsing sensation. I wasn't sure what it was, since I didn't think base models had stability control, but whatever it was, it didn't upset or noticeably slow the car, it just felt wierd. The rest of the drive was pleasant but uneventful.

And that pretty much sums up my experience. I still can't figure out if I should love any car that's good enough to get me in trouble, or curse it for being unlucky :) All in all, I came away surprised with how much I liked the rotary but a little confused about the handling. Everthing else was as good as I was expecting, although the fuel economy and trunk are still issues. So, I guess I'm still up in the air on what my next car will be.

So, if anyone out there has comments, explanations, or advise for me, I'd love to hear from you.

Cheers,

-Dan

Nice post- and you've noticed something a lot of us have noticed-the speed creeps up on you remarkably fast. You think you're doing 50, when suddenly you're doing 80. Oops.

Amen to that. I was out riding with my wife and we refused to look at the speedo in an attempt to guess the present speed. She guessed 45, I guessed 48, speedo said 77! Major oops!
Another situation happened on the highway while I attempted to get on an exit ramp and another driver did not want me to get into the exit lane. When I sped up, he sped up. When I slowed down, he slowed down. When I got tired of him (75 mph) I decided to downshift and accelerate around him when he didn't expect it. I felt the car work a little, but nothing major. That's when it happened. . . I noticed a little more white on the digital speedometer than I was used to only to look down and see 102 mph and climbing! I by reasoning only thought that I might have been doing maybe 85-90 tops, but oh well.:)

Nice take on the 8 & background as well. How does a cop respond when you tell him/her you're on a test drive? :)

What else really are you considering that you could get as a car that would excite you? For me, on paper there isn't a whole lot that can transcend style, reliability, build quality, and handling-tilted performance to match against the 8 at below $30k. But I'd probably have a 2000-2001 'lude if my 'new car buy' situation was a couple years back, for the overall package and value.

I think this cop set up shop at that location specifically *because* it's on a common test drive route :mad: So, needless to say, I didn't get much sympathy.

Well, one possility would be a previous generation (E36) BMW M3. That implies getting a pretty old car, though, which I'm not wild about, but it sure is a sweet car. Alternatively, I could get a certified used 330i 5-speed with sport package, but then I'd keep thinking about how it's lacking the performance package with the 6-speed manual.

Another possibility would be a Lexus IS if Toyota decides to upgrade to a larger engine. I've heard murmors that they might stick a V8 in there, or possibly the new 3.3-liter V6. As it stands now, though, the IS300 is actually slower than my Prelude, which would be a step down in my book.

Yet another thought is the upcoming Legacy turbo. There's actually a thread in this very forum with pictures and descriptions of this car. It certainly looks nice, and it may be fast, but I'd be pleasantly surprised if it has the handling and light, sporty feel of the RX-8.

Way out on the horizon, the BMW 1-Series might be interesting, but I probably won't feel like waiting that long, and the early versions will probably have smallish four cylinders. By the time a tuboed M model comes out, I'll probably have lost patience.

So, the RX-8 will probably end up being my best bet. I'm surprised you show such confidence in its reliability, though. I'm still not sure if the 8's are going to hold together like Miatas or more like past RX-7's. I'm probably going to wait for an '05 model before I take the plunge. Waiting for the second year proved to be a good move with the Prelude--the original '97 models had quite a few issues that were corrected by '98.

Before I go, I'm still hoping someone can explain to me the deal with the "phantom stability control" (see my original post for the story). Was that stability control I was feeling? Was something not quite right about the car? I checked the sticker after driving it and didn't see anything about a sport package or stability control, so I'm rather preplexed about what that pulsation and subtle rocking motion was all about (especially since I didn't touch the brakes). Also, there were some blanks (instead of working buttons) to the left of the steering wheel, but no stability control kill switch that I could find.

Cheers,

-Dan

Biggest problem with the past RX-7s was the overheating due to turbos. The RX-8 has no turbos, and I'm pretty confident any issues that arise will be taken care of under warranty. That's also why I'm leasing... :)

That digital speedo is a killer, and I have to be honest, I was really lucky the first day I got my car. I drove into a town that is *notorious* for pulling people over, and drove past a cop doing 60 in a 40. He looked at me and I'm like.. "dammit!" but just smiled and waved.

It was a nice suprise.

After having the car nearly a month (a month on the 22nd!), I'm very comfortable now with using the digital speedo to drive with though, if you don't monitor it from time to time you'll be going faster than you realize and that *is* a bad thing :)

Two words: Cruise Control :)

-Dan

Two more words:

No way :p

30 mph seems a little slow for the hand of god to kick in. Ive taken it in a really tight long onramp and in other cars i woulda been hoppin to the side. In the 8 it hugged and i was actually scared about what its limits might be. I think ill chicken out before i find out what the limits are.

That said .........We do have the DSC which helps get ya back in control of your drive but i havent gotten it to engage yet..... and i took my corner very very fast at about close to 70 or 75 or so. The car did not squeek squeel or anything. Freaking car was like saying is that all you got punk,................. kinda laughing at me. My car called my bluff and I decided to finish skip barber school before i even attempt to test the limits of my car again.

I was very plesently suprised. I have no idea what was the deal with yours tho sounds weird.

I swear tho get this car you wont be disapointed. Get this car or get a used NSX. They are actually really reasonable and will kick arse and look good doing it hehe.

Hehe, my DSC light comes on all the time... I'm easing into it though, and there's a lot of gravely areas by my house so it's probably why I get slippage of sorts.

Besides, I'm not comfortable yet to turn it off :)

Hey zerohour,

Figure it was about 55 MPH (although it coulda' been 60 given how deceptive the speed seems to be in this thing!) around a left turn marked at 30. I guess the best way to describe the sensation was a sort of "tugging", as if the inside rear brake were clamping on and off repeatedly. The car ended up carving a perfect path through the curve--it just felt kind of nervous doing so. And I have no memory of even touching the brakes, so I'm doubtful of the salesman's claim that is was the "electronic brake distribution." BTW, where is the kill switch for the DSC?

Cheers,

-Dan

Torque sensistive differential.

That thing needs some breaking in.

Ohhh! Thanks, Mike, that very well might have been it, especially since I didn't notice anything lighting up on the dash. As for the differential needing breaking-in, this car was really green...less than 100 miles I think.

-Dan

LSD for sure.

Go with the 8 Dan, you will not regret it!

Moving to general discussion.

Its a damn good thing you didn't test drive an S2000 :-)

Cuz its far more exciting... I can't believe u got 'wood' over an Rx-*... Hell, I have both, and the RX-8 isn't thrilling...at all.

Its moderatly quick.... with horrid wheel hop for launchs.. GREAT in BAD weather (well..compared to a roadster)..

either way.. glad you enjoyed it, coming from a Predlue..accord.. or whatever...it is probably quite quick.. but in reality.. its not.. its pleasant, but not seriously quick...

... now, once Canzoomers Stage-1 mod come out, and is available, I might retract these statements.

...did I mention the horrid gas milage?? oops..forgot to..just do a search.

Stage-1 is out... ever check the vender's forum or Canzoomer's site? He is working on Stage-2 now...

Seriously... comparing the 8 to the s2000 is comparing apples to oranges. They only thing they have in common is that they are both Japanese cars. One is a sports sedan and the other is 2 seater convertible sports car (and a damn compact one at that! Much more room in a Z4).

Another thought DanThMan, when nearly any sub $70K piston car, sporty or not, is old and relegated to the history bin as far as technology and looks goes (usually takes about 3 years), and your patience with it's dated style and problems is wearing thin (like your Prelude)....

The 8 will still be coveted by enthusiasts, drooled over by the have nots and wannabes, and you'll still be smiling as you take take her to 9K on a decreasing radius turn any 'ol time you please, just because you can!

Think about it. :)

PS I owned a European spec 1987 Prelude (2nd love after the 8)and got to drive it all over Europe and esp into the Alps as I lived in Switzerland at the time). It was soooo lowww and had superwide wheels and ++tires, and she was one hell of a car ! I used to scare passengers regularly as it would stick to mountain hairpin turns (180's with drop offs like a James Bond movie) like glue :D :D :D. Unfortunately I had to leave her when I left (emmisions, safety regs) boohoo :(

.. oh forget it..even with all that all THREE CARS tied for track lap time!!! Say why haven't you sold your 8???:D???:D Or better question, why did you (if you did) buy it in the first place???:confused:

Now that is a good response! 0-60 times off by .2 seconds. Yeah thats alot isn't it? ;) Driver error is greater than that.

DanThMan: The RX-8 may feel slow but it is actually faster than you think it is. It is just so smooth an linear that it is very deceiving. I find it hard to believe that you think the torque is low in the RX-8 coming from a Prelude. It should at the very least be it's equal throughout the usable powerband. The one thing you will miss though is gas mileage. That is a downside but that is something that rotary owners have come to accept.

There are many good cars out there so pick the one that is best for you. People will always be biased. Some as stated above prefer the S2000 (try stufing 4 people in it!), others like the 350Z (try stuffing 4 people in it!), but most of us here are partial to the RX-8 (duh!). Pick the car that is best for you and no one else. If you do buy an RX-8, I hope you enjoy it as much as most of the people here do.

I came from a Lude also. Great car to an even better car.

having owned 3 Rx7s, their reliability in my experiance has been better than that of my piston enginged vehicles. I personally have had 100% reliability, and they have, without exception been trouble free. (Owned them on average 3-5 yrs)

it always makes me laugh when people don't think the 8 is quick??

either they don't know how to drive it, or rev it high enough to get the full power out of it. After having my car now for a few days, I am pleasantly surprised at the broad range of smooth power, but you have to rev it. Still breaking it in, so it will be a little while before she sees 9000rpms
as far as the prelude, I owned a 2000SH, and the 8 would eat it for lunch!
The 8 has almost identical 5-60 times in all mags as the 2000-2003 S2000, and can pull low 6sec 0-60 times. That is plenty fast. Work the car in the upper rev ranges and there will not be many guys out there that will leave you in the dust. But no doubt a 350Z, or Mustang will pull away. I am getting my stage 1 put in soon, and that will make an already great car even better !!!

and I agree about the 8 being deceivingly fast. You can't compare it to the feel of a piston. Canzoomer told me with his stage 1 installed, he kept perfect pace with a 350Z track pact in a little sprint. Even without the mod, the car is plenty quick, I just think another 20-25hp makes is tough to beat for all around performance and comfort

On the whole getting pulled over issue.... if you get the 8 PLEASE GET A RADAR DETECTOR.

People on here really aren't joking when they say the speed creeps up on you. My old 00 Celica used to drown out the radio crusing at 80 doing 3100 rpms, and you could feel the car shake. In the 8, you really can't hear the engine until the fresh air duct opens (5500 and up I believe). Plus... don't downplay the fact that you are going to be public enemy #1 when it comes to the cops. I found this out the hard way this week. Following an 96 accord, 00 neon, and subaru legacy doing 80 on the highway. They were pulling away from me, I was doing 80 on cruise. Who gets pulled over..... the shiny blue sports car. So $260 + $412 later, I have a paid speeding ticket and a V1.