Need help with stalling!!
 

Hi

I have recently picked up an RX-8 on Saturday and I'm a relative newbie at shifting gears.

I have driven stick shifts before ('97 Cavalier, '03 Eclipse and '04 Lancer Ralliart) I can shift those gears no problem.

However, it seems like the shifting for the RX-8 is more difficult because the clutch is a long throw. Also, it seems like the clutch is very hard to push in with my left foot. I know that you need to push the clutch completely in, just in order to turn the car on.

I find that I end up stalling at red lights about 30% of the time. It's so embarassing. Do you guys have any tips regarding the RX-8 clutch?

I think that I have yet to find the sweet spot where to ease off the clutch and gas it.

Any help would be appreciated

For me, the clutch is extremely light, actually. It's easier than my old Honda, which was previously the lightest I'd ever used. It does have a long throw, and I've found the release point to be very close to the floor, whereas in other cars it's a lot higher. I've heard a lot about the need to get the RPM's higher than in other manuals before you engage the clutch, so give that a try. Other than that, just give it time. All new clutches take a little getting used to.

One day I had a lot of trouble only to find that I was using third once the light turned green. Took about three lights then I discovered first gear and it was a breeze.

Go to a flat empty parking lot (like a school on a Sunday) and practice releasing the clutch until you find that sweet spot. Don't use the gas at all at first...just let the clutch out until you start to creep foward and hold what you got. After you get that down without stalling practice adding the gas. Pretty soon you'll get it. I use that technique when I teach people to drive stick and it usually works pretty well.

Also, most of the 8's torque and power is on the higher RPMs. Sometimes I have to back the 8 into a paking space that's on an incline and have to rev it up pretty high to keep from stalling. My friend's maxima has more low end torque and you don't have to worry about it. You'll get used to it soon. Pretty soon you'll be eating Honda civics at Red lights for breakfast.

Peace

the clutch is a long throw? do you mean the shift knob? in either case both are relatively short. In fact the shifter is very short in comparison to my 98 Eclipse. And the clutch pedal is far from being "long".

Practice will make perfect.

See.. my engagement point is not near the floor. It's actually near the top of the throw.I need to move it. You can actually adjust it yourself.

You do need more RPM to get this car moving because of the rotary engine. Once you start moving in first your RPM will actually drop by like 500. If you're at 8-900 when that happens, you're going to stall. Rev the engine up to at least 1500 and you should be golden.

Turn off the radio and open the windows and listen. Do what prod says above. If you learn to move the car without giving it gas it will be much easier to find the grab point. Once you master that, add dealing with the gas. Also learn to work the gas and clutch together. For normal driving you don't have to rev before engaging the clutch. You do both together. Drives me crazy to hear the way some people rev their poor econoboxes to get them moving.

The old rule of thumb still applies. For normal driving, treat the gas pedal like you have an egg between your foot and the pedal.

Last night I found myself stopped at the top of one of the steepest hills in San Francisco with a taxi behind me. I purposely rolled back a few inches in neutral while he was coming up behind me to give him notice. Then when it was my turn to go I started rolling backwards while giving gas and letting out the clutch, though of course not enough. I slightly panicked. My Saturn definitely has a more intuitive take-up point and doesn't require much gas - I've gotten used to that. So I stopped again, waved the taxi back a bit, and gave it more gas this time while letting out the clutch more aggressively - no slip, no spin, just a little burning clutch smell. I've got 500 miles on my car and still getting accustomed to it, though I've only stalled twice, one time right after the other while going up my driveway - it's definitely trickier than my Saturn.

I've heard a hydraulic clutch will have a different release point depending on a few factors, such as engine speed and speed of clutch engagement, but I don't know how this can be changed.

Ajax, can you tell us how to change the clutch engagement point? I think that would be useful to know, especially for those of us that know less about car mechanics.

Oh, yeah, the only reason I think the RX-8 has a hydraulic clutch (besides the fact that most stick shifts nowadays do) is because some guy looking under my hood showed me a split in the line, and insisted the master cylinder line drove the clutch, too. He used to drive a 2nd gen RX-7, but even so, I can't see how the master cylinder can drive both the brakes and the clutch. Anyone care to debunk/disprove this?

pfffft, this kinda thing is just something you need to be accustomed too. all clutches are going to be a little different, sometimes even cars of the same model differ slightly.

like some people've said, take a bit of time to get used to doing hill starts, turn the radio down, etc. just small tips so you can really get used to it.

it'll take a bit of time, tis all.

ross

The rpm should never increase without the car moving while the clutch is partially engaged, otherwise you are wearing down the clutch. I actually engage the clutch at idle and stop my foot once it catches, then start giving it gas and releasing the clutch at the same time. You should even be able to let the clutch engage at 900rpm to creep uphill without a problem. But, to each his own.

I know there are some people out there who have driven manuals for a really long time and STILL haven't gotten it down yet. In this I mean they think it's "normal" for the car to be bucking and jerking between shifts. At best, the car should feel smooth like an automatic between shifts otherwise you still need practice. Your passengers' heads shouldn't be swinging back n forth, except for changes in acceleration.

Do learn how to use the handbrake on uphill starts!

The rotary engine has a LOT less rotating mass than a recipricol engine, and less torque at low rpm.

This means you need MORE REVS to start it, because there isn't as much inertial rotation inside the engine to keep it spinning.

Torque is what pushes you back into the drivers seat when you accelerate, lots of torque = lots of push. The RX-8 has less torque at idle than most reciprocal engines, but lots more at higher speeds. This torque doesn't only help push you back in the seat, it helps push the rotors in your engine around as well!

What this all means is that you need to CHANGE YOUR DRIVING HABITS. I experienced the same thing as you when I first drove an RX-8, but after 2 or three times (watching other people do the same thing) I changed my driving style to give the 8 about 2,000 rpm (or more if you are on a hill) to get it launched.

The RX-8 is a special car and requires different driving techniques. Most drivers have been programmed to think that reciprocal engines are 'normal' (sort of how we have been brainwashed into thinking Windows is the best OS for computers).

The reciprocal engine is not 'normal' though, it is merely one option among many (diesel, two-stroke, Miller cycle etc.). Give your car more revs when starting off, and don't worry what the other drivers around you are thinking - you need to give any performance car more revs to launch it, it doesn't mean you are a lousy driver!

Hope this helps.

Yeah for some reason it completely skipped my mind to do this, even though I've done it before.

You're right, and he's an idiot. Every brake master cylinder for the past 40 years has had two circuits, it's a federal regulation that brake systems have two separate circuits to reduce complete brake systems failures. A hydraulic clutch has an entirely separate master cylinder, with a separate reservoir.

Regards,
Gordon

Re: Need help with stalling!!
 

Perhaps you could try moving your seat cushion forward, so it's not so much of a reach to the pedals? It may make the clutch easier to reach and modulate.

Regards,
Gordon

Adjusting the engagement point is simple. I got this info from Speed Racer right here on the boards. This is a direct quote:

"If you look at the very top of the clutch pedal assembly you will see the linkage which goes through the firewall. If I remember correctly it is a threaded rod with a couple of nuts. The first nut (closet to driver) acts as a lock nut and needs to be loosed before you can make any adjustments. The second nut (closer to firewall) adjusts the amount of slack/freeplay in the linkage. Turning it clockwise should give you more slack. When you find a position that feels right tighten the lock nut."

Sorry it took so long to get back to you, but I've been super busy at work the last few days.

Ajax

The 3rd gen rx7 shares the (rear part of the) brake master cylinder reservoir with the clutch, so it has no separate tank for the clutch fluid. In theory if you blew a line on the clutch, you'd also lose your rear brakes. The 2nd gen rx7 had a separate clutch reservior for the hydraulc fluid, separate to the brake system.

From what I recall (and I am going from memory here) I don't remember seeing a separate reservior for the clutch on the '8 - so it's entirely possible the clutch shares (one of the sections of) the brake fluid reservoir also.

Simon.

Beware when you're adjusting the clutch linkages though that you're not creating a situation where there's pressure on the clutch all the time. Make sure there's a little 'free play' in the system (when the pedal is not depressed) to insure the piston to the clutch master is not being pressed in all the time. If it is, then it will be like riding around with your foot pressing in on the clutch a little bit and will prematurely wear out your throwout bearing and possibly the clutch disc also.

Simon.

Right.
In most cases, all you need to do is turn it about 1 full turn to get the engagement point that you want. If you over adjust it, you'll either get to a point where the clutch is always engaged or the clutch will never engage, so be careful.

I bought a brand new Mustang back a few years ago and had a TERRIBLE time with the clutch just like you described. I also noticed a few quirky things with the convertible top alignment.

Turned out the car had gotten pranged during shipment and 'fixed' by the dealer. By the way, 'prang' is a techincal term that takes the place of what I would normally say (shhhhh -> dorked up).

The dealer swapped out that car for another. What a difference.

Excellent. Add clutch pedal adjustment to the short list of automotive things I know how to do myself. Thanks for the tip ajax, and for the warning, sferrett. I can see how over/under adjusting it would be baaaad.

In order to avoid stalling the 8 when I got it, I simply pressed the gas pedal (very lightly) before letting my left foot off the clutch.
I know its not the best way, but I preffered that from possible flooding.
The engine revved, and I ended up starting at traffic lights sideways :cool: People gave me hard looks 'cause they thought I was showing off:( Well, I did that most of the times until I got used to the clutch.

I might try to do that adjustment to my clutch. I'm not comfortable with the clutch engagement point of this car. I'm not having a stalling problem, but I can't shift through all the gears smoothly. I learned stick right before I bought my 8 on my friends Saturn Ion. In less than an hour, I pretty much had it down perfectly. I've had my 8 for 2 months now and I still haven't figured the clutch out.