valpac

iTrader: (2)

People are going to find evidence to support their behavior. Errant or not.

If you want to speed like a maniac, you'll find plenty of other lunatics (read statistics, papers, forums, ...blah, blah blah) to support you. If you want to believe that you are "safer" travelling at high speed, you'll leave no stone unturned looking for evidence to support your position.

Bottom line. Do what you want to do and be responsible for the consequences. Just don't try to convince others that your reprehensible behavior is ok, or somehow correct.

Don't misunderstand me, I speed in my RX-8 too. But I don't lie to myself (or others) that what I'm doing is ok, acceptable in society or safe. I AM a good driver, been driving a long time and rarely overdrive cars unable handle high rates of speed. However those attributes do not negate circumstance out of my control. Unforseen events such as blowouts, mechanical failures of my car or other vehicles, other less experienced drivers, environmental conditions, improper road grading, etc. cause trouble for all drivers not just speeders.

But, if you are going to error, though, error on the conservative side and you're less likely to regret it.

valpac

iTrader: (2)

I agree. So if you are traveling at a high rate of speed relative to those around you thats bad, right? When was the last time you had the road all to yourself?

Paul_in_DC

Agreed. I would add - risk your own life, but not others. All the rationalization in the world won't make a bit of difference to the person you kill.

TexasKyle

Just did a road trip to Louisiana from Houston. Driving between 70 and 90 in a good pack of cars I got 20.5 mpg. No cruise control, but there wasnt any real hard accelerations either. Just a pretty much steady cruising. With that said, it doesnt take much accelerator action to make the MPG nose dive. Coming down HWY 87 from Milam Tx, to Newton Tx was a blast. Twisty road with plenty of switch backs and the occasional wide straight aways to go WOT. Its only about a 40 mile streach....but that little streach of throttle play through the twistys dropped my MPG to around 15 for the tank. *Anyone in TX that is close to this road should take it on a nice day...it can be a lot of fun.*

khtm

Personally, I never pass other cars going >20Km/h faster than them. Too many times some idiot in a minivan has merged into my lane without shoulder checking and almost wiped me off the road. It's just stupid flying by someone at twice their speed. Not because you can't handle it; because THEY can't.

dmp

I don't speed (+/- 10mph). (shrug). It's irrelevant. But roads and conditions in this state DO afford people a mile or 10 where no other automobile can be found. For example;







Contextually, traveling at two times the legal limit can be as safe, or safer, than rush-hour bumper-to-bumper crawling along.

valpac

iTrader: (2)

I disagree. I feel fairly safe sitting in the parking lot which is I-75 during Atlanta rush hour. No real chance of crashing and burning there. However, travelling 130 on the same stretch of road ...

And I'm out.

azharo

But what those stats do not mention is what caused the accident. Was it the driver loosing control or was it the other driver that caused the accident. In Florida, about 10 years back, I remember that the cops had to step in and cite the snowbirds for trying to slow 'fast' traffic on the left lane. They would just move into the left lane to slow the faster traffic without realising the hazard that they were causing by not being able to judge the faster traffic. After a few fatalities because of that, there was a message sent out by the FHP to warn the snowbirds about their actions. I bet this was not accounted in the statistics that were mentioned. Speed does not necessarily kills. Sometimes its the other morons on the road that causes the mishaps.

joeoh89

New RX-8 owner and had my first fill up today...19.8 mpg.. 95% highway @ 75mph the rest local. I have read that some get 25+ on highway trips and had a "M Flash" or something done.. what is that and how do I find out about it..? I ordered a new Cat Back from Racing beat and a K&N filter that should be here on the 11th UPS Ground... Is there anything I should do that can improve my MPG?

RXMANIA

Great thread, lots of info. I routinely exceed the speed limit by 10-20mph on the freeways. However, I rarely speed off the freeway and think people who do put themselves and others in danger. I consider myself to be an agressive driver, but I am very aware of my surroundings. I don't cut people off, always signal, let people merge, and try not to ride people's rear ends when they can't move over. I find that in many cases (especially in Houston) the real problem is lack of driver education and awareness. People don't move out of the fast lane, don't judge the speed of cars when turning onto the road, and are not aware of any other vehicles but their own. You can practically get your license out of a vending machine here, and it shows. You have to know when to speed and when to slow down. People who speed through school zones make me sick.

scremn8

when traveling across certain parts of the country you have no choice but to fill up on what they sell which is just regular unleaded, which does not burn as fast as super unleaded. good thing is if your driving a long distant you will not notice a diff. accept with an increase in milage. for those who only burn super. if you go on a long drive and you need to fill up and they only have regular guess what you'll get. older cars need the higher octane. the 8 needs it for city driving because the higher octane burns hotter but also faster which would reduces your milage. city driving stop and go road trip constant speed, engine stays hot and burns off trash....... sorry this was long...

mysql101

heh.

The octane rating tells you how much the fuel can be compressed before ignites. If the fuel ignites due to compression, you get knocking, which isn't good. However, the higher the octane, the harder it is for the fuel to ignite. As such, the lower the octane, the more power and more mileage you're going to get. So you basically have things backwards....

Every RX-8 is different, some can't run regular, others love it.

I run whatever I feel like, regular, super, prem, my car doesn't care.

scremn8

on the speed issue. i consider myself a good driver, but i would never go that fast. no nerves, but for those who can handle it as long as there are no other cars around to run into at that speed go for it. there have been people hurt injured and killed at very low speeds. keeping your car at slower speeds only means that if you have an accident and it kills you they won't have a problem in identifying you. and keep in mind that a tire blowing out at the wrong time can put you in a world of pain, hurt, death and so on. at 130 miles an hr. i think that would be bad...... heck when i first read your post i agreed with you. but i do not agree with putting people down because they believe in doing things there way. there are worse things then fast cars. actually fast cars are fun. go figure....

Hornet

I will say that for those who have not done 300+ miles it is very achievable but there has to be certain conditions. You guys in NoVa will never see it as long as you remain around the beltway or even taking trips in most of the Northeast. I was able to do the 300+ trip when I went south on 95 (one of my trips to South Carolina)! I was able to actually stay in 6th gear which is hard to do in city areas. Dealing with the areas around the beltway the best I was able to get was about 260 and that was me trying to be tame and keeping shifts to 5000rpms and below.

NomisR

How do you get 300mph?? Drop it out of a airplane? Oh, nm, you meant cruise range. :p

Paul_in_DC

True enough. With stop-and-go traffic all the way to & from work, there's just so much you can expect. My standard mpg around town runs 16-17.

AvatarQAZ

Can we stop people from doing 100+ miles per hour, no. Telling them not to do it is absurb. This is a sports car that screams to be driven fast.

Word of advice. I have been 130+ in vehicles and had my 8 up to 115. For both of these conditions. I knew the road with absolute perfection. I knew where every bump in the road was on both sides, and in general, could pilot it blindfolded.

As it may seem stupid to say, if you want to drive fast, be careful. Drive the road in the direction you want to travel fast in just to make sure that the road will suit your ability as well as the cars. Turn around, go back to where you started monitoring, and commence driving. Make sure the road has plenty of visibility and no areas for ANYTHING to jump out at you like animals or children.

Like I said, we can not point our finger and say do not drive fast. That is impossible. Just exercise as much caution as humanly possible before you begin an adventure that can kill yourself, or someone else. A life is not worth being able to say 'i did 140 in my 8.'

Zatem

OK, I haven't posted in a week. I've been out in Vegas and I took the opportunity to do some research on the topic of extreme speed on highways.

Get this...

While in Vegas, I met a professional Indy car driver. Turns out this guy had WON the Indy 500. I figured that those were pretty solid credentials, so I decided to make the best of this freaky-cool opportunity. I pulled out my camera saying, "I'd like your opinion on this." I showed him the photo of my 8's speedometer reading '152' and explained the situation that I took this in my RX-8 on the interstate with no traffic around.

His response was flat: "That's the rev limiter."

I wanted to make sure that he understood the safety issue, emphasizing that I was on a public road and that there was a heated debate going on at the RX-8 web forum.

His basic attitude was that it was not a problem.


I know that this is only one data point, but I felt a sense of reassurance in hearing him speak.

Zatem

Aside from pinging race car drivers, most of the research I've been doing has been poking around the web. In an attempt to quantify the safety aspects of driving at extreme speed, I've been learning about terms like "superelevation" and such. Basic points I have found is that highways in the US are engineered to a minimum design speed for the lowest performance vehicles. A normal situation is that the dips and curves of a freeway are designed for a worst-case typical vehicle, a semi-tractor trailer, to do 70 mph (sometimes 80 mph).

This means that on the worst case curves of the road, a worst case vehicle can safely do the design speed. The implication is that on less demanding stretches of the road, even the worst case vehicles can safely cruise at speeds in excess of the minimum design speed. Notice also that these design speeds are separate from the concept of a posted "Speed Limit". Design speeds are always higher than the posted speed. Another concept I learned about is the "operating speed". This is the speed at which the majority of the traffic drives at. The basic relationship is:

DesignSpeed > OperatingSpeed > SpeedLimit

So from an engineer's perspective, a tractor trailer can safely exceed the posted speed limit on even the most demanding curves of the highway.

I have not been able to find an engineering analysis that contrasts the performance capability of a semi-tractor trailer to a high-performance car like the RX-8 in the open, straighter stretches of road as opposed to the design limiting curved portions. The best I can tell you here is that the empirical data shows the number "152" on the right side of the equation.

...along with the anecdotal evidence from an Indy winner that the actual maximum is somewhere beyond that.

_______________

One great source for this info:

http://www.fhwa.dot.gov/environment/flex/ch04.htm

"in virtually all instances, the highway design vehicle is an overtheroad tractortrailer"

Table 4.2 Typical Minimum Design Speeds for Various Types of Highways (in mph)

Flat [terrain] 70-80 [mph]

"Note that the design speed must be higher than the posted speed and should also be above the operating speed on a facility, regardless of the posted speed."

________________



Here are two other webpages I found that were quite interesting...

Principles of "Geometric Design" of roadways:

http://www.webs1.uidaho.edu/niatt_la...epts/index.htm



Prediction model for distribution of Accidents on Two-Lane Highways:

http://www.tfhrc.gov/safety/pubs/99207/02.htm#severity

_________________

For anyone who REALLY wants to get into it, check out the "IHSDM" (the Interactive Highway Safety Design Model). It is an extensive document that includes several modules like the Policy Review Module, Traffic Analysis Module and the Design Consistency Module. The one I found most interesting was the Crash Prediction Module.

http://www.ihsdm.org/ihsdm_public/ht...user.html#_top


Edit: typo "supereleveation" fixed.

Zatem

From this table, I was most intrigued by the prediction that on the open road, there is roughly a 50/50 split between the hazard of:

- Hitting an animal, or

- Running off the road.


(And my guess is that the vast majority of "Ran off road" cases are falling asleep at the wheel.)

Zatem

Here's a hypothetical we could imagine:

You are driving down the highway with no other vehicles around you. Instead of just the "speed limit" signs, the road is marked with three signs, like this:

[SPEED LIMIT 70]

[TRUCK DESIGN SPEED 90]

[HI-PERFORMANCE CAR
DESIGN SPEED 150]


I hope this helps to illustrate how meaningless posted speed limits can be when determining the boundaries of safe speed.

shocar

I consider myself to be a "below average" driver. Just kidding, but consider how many people would ever have such an opinion of themselves. Perhaps the situation that should be explored is the case where a typical driver encounters serious driving hazards. Living in the northeast my entire life, I can say that I have encountered many icy roads or had to travel in snow storms many times. A year ago I was traveling with my wife and suddenly I blurted out "we are on ice". Did the car fishtail for me to know this? No. There was a very small unusual movement that made me aware. Did I stop? no. Did I slow down? Not very much. Was I paniced? No. Should I have been? maybe. My sister, who was always a very good driver did have an off road experience in a snow storm and now she is very reluctant to even ride in a car in a snow storm.

Contiuing futher on our trip, we encouintered cars off the road, some upside down. The state trooper had just arrived and he had this bemused, bewilered look on his face as we went past him (still on ice).

I had an experience once where there was one clear line on a snowy highway in blizzard conditions. As I passed a car the other diver simply followed the clear lane on a curve and very causually forced me right off the highway. The car wanted to spin as it augured into the piled up snow. I said to myself "I WILL NOT CRASH" and somehow kept the car pointing straight ahead.

I would like to take my new RX8 to the Glen this summer for one of those High Performance
Driving Experience events sponsored by NASA (not the space people). I havd never driven
over 100 mph in my life. I am in my late 50's. Should I try this event? I appreciate what I have read in this and other forums. For example, never remove hands from the wheel in a rear end spin because in doing so you may not be able to point the front wheels straight ahead and hence will encounter a rebound spin when the rear end gains traction. Also, what is the high speed steering technique mentioned previously whereby yaw and roll are not coupled. I have seen where the RX8 being so steering sensitive that oscillations can occur.

I think that discussion of high speed driving techniques can be a good thing. People need to be trained in car behavior dynamics and other practicalities of living in a very technical modern world.

NomisR

NONONO!! Driving over the speed limit is dangerous!!! Haven't you learned by all the insurance company claims and by safety advocacy groups? As soon as you go over the magical number of 55mph or 65mph, you're automatically a hazard and could spontaneously combust any minute if you haven't done so already. If you're surviving travels of above speed limit, you're just lucky and it's pure luck that's getting you by, so STOP!! It's dangerous. Sure even though statistics shows that slower drivers are more likely to cause and get into accidents, those are just biased statistics that do not mean a thing, you're going to die anyways because the insurance companies and advocacy groups says so!! And we all know that insurance companies are only considering the well being of everyone and they don't benefit at all if people are getting ticket from a low speed limit, of course not, they're kind business people!! Gov't is always out for the wellbeing of the people too, sure they generate a lot of revenue from traffic tickets and it works in a guilty until proven innocent environment which is basically a violation of the consititution but IT'S A DANGEROUS habit. Drunk driving? Sure it's the #1 cause of traffic accidents and fatalities but it's more difficult to convict so it's not as dangerous, failure to yield, failure to properly signal, lack of attention, sure they're all greater causes of accidents and deaths, but nooo they're not dangerous, of course not because the gov't says so. Cell phone use while driving IS NOT dangerous, otherwise, it's ban would've passed the legislature in California already instead of being turned down, all this shows is that it's safe!! And gov't is looking out for us!! So speeding is dangerous!!

Nick

This is a good perspective.

Also, much thanks to Zatem for the research and information. I respect the huge effort to put forward this information to the board.

Zatem

It's been a long time since I've had my sarcasm detector pegged like that. Thanks for the good laugh.