Another one put to pasture
12-02-2016, 08:44 PM
#1
Another one put to pasture
Well, I received "the" call from the stealership today. It appears that my daughters 8 has no compression on one side. I had to break the news to her and I thought she was going to cry. I don't have plans for a part-out because it is her first car and she absolutely loves it. I would like a second opinion but I'm not familiar (aware of) anyone who knows rotary engines. Mazmart is probably the closest to me, which is a couple of hours. If the engine is toast, I'll probably just buy her another 8 since there's not much of a price difference between a car and rebuild. Then I can play around with building a half- bridge and learn the art of building a rotary myself. I am creeping the forum everyday, I just don't log in so I will be looking for a suitor for her right foot 
. Hopefully we won't miss DGRR in April, we had a blast this year.
. Hopefully we won't miss DGRR in April, we had a blast this year.
12-02-2016, 11:21 PM
#3
What am I doing here?
Join Date: Mar 2006
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^^^
What he said. Get the actual compression numbers and post them here.
You can get a Mazda reman for a S1 6MT for ~$3k (+$250 freight to you and then however much to get the core back to Jim Ellis Mazda on the east coast).
ENGINE, SHORT M/T. ENGINE & GASKET SETS for 2005 Mazda RX-8. #N3H302200RV0
Alternately, there are reputable rebuilders. Mazmart is one, as are Rotary Resurrection in TN and Banzai Racing in IN. Rebuilds will start between $1600-$2000 and go up from there.
Doing the R&R yourself isn't complicated and there's a great write-up on the forum.
What he said. Get the actual compression numbers and post them here.
You can get a Mazda reman for a S1 6MT for ~$3k (+$250 freight to you and then however much to get the core back to Jim Ellis Mazda on the east coast).
ENGINE, SHORT M/T. ENGINE & GASKET SETS for 2005 Mazda RX-8. #N3H302200RV0
Alternately, there are reputable rebuilders. Mazmart is one, as are Rotary Resurrection in TN and Banzai Racing in IN. Rebuilds will start between $1600-$2000 and go up from there.
Doing the R&R yourself isn't complicated and there's a great write-up on the forum.
12-03-2016, 09:44 AM
#5
new Yorker
I was speaking in general terms of another 8 down. fortunately I've only had issues with her 8. I've only logged 5000 miles on mine since I bought it last year (still under 60000). I asked the dealership to provide me with a print out of the compression test for my records and ironically, they said their computer doesn't print the results.... Im calling bullshit on that one. I hope they weren't just trying to jack me because they don't know how to fix it. stuff like this is why I do my own repair work.
I was speaking in general terms of another 8 down. fortunately I've only had issues with her 8. I've only logged 5000 miles on mine since I bought it last year (still under 60000). I asked the dealership to provide me with a print out of the compression test for my records and ironically, they said their computer doesn't print the results.... Im calling bullshit on that one. I hope they weren't just trying to jack me because they don't know how to fix it. stuff like this is why I do my own repair work.
12-03-2016, 04:33 PM
#6
^
This is exactly why I suggested getting the results. That is BS, any dealer should be able to provide printed out test results. I would guess they didnt even run the test, and just told you its no good. Maybe take it somewhere else this time? Call around to your local Mazda dealers and ask them about how they perform the test, and how they produce the results. Also, tell the current dealer that you arent paying for the test without results. What's the point without knowing the numbers?
What were the symptoms in the first place? Why was the car in the shop?
This is exactly why I suggested getting the results. That is BS, any dealer should be able to provide printed out test results. I would guess they didnt even run the test, and just told you its no good. Maybe take it somewhere else this time? Call around to your local Mazda dealers and ask them about how they perform the test, and how they produce the results. Also, tell the current dealer that you arent paying for the test without results. What's the point without knowing the numbers?
What were the symptoms in the first place? Why was the car in the shop?
Last edited by Chrishoky; 12-03-2016 at 04:36 PM.
12-03-2016, 04:48 PM
#7
The car is back in my driveway and I feel much better now. When I went to pay the bill and bring it home, I was able to listen to the mechanic who looked at it. He told me that there was no measurable compression in both rotor housings, he even went on to tell me that he checked all 3 sides. He said that it struck him odd that both rotors failed at the same time. I agreed that it was odd also since I was able to start the car and run it for 15 or so seconds using contact cleaner without any funny or horrible sounds coming from the engine. That was why I thought I had a fuel delivery issue. The compression test was a secondary task to gauge the health of the engine since it was already in the shop. So, needless to say, I have no #'s to post and the battery is so dead the starter didn't even click when I loaded it onto the rollback.
12-03-2016, 05:17 PM
#8
Chrishoky
The story that was told me goes a little something like this... hey dad the car won't start and it's hanging out of the driveway. I asked what she did and she said she didn't do anything, she pushed the clutch in and put the car in neutral a couple of houses up and the car stalled. She tried to restart the car and failed. So I told her to leave it until I got home. I drove around the car and connected the jumper cables so I wouldn't have a sluggish start...nothing, it didn't even try to hit, just cranked. So I pushed it up the driveway and parked it for a couple of days until I had more time to work on it. Performed the defloration procedure for an hour or so and still no start. Since I knew it wasn't flooded. I sprayed some contact cleaner into the breather pipe and it fired, so I had my daughter start the car while I misted the intake and was able to keep the engine running for 15 seconds or so but it quit as soon as I stopped spraying. I was pretty sure that it was a fuel delivery issue so I popped the back seat to feel the fuel pump when I turned the key. The pump energised every time I cycled the key so I was confused and had it towed to the stealership.
The story that was told me goes a little something like this... hey dad the car won't start and it's hanging out of the driveway. I asked what she did and she said she didn't do anything, she pushed the clutch in and put the car in neutral a couple of houses up and the car stalled. She tried to restart the car and failed. So I told her to leave it until I got home. I drove around the car and connected the jumper cables so I wouldn't have a sluggish start...nothing, it didn't even try to hit, just cranked. So I pushed it up the driveway and parked it for a couple of days until I had more time to work on it. Performed the defloration procedure for an hour or so and still no start. Since I knew it wasn't flooded. I sprayed some contact cleaner into the breather pipe and it fired, so I had my daughter start the car while I misted the intake and was able to keep the engine running for 15 seconds or so but it quit as soon as I stopped spraying. I was pretty sure that it was a fuel delivery issue so I popped the back seat to feel the fuel pump when I turned the key. The pump energised every time I cycled the key so I was confused and had it towed to the stealership.
12-03-2016, 07:50 PM
#10
Registered
Yeah seems odd to me, too. And the fact that you can get it to run with contact cleaner but not on its own doesn't sound like a compression problem at all.
12-04-2016, 07:43 AM
#11
RX-Heaven
iTrader: (6)
Would be nice to obtain a fuel pressure reading to determine if fuel delivery is the root cause. The engine will stall when it fails and it can happen abruptly. When you pulled the plugs and cranked it, did the compression pulses sound even or was there a difference in them?
12-04-2016, 01:04 PM
#12
I didn't pull the plugs for the deflood. The mechanic at the dealership did and was surprised by how little build-up was for a set that I installed last December. He commented on how fast the engine spun over but I have the upgraded starter. I really didn't notice much difference between hers and mine on cranking speed though. Once I get another charger (my last one was stolen from my 8 while I was charging it so my daughter could get to work) I will pull the plugs and listen for any audible difference in compression. I don't know what it should sound like though because I don't have a base to compare against.
12-04-2016, 02:14 PM
#13
Registered
Someone smarter than me may comment that this is a bad idea, but if it were me, I would pull the spark plugs and put a rag over the holes. Then fully depress the gas pedal to prevent fuel injection and crank it for a few seconds. You'll hear puffs of air coming out of the spark plug holes as the rotors spin. Then inspect the rag and smell it to see if it smells like fuel. Then put a different rag over the holes and do it again, but this time leave the gas pedal alone. That should allow fuel to flow into the chambers, and then out onto the rag. Then compare the 2 rags. If there is minimal difference visually and by smell of the amount of fuel on the 2 rags, you're not getting fuel into the chamber.
12-04-2016, 10:59 PM
#14
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The car is back in my driveway and I feel much better now. When I went to pay the bill and bring it home, I was able to listen to the mechanic who looked at it. He told me that there was no measurable compression in both rotor housings, he even went on to tell me that he checked all 3 sides. He said that it struck him odd that both rotors failed at the same time. I agreed that it was odd also since I was able to start the car and run it for 15 or so seconds using contact cleaner without any funny or horrible sounds coming from the engine. That was why I thought I had a fuel delivery issue. The compression test was a secondary task to gauge the health of the engine since it was already in the shop. So, needless to say, I have no #'s to post and the battery is so dead the starter didn't even click when I loaded it onto the rollback.
12-07-2016, 05:26 PM
#16
I've made an appointment with another dealership in a different town for Wednesday of next week. We'll see what they say. If the engine is toast then I'll be making a half bridge or an aggressive street port and put the BRAP back in that ***!
12-07-2016, 11:01 PM
#17
Make sure you talk with them and they know your expectations BEFORE you bring the car. Tell them you expect to see printed test results, 3 measurements per rotor with an RPM speed indication. Without those numbers, the test means nothing. Also, I would voice your concerns regarding the symptoms the car has - and explain that the problem began basically overnight (again, not typical of a low compression motor) - and hopefully they can help you diagnose better than the last place.
12-08-2016, 05:38 AM
#18
RX-Heaven
iTrader: (6)
Someone smarter than me may comment that this is a bad idea, but if it were me, I would pull the spark plugs and put a rag over the holes. Then fully depress the gas pedal to prevent fuel injection and crank it for a few seconds. You'll hear puffs of air coming out of the spark plug holes as the rotors spin. Then inspect the rag and smell it to see if it smells like fuel. Then put a different rag over the holes and do it again, but this time leave the gas pedal alone. That should allow fuel to flow into the chambers, and then out onto the rag. Then compare the 2 rags. If there is minimal difference visually and by smell of the amount of fuel on the 2 rags, you're not getting fuel into the chamber.
12-21-2016, 11:53 AM
#22
SARX Legend
iTrader: (46)
And also, an engine can just lose compression overnight. My first reman never had any starting issues or low power issues until one day I was rowing thru the gears and at 5000RPM the revs stopped abruptly and that was that.
It is strange that both housings would have almost no compression though, I have done dozens of compression tests on failing engines and I have never seen that. But it could easily happen.
It is strange that both housings would have almost no compression though, I have done dozens of compression tests on failing engines and I have never seen that. But it could easily happen.
12-21-2016, 01:33 PM
#24
SARX Legend
iTrader: (46)
True, mine had compression, it was just way down. But of course it was not torn down so who knows what exactly happened internally.
Zero compression on both rotors would be strange, but I have seen some strange **** over the years. Like putting oil and water in a container and sucking it into the engine to "decarb" it.
Zero compression on both rotors would be strange, but I have seen some strange **** over the years. Like putting oil and water in a container and sucking it into the engine to "decarb" it.
12-21-2016, 07:33 PM
#25
I called them last Thursday afternoon to see if they were able to come up with anything. The service guy said- yeah we pulled it in and it wouldn't start so we pushed it back outside and started on another job that has been there for a while. I'll call you when we figure something out...... I'm a boat mechanic so I can understand if they looked at the service records and saw that it was just at another dealership before their's and are just being snooty. I don't like fixing other mechanic's messes either. I was just trying to save on the towing bill so I could have enough money to pay for the repair. Now I've got 575 $ removed from the budget and still no diagnosis. I will be calling them again tomorrow.
