I want to buy, but what about my concerns?
 

After test-driving the RX8 (6speed manual), I’m excited about the prospect of purchasing one. I’m dizzy from all the reading. There are a few things that make me nervous.
1) Winter: bottom line … can you drive it 12 months a year and through Toronto winters?
2) Spare Tire: does the strategy for no spare make sense?
3) Operating Costs: between poor gas mileage and recommended premium gas, is it really that much more a drain on my wallet than other vehicles?
4) Cargo Space: My hockey bag does not fit through the small trunk opening, so I had maneuver into the rear seat. I got my golf clubs and cart into the trunk, but won’t have room to take my envious golf buddy. Am I’m kidding myself into thinking that I can use the back seat for things like this?
5) Turning Engine off/on: What’s with all this noise about running the engine for a few minutes before turning it off? If this is required, I’m not sure I could change my habits. Is this real?

1) Yes. Get yourself a good set of winter tires. Best option is actually to get a set of 16" rims and tires if you plan on taking it through snow.
2) I won't get the spare in my car because of the trunk size. I've had friends with fix-a-flat kits in their M cars for years. They work, but you can't ride on it like that forever. Assuming there isn't a huge chunk of tire missing, it should get you to a tire store.
3) I can't speak to the ownership costs but it sounds like people are seeing about 19 mpg on average. That's what I see in my TT which requires 93 Oct.
4) Yes and no. You're kidding yourself if you think it's going to be a heavy hauler (not saying you said or think this). If you get your clubs in the trunk, why not put your envious friend's clubs in the back seat...it is capacious enough to handle that mission. The trunk is probably on par with my TT Roadster...except I don't have a back seat...and the RX8 has one large enough for two adults. Cha-ching! :D
5) Do a search on "flooding" and read through the mix of people's feelings on this one. For every 10 people you ask you'll get 11 answers. Research it and decide for yourself whether it's worth the "risk" or if you'd even call it a risk! It hasn't scared me away.

Oh yeah...GOOD LUCK! :D

Sue Esponte

As far as I know 16 inch rims would not fit on MT RX-8 due to brake caliper size in front. 17 inche OK bot check with seller or manufacturer.

AllanM

Many Rxers use 87 or 89 Octane - see multiple threads.

Short moves can be a bit of a pain - but not if engine is still warmed up.

Space - including back seat - large by sportscar standards. Trunk inlet is narrow - especially if you have spare tire.

John

Aaaah, good point!!! I forgot about the larger rotors that come with the GT (sports, etc) packages.

My bad!

-Eric

great thread. Lots of good question!

In addition to the above responses, here's my 2 cents...

1) Winter: Good winter tires combined with DSC/Traction control make the RX8 a capable winter car. I don't know the Canadian packages enough to know DSC is standard or an option. Don't think for a minute you can get away with the stock performance tires in the winter though.

2) Spare Tire: Mine came with a spare, but I took it out to gain space. I've got a tire plug kit in addition to the fix-it kit Mazda supplies. If I go on a long road trip, I'll likely throw the spare in the trunk though.

3) Operating Costs: You don't have to run premium, but in the summer months I would recommend it. I personally won't use the lowest grade (87), but bounce between 89, 91 and 93 depending on my mood. It was mentioned above that most people are seeing 19mpg... it's probably closer to 17mpg or a little less, unless all you do is drive on the highway. Mileage is going to directly depend on your driving style. Cost of ownership of the RX8 is going to be close to other cars in it's class.

4) Cargo Space: You've already noticed the weak point of the opening. The trunk itself is pretty big for a "sports car"... but that 12.5" opening can be tricky. The back seats are plenty big though for overflow cargo.

5) Turning Engine off/on: This gets confused a bit- there is a potential to flood the engine if you shut it off without warming it up first. Once warmed up, you don't have to let the engine run after every stop though- just start and stop your car like normal at that point (i.e. running errands).

Why not buy 2 smaller hockey bags to replace the one big one?

In addition to 5) You can also rev it for 10 seconds before shutting down if you are not at normal operating temp to keep it from flooding. I haven't had a problem yet. Also there is a new PCM re-flash available and since you are in a colder climate like me you can request the hotter spark plugs be installed prior to delivery. All these things combined are helpful with the flooding issue.

I guess I should address 1) I did drive my car all winter and I have the GT package so I have the DSC/TC and with snow tires on 17" rims I did just fine all winter. Just as good as I did in my M3 before.

(1) I have 17" wheels with snow tires and have driven mine since late January in Ann Arbor, including days the local schools were closed. At some point I think the ground clearance will be an issue in deep snow. My car has TPMS and that adds more decisions when getting snow tires. Some have considered ultra high performance all season tires and using the stock wheels with other tires.

(2) I use the car daily, including some long trips where cell phones don't work or inhospitable settings could arise. I bought my car with the spare.

(3) It depends which vehicle you are comparing it to and how thick your wallet is. I am getting 19 MPG driving a mixture of city and highway. Most of my driving is gentle to moderate. That is worse than my old '94 Accord, and a little worse then my '98 Odyssey. Rough US$ calcs: 10K miles, 18 MPG, $1.80/gal - costs $1000 or 10 cents/mile. Some get 12 MPG, so the price would go to $1500 per 10K miles, adding another $500/year. 10K miles is probably low, but is an easy base for scaling. I am still experimenting with regular and premium.

(4) With the spare, Mazda tool box, snow shovel, my tool box, etc there is room for two full-size airline carry-on bags in the trunk, and few smaller things jammed in. I don't think of it as good luggage sort of car, but the back seat with doors is pretty easy to use.

(5) Flooding has been a big deal for some people, but I think its less of an issue (maybe nearly not an issue) with the proper awareness. I haven't had a hint of the problem, yet. I don't turn the car off unless the temp gauge is in the middle. If you need to, then the procedure that 93rdcurrent summarized is an option, and some follow that all the time.

Search and casually browse the forum -- you will find more complete and more diverse answers to your questions.

My 2 cents:

my hockey bag fits easily in the trunk of my G35 coupe. So does my teamate's bag. The back seat folds down when I take the dog for a ride. The 24 mpg/city and 30 mpg/hiway make up for higher retail price and make it cheaper to own too. The snow tires were a normal cheap size. Good luck with your decision!

PS - we took the buyback after 4 expensive unreliable months and 6000 km of RX8 ownership.

Wow, an intelligent statement about another car without bashing the 8...

Wish everyone could convey their opinion without starting a mudslinging war.

BTW the g35 is a nice ride.

I'm curious about the "unreliable" comment though...what types of reliability issues did you experience in 4 months (6K km) of ownership?

-Eric

>.... You can also rev it for 10 seconds before shutting down if >you are not at normal operating temp to keep it from flooding.

I though so too until one time when I have to crank the engine for almost 10 sec before it catches even after I drove the baby for an hour! From now on, I'll rev the engine up to 4-5k before shutting it down no matter what.

I do the same after every drive as well, and it works like a champ... 98% of the time it catches after one or two seconds when starting (although I rev only to 3-4k and hold it for one second or so).

Boy, I miss my car after driving a Mitsubishi Lancer that was filthy....
Car was flooded...husband did not believe me....moved it out and back in the garage cold.
Usually never a problem.
Very capable car with proper winter tires....actually is awesome in the snow!!
I have fit lots of stuff surpriingly in the trunk and back seat. I have a 4 year old who sits back there and loves it.
A blalst to drive, looks that are awesome in and out, smooth engine and cool car to mod!!! Worth it!!

Sorry about the typo's....in a hurry!

For what it's worth, I've never once revved my engine before shut-down so, since I've never flooded, I suppose could say that technique works too. Point being, I've seen nothing irrefutable that would prove that revving the engine avoids flooding. Rev all you like, I'm just hesitant to conclude that it actually does anything.

Regarding the cost of ownership (if you mean gasoline); you asked for the difference relative to other vehicles. HoLee Smokes that's a lot of territory. If you compare a hypothetical vehicle that gets 22 mpg and runs on $1.60 per gallon 87 octance gasoline vs. an 8 that gets 16 mpg and runs on $1.80 93 octane gasoline and you assume 18000 miles per year --- the first car would cost $1309 in fuel costs per year --- the 8 would cost $2025 per year, given the assumptions above. This works out to $1.96 USD per day in extra fuel costs. Insignficant in my opinion.....

As far as costs of ownership, when comparing the 8 to other cars in its class, it really comes out almost too close to call. For other cars in its class, think of the 350Z, G35, WRX, Audi TT, etc.

The 8 will probably get worse mileage than any of those cars, but in most cases only 2-5 MPG worse.

The 8 can compensate for poor mileage costs by using 87 Octane gas... pretty sure those other cars all require at least 91.

The 8 is cheaper to insure than any of the above with the possible exception of the WRX.

The 8 consumes oil, but at a rate of around 1 quart per 2000 miles. Oil costs less than $2.00 per quart. You do the math.

All of those cars require snow tires if you plan on driving them in harsh winter conditions. None of them come equipped with OEM tires suitable for snow.

Finding a local mechanic who can work on rotaries may be difficult unless you feel like taking your car to the dealership. Could be some added expense there.

The flooding problem is, based on everything I've seen and experienced, 100% avoidable if you take the necessary precautions. In the event you screw up, it's covered under warranty.

I'll be the first to admit it's more voodoo than not, at least with respect to flooding. I actually started doing this with my Miata- I noticed it started up quicker the next time, so I concluded that it did a decent job of purging fuel from the cylinders on shutdown. The first couple times I drove the '8 I didn't follow this shutdown method, and noticed it took a few more cranks to get it started when cold the next day. Since I've been doing it, it always starts right up, and since I hear other forum members mention difficulty starting when cold, it seems like this might help. It also seems natural that this could prevent (if only slightly) a potential flood if the car was only driven a short distance.

One of these days I'll get some brass ones and try it on my own car - and since I also feel that the emergency start procedure should work most of the time on a flooded 8 (given a strong enough battery), I'm confident either way it will start back up.

The RX8 needs them too...and the TT (and now the G35) offer AWD. A good set of winter tires typically does the trick though...and that doesn't mean "all seasons". Anything that tries to be the jack of all trades can't excel at being anything but average at everything. That's an all season tire.

-Eric

so when ppl shut the 8 down. they revv it so the gas is purged into the gas line? is that how it is? and while your revving the engine you shut it off at the same time. im not fully understanding it?

The thought is..
Rev the engine to 3-4K. While it is there, cut the ignition.
This is thought to purge any unburnt fuel out the exhaust. Since the engine keeps spinning for several seconds, and the fuel was cut off with the ignition.

Sorry if it wasn't clear... I meant the Rx-8 also requires snow tires for any winter condition driving. The car is downright dangerous in the snow with the OEM tires.

My TT w/Quattro needed snow tires as well. I squeaked through a winter without them and quickly realized that AWD is worthless when all 4 tires are spinning helplessly. :eek:

Yep. Regardless of snow, the TT's performance tires don't hold up when the temperature drops into the 30s. All of a sudden you instantaneously know what it must have felt like to drive Fred Flinstone's car. :D

Curious, did you replace your TT with an 8? Which TT did you own?

-Eric

Same way with the 8 or any performance tires in the cold... Flintsone's :-)