Hi-power, low-power, detuned power???
 

After reading all of the new articles on the RX-8, it seems as though there will be two power levels if you will. One will be a 250-hp motor with the six-speed and the other is a 201 hp motor with the automatic.

Now my question is this, is this basically the same engine, only that its been detuned so the automatic can handle it? Or is there another low power motor that will go with the base model and automatic model.

My impression leads me to the fact that there is only one engine, and it has just been detuned for the automatic. Am I wrong?

Also, where will this slushbox car find itself in the overall RX-8 range? Will it be the most expensive, the tourer of the group, or would Mazda consider offering a base RX-8, its sports car, with an automatic and the lower powered engine?

All these power levels are confusing the heck out of me. :confused:

nearly the whole engine'll be the same, but management (the way the computer manages ignition, fuel mix, and throttle at a given rpm and load), and most importantly PORTS, will be different.
i believe that the peak torque for the low power engine is lower in the rpm range, and higher (??) (IIRC) than the high power version, by virtue of its smaller ports, giving the engine higher volumetric efficiency at lower rpm.
this is all 'cause the automatic tranny can't spin as quick as the high-power motor, so they limit the redline, then adjust the ports, and then the management stuff to best suit that application.
the engine is about the same, but there are a few biggish differences which some may then classify them as two different engines.

i've got no idea about how much the automatic version would be, or where it is in the pricing hierarchy... apparently, the six-speed AND high power motor (??) were available on the base model (but probably not for the lowest sticker price).

Hi TallGuy,

There will be two different power levels for the 6 speed manual and the 5 speed automatic. From memory the difference in the 2 levels is below:

207 - 210 hp
164 ft-lbs @ 5000 rpm
lower redline because the auto trans can't handle 9000 rpms

The 6-speed manual should have:

247 hp
159 ft-lbs @ 5500
redline 9000 (rev limit (10000)

The auto version has less horsepower because it can't rev as high as the 6-speed version. If anything, it has been "tuned" to have more torque at lower rpms rather than detuned. The 6-speed version has 3 different length intake paths and (if memory serves me correctly) the auto version only has 2 (missing the high rpm path). I'm not sure if the actual ports on the auto trans renesis will be made differently (higher costs). I am pretty sure that a simple change in the intake manifold is the difference.

Brian

heh heh, <<munch munch munch>> eating your own words isn't so bad, when you use a lot of ketchup.
:p i'll leave the technological stuff to the brains of the operation. heh heh.

Then again, I may be just talking out of my ( * ). :) You could be right Wakeech, it's just that the cost of designing and manufacturing different housings for different port sizes might be a little high for the # of auto rx-8s that will probably be sold.

i dunno... i figure grinding different holes in the side housings shouldn't be too expensive...

And did you get that information somewhere, or are you just making an assumption?

---jps

Re: Hi-power, low-power, detuned power???
 

My understanding is the Auto/200hp model will be the base ~$27Kand the 6-speed/250hp will be the "high end" model (i.e. $$). I can see the high end getting close to $33-34K easy.

Roachman

Re: Re: Hi-power, low-power, detuned power???
 

If it is 33-34k US, then I won't buy it.

31k is my max, and Mazda should be able to undercut Infiniti as far as pricing goes... it's costing them less to make the rotary than it costs Infiniti to make the VQ engine.

Re: Re: Re: Hi-power, low-power, detuned power???
 

1QUOTE]Originally posted by Hercules
If it is 33-34k US, then I won't buy it.

31k is my max, and Mazda should be able to undercut Infiniti as far as pricing goes... it's costing them less to make the rotary than it costs Infiniti to make the VQ engine. [/QUOTE]

Herc,

You should be ok if you get the 6 speed/250hp car with very few options on top.

If 200hp goes for $27K. I would assume they would put ~$2,500 to $3000 to get the extra 50hp. Then add a couple $700 options and you can get to $33K-$34K pretty easy.

But, lay off the options and I would think you are good to go !

I hope I am way off here since no one really knows what the options are vs. standard but I don't think so.

Roachman

Re: Re: Re: Re: Hi-power, low-power, detuned power???
 

I intend on getting it loaded or not at all.

It should be able to come around the 31k mark loaded, I just don't want navigation. I don't see how that's too much to ask because comments from Mazda spokespeople at Sevenstock have put it in that range... let's just hope they stay close to it :)

ack 33k to 34k is way out of my price range.. looks like the WRX is calling my name.

Re: Re: Re: Hi-power, low-power, detuned power???
 

Not by a long shot when you take into consideration the economies of scale. The 3.5 VQ is in seven cars in the Infiniti/Nissan model line-up. One engine in one car is a helluva lot more expensive.

Anyone else bothered by the fact they're even making a slush-box? I just learned a couple of months ago that the Miata is available in an auto. *GASP* :eek:

Re: Re: Re: Re: Hi-power, low-power, detuned power???
 

Good point.

But Mazda right now needs to get a foothold in the market again, because they haven't had any cars that compete for a few years. I think 31k loaded minus nav isn't asking too much.

Re: Re: Hi-power, low-power, detuned power???
 

Not likely. Name one car where the manual version costs more than the automatic.

Re: Re: Re: Hi-power, low-power, detuned power???
 

G35 Coupe..corporate cousin of the 8's main competitor.

Corvette. Auto is standard and manual optional.

Naw...

Especially considering that this isn't intended to be a "true" sports car, like an RX7 would be. Heck, not to start picking a fight with a 350Z owner, but the 350Z is intended to be more of a sports car than the RX8, and it is offered with an automatic.

Sure, but if you want to sell alot of cars in the States, you pretty much have to offer it. The ratio of autos to manuals is quite low though, as I expect the case to be with the 350Z.

---jps

Re: Re: Re: Re: Hi-power, low-power, detuned power???
 

The manual comes only with a package of a bunch of other options like 18" wheels, etc. So you're not paying for the transmission itself, your paying for all the other stuff.

The Vette is the probably the only example where you actually have to pay to get a manual, as opposed pretty much every single other car where you pay more for the automatic.

But anyway, I think that it would be incredibly stupid of Mazda if a 250hp RX-8 costs several thousand more than a 287hp Z ($26k).

And it SHOULD NOT be offered with an auto IMO.

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Hi-power, low-power, detuned power???
 

Exactly...and from my understanding that is what Mazda intends to do with the RX-8. The manual will be packaged with larger (18") alloys and upgraded suspension. Plus whatever else they throw in.

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Hi-power, low-power, detuned power???
 

I think the Bose is standard too.. but don't quote me on it :)

I read that only 7% of vehicles sold in the US have manual transmissions...

Also, for years now the vehicles used for driver's education classes in schools have been auto only. If we aren't teaching young people to drive MT cars they won't buy them. If fewer people buy them the carmakers won't build them. And finally, if only us enthusiasts want them, they'll make us pay more for them.

My driver's ed car was a 1975 Plymouth Fury with a three speed on the column!!!

My 16 year old sister will be learning on a manual tranny when she gets her permit.

It's required because she's related to me :P