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Mazda OEM engine price increase
Just noticed this when talking to somebody in the RX-8 subreddit...
The price for 6-port S1 engines (N3H3-02-200R-V0) from Mazda have gone up from ~$2900 to ~$3800. The price for 6-port S2 engines (N3Y4-02-200R-V0) from Mazda have gone up from ~$2800 to ~$3700. From ASH8's post in this thread, it looks like the price increase is probably because Mazda shutdown the reman plant in the US and are shipping new motors out of Japan. This definitely changes the calculus for people considering a rebuild vs just plunking down for a Mazda reman. |
If this is true I'm glad I've been procrastinating about what to do with mine.
I'd gladly pay the extra cost for a bonafide 'NEW' engine. |
If Mazmart is to be believed, the difference between "reman" and "new" is incredibly small.
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Originally Posted by NotAPreppie
(Post 4908254)
If Mazmart is to be believed, the difference between "reman" and "new" is incredibly small.
Also, when it comes to resale, having a documented 'NEW' engine as opposed to a reman could make a significant difference. |
As a current RX8 shopper, I could care less whether the replacement engine is a remain or new. All I care is compression numbers, owner and price.
That's just me, but with a car that depreciates so much, how much difference could there be? |
Originally Posted by apex1
(Post 4908297)
As a current RX8 shopper, I could care less whether the replacement engine is a remain or new. All I care is compression numbers, owner and price.
That's just me, but with a car that depreciates so much, how much difference could there be? Not enough to make any money off them, but enough to justify sinking more money into them. I have a fully loaded 2004 LY GT with a failing engine. It's pretty rare, and pretty clean. I hope to restore it if I'm up to it. Hopefully enjoy it for a few more years, then see what it's worth then. |
Maybe, I noticed a few low mile examples 04-05 selling for five figures. Everything has a bottom. Plus once you have a new engine and treat it right from the start, its been well established these engines can last. There is nothing wrong with the car, very solid. Its also very unique as in there is nothing newer that can replace it.
You might want to buy that new engine now before the prices go up further! |
Having a new engine straight from Japan is appealing as it gives maybe a little peace of mind knowing everything is new and built to high standards. I think that since ever part is new and that you have to wait for one to be sent over, I can understand the price increase.
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The same high standards that end up with a warranty-replacement engine, except now you don’t get that
most of the rebuilders here are too cheap to use new rotors and housings then they’re too cheap to have the rotors modified to use Iannetti 2mm RX7 ceramic apex seals, which then allow you to use those parts over and over for quite a few rebuilds again short of a catastrophic failure. some things you get what you pay for, especially with a Renesis engine. |
Originally Posted by TeamRX8
(Post 4908377)
The same high standards that end up with a warranty-replacement engine, except now you don’t get that
most of the rebuilders here are too cheap to use new rotors and housings then they’re too cheap to have the rotors modified to use Iannetti 2mm RX7 ceramic apex seals, which then allow you to use those parts over and over for quite a few rebuilds again short of a catastrophic failure. some things you get what you pay for, especially with a Renesis engine. Since it's not actually 'rebuilding', is it simply a matter of taking it apart and putting it back together? |
So I am a little confused on the new vs reman thing...
When you buy a short block from Mazda, do you have a choice? |
Originally Posted by BigCajun
(Post 4908381)
I don't know enough about rebuilding a Renesis to know, but could/would someone take apart a new engine to install those seals?
Since it's not actually 'rebuilding', is it simply a matter of taking it apart and putting it back together? If you're planning on keeping your '8 for more than another decade, this would definitely be the way to go.
Originally Posted by apex1
(Post 4908404)
So I am a little confused on the new vs reman thing...
When you buy a short block from Mazda, do you have a choice? Prior to this change, if you were in the US, the only way to get a genuinely new Renesis (that is, 100% new parts), was to buy a new RX-8. If you bought a motor separately from Mazda, you bought a reman. Early remans sucked until Mazda's US reman plant got better. Later remans had 90% new parts so the distinction was kind of a moot point. According to ASH8, in the Asia-Pacific market, you could only get new motors direct from Japan. If you wanted a motor with 100% new parts in the US, you had to buy the parts and build it yourself (or have somebody build it for you). According to the current speculation (and it is just speculation), Mazda is no longer offering new reman motors from the US and we are instead getting new motors from Japan. |
Originally Posted by NotAPreppie
(Post 4908428)
Mazmart and Banzai Racing (and I'm sure most other reputable rebuilders, as well) will disassemble new/reman motors from Mazda to upgrade them before shipping them to customers. I'm sure one of them would be more than happy to sell you $3000 ceramic apex seals to upgrade your $4000 Mazda motor.
If you're planning on keeping your '8 for more than another decade, this would definitely be the way to go. No. You never had a choice from Mazda. Prior to this change, if you were in the US, the only way to get a genuinely new Renesis (that is, 100% new parts), was to buy a new RX-8. If you bought a motor separately from Mazda, you bought a reman. Early remans sucked until Mazda's US reman plant got better. Later remans had 90% new parts so the distinction was kind of a moot point. According to ASH8, in the Asia-Pacific market, you could only get new motors direct from Japan. If you wanted a motor with 100% new parts in the US, you had to buy the parts and build it yourself (or have somebody build it for you). According to the current speculation (and it is just speculation), Mazda is no longer offering new reman motors from the US and we are instead getting new motors from Japan. Can someone just take a new one apart and put it back together without any difficulties as opposed to the challenges of rebuilding a blown engine? I don't plan on doing it, just curious. Reading the thread by ASH8 that you linked, I get the impression that Mazda isn't building ANY new engines now. Unless I'm mistaken the only new ones are those already built and there won't be any more new ones at all after those are sold. |
You can take a new engine apart and put it back together. I would just suggest replacing all of the gaskets, o-rings, coolant seals, and crush washers. I wouldn't want to take a chance personally as some of that stuff is a one time use only.
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You could send the shortblock to a rotary builder, right? If you pull the motor while it is still running it sounds like you may be able to save much of the hard parts.
what is the minimum shortblock overhaul cost? Full gaskets, seals etc... assuming the rotors eshaft and housings are good. |
Originally Posted by apex1
(Post 4908495)
You could send the shortblock to a rotary builder, right? If you pull the motor while it is still running it sounds like you may be able to save much of the hard parts.
what is the minimum shortblock overhaul cost? Full gaskets, seals etc... assuming the rotors eshaft and housings are good. |
If you don't need new housings, I would expect the cost to the customer to be at least $2000. To make sure the irons get properly lapped and nitrided and such would raise the cost from there.
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Does it really matter if an engine is "reman" or "new"?
As long as it's good quality, it's just superficial wording differences since most parts are new anyway. And according to Mazmart's teardown, the remans nowadays seem pretty solid so I see no need to mess around unless you have a specific build in mind. |
Originally Posted by UnknownJinX
(Post 4909201)
Does it really matter if an engine is "reman" or "new"?
As long as it's good quality, it's just superficial wording differences since most parts are new anyway. And according to Mazmart's teardown, the remans nowadays seem pretty solid so I see no need to mess around unless you have a specific build in mind. |
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