My M3 is sold! Back to looking for an RX-8!
 

Any ideas on what might be needed to look out for? I am sure you guys know that I take care of my cars meticulously but who knows how other people do :)

If it were me, then I would not buy a car like this used. I place the RX8 into the evo, sti catagory for used cars. Peopler that get them like to beat on them/give them a run for their money and i dont blame them, but getting somthing like this used is just asking for trouble. Why an RX8 after an AWSOME M3?

I wouldn't say that. There are a lot of RX-8s out there that have not been run hard. Some are owned by folks that live in the city and don't have the space to open it up. Some are owned by people that just don't drive fast. Most all of them are well loved and well cared for. If it hits redline, it doesn't mean it has been hurt either. If I get to redline a few times a week, I am thrilled. This car is made to rev.

I found mine and all the maintenance receipts were in the glove box. It was in such good condition that one look told you it had been taken care of. The guy that had it before me had the same problem I did. Not enough chances to open her up and let her fly.

Just look for one that has been loved. Look at the proof of maintenance. Don't buy one that has been modded, as it may have seen the track. Just use common sense and you can find a great car.

And as always have a trusted mech inspect if before you buy.

Depends on what you are looking for that makes the M3 "awesome".

I am not big into straight line power (it's nice to have, sure) but rather tight handling characteristics. The RX-8 DESTROYS the M3 in this regard (yes, it does... I had both!).

It's lighter, more nimble, and gives more feedback in the steering and brakes. The DSC isn't overly intrusive (like the M3s!) and the car feels like an extension of your body when you're driving.

Of all the cars I have owned... the RX-8 is the best handling so far. I'm sure I can get something better handling, but I figure at around $15k, that will be my best bet.

I now know why people love rotaries.

Damn, that makes me sad that the RX8 drops to 15k. I bought an 06 and I think trade in on it is like 21k

Well, Rx8's that fall under these categories (city driving, owners that don't drive them hard) could be prone to excessive carbon buildup, which is not good also.
After all, you never know what you are going to get with a used car in general.

Which model M3 did you sell? I've driven a number of different M3s and RX8s...and the M3 is NOT about straight line performance. NO BMWs are about straight line performance. Its like saying you want to buy a Porsche 911 because you want a fast car between street lights....that's just NOT what the car is about...AT ALL.

In fact, very few European cars (exotics aside) cars are about straight line performance. Straight line performance comes from big volume, torquey engines with 8+ cylinders...which is why people thought the old school Mustang GT 5.0 (really a 4.9 but whatever) was so potent. It was a big volume V8 in a little (relatively speaking for an American car) package. The e46 M3 made 333hp from a 3.2 liter straight 6 with only 262 ft-lbs of torque!!! It was ALL about refinement and curves. Its what separates the Euro car crowd from the American car crowd...Corvette owners from the 911 owners...and why the two groups will never be confused.

What the e46 M3 did, it did with precision and speed. As far as pure acceleration goes, it may have been very quick but it wasn't always the fastest car on the block. Many an Evo, Sti, etc. could blow its doors off. Hell, my S60R could just about go toe to toe with one with 33 less ponies under the hood but a hefty bit more torque to make up for it! Where the M3 shined was around a curve...and the fact that you had enough power under the hood to drive it with the rear wheels was simply a boon (to the right driver).

In stock form, an RX8 won't touch a stock e46 M3 whether in a straight line or driving the Tail of the Dragon....and that's not a knock against the RX8 - they were designed for very different purposes and there's nothing wrong with preferring the RX8.

-Eric

well that separation between corvette owners and 911 owners is getting ever smaller with the way the new C6 has been handling on the road

E46, it was a 2003. I like the M3, it's a nice car inside and out, but at the price I WAS (it sold Saturday) paying, it's not worth it for only a little while of the year. I prefer the RX-8 because the handling is more predictable, and it's honestly better handling. I can dump a little bit of money into the 8 and it will handle amazingly, whereas the M3 will take a signifigant investment because the parts are just inherently more expensive as well as labor. The 8 is just a car I can enjoy without breaking my bank open :)

Have you looked into the 8 you leased?

Buying used is always a challenge, but if you are patient you should be able to get one with all the paperwork for maintenance. I would guess that a price tag of $15k you'll be getting a base model 8. Why not go for 19-20 and get a new base model? Over a 4 year purchase w/the diff in APR you're likely to pay ~450/mo on a new car Vs. 380/mo on a used. Or just make it a 5 year deal and you'll have about the same payment; and none of the worries attached to a used car.

[/.02]

Agreed...sort of. The Corvette will always attract a different owner. Its still more about brute power than finesse. That doesn't mean it won't ultimately get around a track quicker than a 911...but the 911 crowd is a bit of an oddity. The 911 is just WRONG from every perspective. Its tail happy because its engine is hanging out in the wrong part of the car, its shape isn't helping it at all (although Porsche is doing just about everything they can to retain the original 911 styling in an updated form) and the engine's output is inherently limited by the size of the engine you can fit in the rear.\

Let's face it, if Porsche wanted, a Cayman Turbo would obliterate a 911 around a track. As a mid-engined perfectly balanced car that is lighter than its bigger brother, the 911 with all of its electro-gizmo-gadgetry just couldn't keep up. But, Porsche probably won't ever emasculate the 911 with a lower model car.

911-philes bemoaned the switch from air to water cooling and won't concede to a true replacement. Remember, the 928 was supposed to replace the 911 when originally introduced. Porsche people screamed when the 356 was replaced with the 911. It just takes a certain type of owner...much like the RX8 though, no?

Think about it. For similar money, there are MUCH faster cars out there, right? A WRX is faster and could be modded for petty cash to make it stupid fast. Or, you could buy a factory STI or Evo for mid-$30K money. They're also inherently more practical since they've got four REAL doors, AWD and an engine that (especially in colder climates) doesn't run the risk of flooding. But who cares? They don't look like the RX8. They don't have rotaries. They don't have cool suicide rear doors. They don't [fill in the blank with tons of things]. Right? Would we still love the Rx8 if it looked like a regular sedan and had a 4cyl? It just wouldn't be the same....kind of like it lost its soul.

As for the 911, there's something about its soul (to the 911 crowd) that you can't replicate in a plastic tub...regardless of price, acceleration or handling.

Why only a little while of the year? It can't be a weather thing. Because the RX8 is outfitted with performance tires that can't be run in the snow and its also RWD.

-Eric

The M3 would become my weekend only car. I drive 40 miles each way to work, and putting that many miles on the M3 would make it lose its value and its appeal... I used to work in NYC so driving was not an every day circumstance, and the M3 was really great then because it was refreshing to drive it. However if I had to drive it every day, with a manual in Jersey traffic... I'd tire of it.

I'd rather really enjoy something on the weekend and not pay an arm and a leg for it. It's not that I couldn't keep the M3 if I wanted to, but I can't justify paying that much money for it's regulated to being only a weekend car.

How much does an 03' M3 go for anyway?

From what I've noticed, the prices of used E46 m3s have been coming down. Most probably due to the 335i.

Makes total sense. Enjoy your new RX8! :D

-Eric

I would really like to see the real-life data that support your argument "the RX8 destroys the M3", ESPECIALLY when we are talking about the E46.

I've driven both outside of the track, where the M3 simply annihilates the RX8. Concerning the track, in ALL the data that I've seen, lap times, G's in straight line or corners etc, as well as the comments of the professional track/racing drivers that have driven them, the M3 is simply a much better/faster car than the RX8

It's all about preference. I race with the BMW CCA club (when I had the RX-8) and it was then I developed a deep affection for the E46 M3, and subsequently bought one because I thought it was so cool. I know now why, when the other BMW CCA drivers told me that my car RULED (which was the RX-8 at the time) compared to their M3s, I understand why.

The M3 is heavy, and you can feel that weight around an autocross track. The DSC is intrustive if you're driving it on a day-to-day basis. It doesn't have the agility of the RX-8, and the cockpit is kind of boring. What it DOES have is quietness of the interior at speed (little wind noise), very good rear seat room (better than the RX-8 I'd say), GREAT power, good balance and poise, and good handling. It does everything well, but nothing exceptionally well. The RX-8 is an exceptionally nimble car that you can flick around the road easily, and the M3 isn't.

And that's why why I feel the way I do. I am suprised I'm saying it, having loved the M3 for so many years before owning one, but I know that the RX-8 is the best car I've ever owned for fun.

Hmm. Mine was used. Had 11.9k miles on it. Rear tires were SLIGHTLY worn. You could only tell if you stared it them like I did the day I brought it home.

Psh, I slept in it the first night haha. It's garage kept. I treat it better than I treat myself.

Good luck with finding a good 8 Hercules.

-Cody
:smoker:

Your points Hercules are good ones, but people on average don't buy based on a car's "feel." That's why some find it hard to believe you can go from a M3 to a 8.

My circle of friends all say they're "car guys" yet they all bought on horsepower and magazine stats. Only one had any real race experience, but all others can quote you their 0-60/1/4 mile stats. I'm the biggest gearhead of all of 'em yet I bought the least powerful car, which they all enjoy ribbing me on. Still, none of the smartasses would accompany me to a trackday.

Even enthusiasts, most anyways, are stupid consumers first, driving enthusiasts second.

M3 < Rx-8

OK, now I can see where you are coming from. Indeed the M3 is heavy (especially for an M series car, hell even the CSL is heavy), but it manages to "hide" its weight very nicely.

Thing is that you are mentioning "autocross", something that we don't have here. In Greece, when we say "track", we mean something like this Serres Circuit . The site is in Greek, but you can see the map and layout of the circuit. I've been in this circuit -and others similar to this- with a CRX, with the RX8, co-driven in a couple of S1600 cars, and I've also seen the lap data of the M3 in this circuit in particular. Besides lap times (the M3 is about 5" faster than the RX8!!!), the M3 E46 manages to pull higher Gs and corner speeds than the RX8 (both the 6port and the 4port version). I don't know the "feel" of the M3 in the track, since I haven't driven one inside a track, but the effectiveness of the car is undisputable.

As for the DSC, it's funny you should mention it, because I think that the DSC of the RX8 is VERY annoying (I've banged my head on the window quite a few times thanks to it....)

The new turbocharged 3 series is frickin' sweet. Hopefully I get the raise I want in March, if so, then it's by by to the 8 and hello BMW.

I would buy private party. You can meet the owner,and it will be easy to see if he is an enthusiast or some clueless person who has never added oil during the life of his ownership. Which would be a clue to lack of maintenance in other areas.
________
Keishaass Cam

Only 7 months in the M3 though, that was a quick switch.

I can't say that if I totalled my 8 today that I'd buy another 8 or just pony up the extra couple of grand for an 03 M3. But then I don't autocross which is where an 8 would shine.

Let us know how you like the A4, I toyed around with getting an A4, manual with AWD as a daily driver and then a 2 seat convertible as a fun car but went for the 8 instead.