Low Compression, Engine Warranty Denied
 

My compression is bad and Mazda won't warranty it since it has no driveability issues (starts well, no misfires), so even if you get bad test results you can't count on a new engine.

bring it to a different dealer. I've seen 6.9's get replaced (don't quote me on that) without any issues what soever. It's purely based on the mechanics working.

I took the fight straight to Mazda. It was a MNAO rep that denied me after the dealer told me of Mazda's policy. The dealership said it would probably start to have power loss issues once the weather got warmer and to bring it back then, but nothing so far up to about 80 degrees. Still starts easy, revs clean. Almost makes me wonder about the compression results.

You haven't stated what the compression numbers were, so I agree, I have to wonder about the compression results.

Keep in mind they should be normalized to sea level and 250rpm before you compare them against a chart.

Good news OP!

Not to threadjack, but just in case anyone wanted to know:

Front.
Attachment 225354

Rear.
Attachment 225355

Denied.

I'm in IDGAF mode. V8roadsters is supposedly coming out with a kit this year (pinching myself of course), so I'll put this Renesis in the ground when the time comes and then put in something that'll get the same MPG and also put down 450hp. I loved my Miata and I love my RX8, but this is pure bullshit.

Yeah, that rear rotor fails across every chart and dealer.

What was the reason for denying the warranty? Out of mileage? Out of time? Modifications they didn't like? Didn't have service records?

Honestly, if the only reason why they are not replacing it under warranty is because it's not having any drivability issues, then create drivability issues.

I'm sure someone here has bad ignition coils or spark plug wires sitting on their garage shelf they can send you. Just install them, and now you have a drivability issue to report.

How you can have 0 compression on the rear rotor, and not have some issue is beyond me.

So, sabotage your car, and get your replacement engine before the warranty expires.
Or, "sell" your car to your best friend, and have him bring the car in, and see if the dealer then gives him the engine replacement. Maybe they just don't like your face, and know they can push you around.

BC.

I just don't care. I'll put maybe 2K a year on it and I'm sure it'll be plenty fine for a few years till I can put a different engine in it. Mazda never saw my ugly face FWIW, and the dealer has every incentive to get my warranty claim approved. I think this is just Mazda's policy now. I highly doubt they'll replace an engine without checking ignition health either. They're dicks, and you can't fight city hall. I'm just putting out my data point in case more people start running into this.

None of those issues were even discussed, and it's got 35K and is warrantied until next November. They just don't replace engines that don't have other issues like power loss (misfire), inability to idle, inability to start, etc. the car runs like a champ otherwise. I have to get it smogged soon and I wonder if it fails if that could be used as an "issue". I know another member here had no idea his compression was bad until he went to get emissions tested. Sadly he was out of warranty by then.

Got any other dealers in the area?

When I had my engine replaced, I knew it was fading, I took it in and specifically asked for a compression test. I got higher test numbers than that, and the dealer asked for my service records, looked them over, and sent in the paperwork for approval on the warranty. I did not have to prove any driveability problem.

Most do not. Compression test failure is typically sufficient, though some dealers will also want to do a vacuum barometer test (which is the flip side of the compression coin).

If the dealer is insisting that they won't replace it with failing scores because you haven't stated a problem with the driveability, find another dealer and get it re-tested there complaining about power loss as you walk in.


Yes, it could fail emissions with compression that low (sniffer will fail almost for sure, OBD2 probably won't fail, visual inspection won't fail).

Don't just give up.

You have the wrong attitude, hence why they are walking all over you.

Anyway, good luck to you, since you don't care.

BC.

Suck a fuck, BC, your condescension is totally unwarranted. You don't know what I have or haven't tried or that I rolled over or didn't. I shouldn't have to pour sand in my intake to get it warrantied. I just want potential buyers to know that a low compression motor may not be merely a negotiating point with a seller as it may not get warrantied. Others have commented that there's no way these compression numbers can have no other issues, but, I can say otherwise. I brought it to the dealer initially complaining of a rough idle. I put on a new ignition since and it's much improved.

I didn't post in the other thread to get pity or something or to threadjack (honestly, sorry to that OP), just wanted to let a buyer be better informed. Maybe Mazda is running low on cores and are tightening their policy, there could be changes to their warranty process that you or I aren't aware of. As a person who works for an insurance company and occasionally has to deny claims and have people fly off the handle and threaten to sue or appeal or whatever, I know what it's like to be that MNAO guy I berated. I don't deny people and then give in if they bitch or just hope they go away. If I deny your claim, it's because I would go to court and defend that decision based on the policy language. If he's denying me and, when I ask who I can appeal to, he basically says, "No one.", I can be pretty damn sure Mazda has decided this is a legally defensible position (ethical is another thing, but anyway). Furthermore, they can't withhold the actual reason for denial of my claim (like some weird past issue with the car they can see on their end) without their ass ending up in a sling, so they wouldn't risk it. I legitimately believe this is their current approach to warranty claims.

If shit goes down by next November and it gets warrantied, fine. If not, no big deal, it's a second car, I never expected to have a rotary in it forever anyway. I bought it with the intention of building my realistic dream car, which involves an LSx.

Feel free to lock this thread, mods.

We'll see about the emissions, I'm due by August. I asked about the emissions issue with MNAO and they wouldn't give me a solid answer as to whether that would suffice, they started in on the emissions warranty at that point. Thanks for the advice, you seem like a very legit guy and are always willing to help and give advice from what I've observed. I'm just not that worried about it to be honest. Mazda remans are pretty dicey anyway, think I'll just ride this one into the ground and hope the email response I got from v8roadsters wasn't pie in the sky.

:fingersx:

Is Mazda running out of refurbished engines? Maybe they're getting tight so they can make what they have in stock last until the last of the S1s are beyond 8 years.

I have this mental image of SleepyZ standing in a bread line somewhere.

Ken

Plenty if engines in mazda's side

I've been watching V8 Roadsters as well. My buddy with an LS1 Miata used their kit and its top quality. Not this Hinson BS.
They told my buddy back in Jan 2012 they were going to start developing an RX8 kit but then got sidetracked due to all the MX5 kits they were building.

Also, I took my car into Mazda for a comp test as my car just barely failed when we did one with another club members tester.
My car passed at the Mazda dealer but before the test the service manager said it doesn't matter if the compression is low, if there's no check engine light on Mazda won't warranty the engine.
Since my engine passed I didn't have a need to argue but I'm guessing Mazda are getting tight with engine replacements or more likely the majority of dealers just have their heads up their asses.

Eh, either way my goals for the car won't happen with a rotary under the hood. I was thinking the summer temps might cause my car to act up (dealer said the same, come back in the summer and we should be able to produce an issue) given the compression numbers, but nope. Still revs clean, starts easy, idles well now with the new ignition. I have to smog it in the next month so we'll see how that goes. In the meantime, I can be patient v8roadsters . . .

Someone send him an used apex tip to drop down the LIM.

Why? The man clearly doesn't give a shit.

Because when you do a LSx swap, why sell a reman for a grand or two when you can sell a shit engine for peanuts

Touche

I can't be the only one who is intrigued by this response am i?

Please elaborate.

Or lets not. That response was 3 weeks ago anyway.

This guy has 0 compression on the rear rotor and no power loss? LOL
Edit:misread a post. Still this guy should do SOMETHING

Please note, the "front", and "rear" labels next to the respected pictures. They ran the test for the front, then for the back. Instead of having both results on one paper, they got it on two separate pages both stating one set of numbers. Also, seeing the label here, where about do you live?

It's been almost a month and he already stated his course of action.

Yep, but I'd rather still give some positive input then let him run an 8 to the ground.
I'd recommend going here if you are still interested.

"Luther Brookdale Mazda Mitsubishi
7235 Brooklyn Blvd, Brooklyn Center, MN ‎
(763) 566-5600 ‎ ·"

I talked with there rotary specialist when I brought my shinka there to get it's compression test. He was a really cool guy, and told me flat out " Anything under 5.9 is a replace here no questions asked , and anything under 6.9 we will look into to see if we can replace it" I'm pretty sure the guy just enjoyed working on the 7's and 8's.

You really don't need to.
The OP has stated, quite clearly, that he doesn't give a fuck about his car, and the rotary engine inside of it, and doesn't want to be bothered with getting an engine replacement because he went to one dealer, and talked to someone at Mazda.

He just came here to start a thread saying he couldn't get his engine replaced under warranty, and that's all he wanted to do. He doesn't need our help, because he knows better than all of us.

And now he's going to install a V-8 into his RX-8.

He's the man.
Yes he is.

BC.

Ron Tonkin Mazda in Hillsboro OR if anyone did want to know. The dealers are taking their cue from Mazda, not the other way around. Unless they are willing to be unethical and claim issues that aren't present, the buck stops at MNAO. I'd rather not have anyone lie for me. I still have till November anyway. At any rate, chill errbody, I'm a big boy, don't worry about me.

November 2014, that is.

I like the car quite a bit actually, or I wouldn't consider dumping money into it. And I didn't start this thread, a mod moved the content to quit jacking another thread. Thought a new buyer might want to know and other owners in general. And we'll see on the V8. That was always the plan, just waiting for a good kit to come along. And you can quit being a twat if you like.

when you go into the dealer and want a compression test done just for the sake of checking engine health, you should be giving some sort of symptom if you want to be taken seriously for a replacement engine.

for example, say the engine has hot start issues even if it does not. that way when the engine fails compression they will have a reason to push MNAO for a replacement. if it fails but you have no complaints, what is their reasoning for trying to fix a ghost issue regardless of the results? go to another dealer and state it has hot start issues and a lack of power when the ambient temps are warmer, that way they have an underlying story to base the replacement off of.

the reason they do not just change motors for the sake of compression results is because they STILL have difficulty keeping up with the demand of replacements. it generally takes me a week to receive my replacements and i have to fill out diagnostic cards for each engine i order, the dealer also has difficulty getting replacements to keep in stock. how may other motor corporations require you to send in engine diagnostic charts to order an engine out of pocket? those are NOT even warranty claims. i can go to chevrolet or ford and order an engine without getting the third degree on why i need an engine.

just because it fails a compression test does not make 2+2=4. you MUST have additional symptoms to make it equal out to a replacement engine, this is why there is a list of symptoms on the diag sheets along with the compression measurements. most technicians won't even bother duplicating the complaint if the compression numbers show the underlying reason, your updated starter is simply masking them(320 cranking RPMs and your compression still resulted in piss poor figures).

"what is the customer's complaint?"
"he doesn't have one."

2+2=0

engine replacements are not manadatory.

The dealer will honor the extended warranty that Mazda issued if the lack of power recall/TSB hasn't been done, I work at a dealer these are the recall/TSB's that they make us techs check for before warranty engines can be approved MSP16 and MSP04 these cover the Cat as well

They did mine even i had both recalls done way before that.

Thats true, back then when wayne first checked my engine, i had hot start and dies at red light issue, but they couldnt do anything cuz my compression shows im ok. But 9 months later, they checked again and it failed, no further questions just ordered a new engine.

I like how people talks about mpg, And on the same line, talks about doing a swap blah blah blah. And i have yet to see v8 swaps gets better mpg.

Around town a lsx rx8 will probably get around the same fuel economy. On hwy cruising however an lsx rx8 will most likely get high 20's - 30 mpg.
With the T56 transmission, 6th gear is a double overdrive. 70mph is around 1500 rpm.
The mpg are all estimates of course but v8 mx5's see over 30mpg hwy and as far as I've read so do Vettes.

Yeah, I really don't care about fuel economy, but it's a bonus to get twice the HP and better highway economy, right? I did just get 22 mpg on a mostly highway trip and was surprised, that new ignition did wonders. And thanks for the info Karack, it's nice to have your perspective.

The dealer doesnt control if a engine gets replaced or not, a tech ticket needs to be issues and the engineer gives out a MASH# for replacement once they receive your data. The main test they base engine replacement off of is the BARO test, it could fail every compression test but if it passes Baro your SOL. RJayX-8 is also correct the TSBs related must be complete before testing compression & baro for accurate numbers

Yes forgot bout the BARO, but also with most big warranty cases like this for example the dealer is not in control.

That would be another 3 years for some of us:naughty:

Is it technically correct to call it 0 compression? 0 compression should mean no compression at all, and if there's no compression at all, doesn't that mean no power is produced on that rotor? And in that case, wouldn't the engine produce half of 231-234 HP?

We can only take what has been shared with us at face value, but yes, you are correct. If all three faces of one rotor is producing no measurable compression during a properly conducted compression test, then that means that the other rotor is producing all of the power that the engine outputs.

Now, if it only generates no measurable compression at a low cranking speed due to an old, weak starter, and it actually generates low compression numbers at idle speed, then that could slightly cover up the problem when the engine is running. Lets say it generates 0 compression at 125 rpm, but at 875 rpm, all three faces generate 4.5. It's still failing according to Mazda's own charts.

Regardless, this issue is pretty much been run into the ground already.
Very few other forum members have run into the problems getting their engines replaced under warranty as the OP has in this thread.

BC.

Just to make sure no one is misunderstanding the results, it's not 0 on the rear, check the pics again.

Oh, and it just passed emissions, no sniffer for OBD2 cars in OR.

The compression values @250rpm:

Front Rear
Ch.1 615.32 442.30
Ch.2 619.32 415.30
Ch.3 621.31 395.30
Diff. 6.00 47.00

The values in the rear chamber is quite lower than the front (and there's a higher deviation betw chambers)

If the compression of the rear was really zero, then it would cause a big vibration (caused by the rotor mass freely rotating)

The values of the rear are about 2/3 of the front. So, the correct expression might be 2/3 compression, not zero compression.