Forced Induction for the rotary: A unique poll.
 

Ok, so we have lots of different opinions (and threads) as to whether Mazda should release a forced induction rotary in a future production car. So why start a new thread? I'm curious to know the breakdown of opinions in relationship to who has actually owned an FI rotary in the past. I.E. how many previous FI rotary owners think it's a bad idea, and how many people who have never owned an FI rotary think the same. Cast your votes! For the purposes of this poll, offering an FI rotary does not exclude wider/more rotors. The question is, even if Mazda increases rotor width or adds a third rotor, do you think they should also offer FI as an option?

Though I know that Mazda has denied that they are working on a FI version of the RENESIS, I'm still holding out for that option maybe as a MazdaSpeed version. If there will not be a FI version of a MS RX-8 or MS RX-7, it still won't deter me from purchasing one as long as there's an aftermarket option. With all the excellent rotary tuners out there, I'm positive that someone is already working on a kit as we speak.

On a side note, since the MS Protege and the upcoming MS6 are both FI, I think all MS version should have FI. I also think there there should be a MS version of every model in the lineup, including a MS MPV and MS Tribute. I can see the 280HP/280lbs-ft, turbo 2.3L I4 from the MS6 fitting very nicely into both of those models. I wonder if an AWD system can be retro fitted into the MPV chasis?

I'm glad to see Mazda starting to sharing engines across model lines. This should save on development cost and performance parts from difference models can be shared. VW/Audi is very good at this and they have an excellant aftermarket following.

for me, FI = supercharged, not turbo.
(no, i have never owned a rotary, FI or NA)

while i totally understand it can be costly, i am still a believer that proper maintanence is the key.

So far, everyone that has owned a FI rotary wants FI rotaries in the future. I think because we have the most knowledge and experience we know that a FI rotary could be both very reliable and very powerful.

Personally, I think Mazda should offer a good variety of rotary engines, and not limit themselves in this regard. Maybe something like this:

1.3L NA - "Normal" RX-8
1.5L NA - MPS RX-8 and base RX-7
1.5L Turbo - MPS RX-7

I want that 1.5L supercharged rotary in the new Miata!

I would love to see any rotary in the Miata. Even the current Renesis would be great, in my opinion. A supercharged or turbo 15B would be even better :D

Only reason I say NO is a matter of principle..

If the horsepower and torque don't come as a part of design there should be no 'cheating' (and i use this term loosely) in order to get more. Sure it pays off, is cheaper than engine development...

But it doesn't show what your company is made of, engineering wise. And personally I love when engineers take the hard way instead of the easy way -- It's what I most admire about BMW. Their engineers won't use turbos even if it accomplishes their goal perfectly. And as a result of their 'hard' route, they have one of the best inline 6's you will find in the WORLD. Not to mention a measly 3.2L I6 that puts out 333 horses in the M3 :D

Anyways... that's just my take on it. I think that the harder the Mazda engineers work the more breakthrus they will have in rotary development. To hand us a supercharged rotary is not hard... but to make the engine size and weight stay down and get more horses out of it by using the stuff they are trained for is just SO much more rewarding to both the development of the rotary as well as the consumer... who will notice the perfect throttle response that you will always miss even in the best implementation of FI.

Yet another reason I opt not for FI:

Edit: image isn't working.. next post!

The beauty of rotary is simplicity. Let's work on keeping the simple, simple, and make that simplicity work merely a little harder to get us more horses :)

Here's why :D

holy rat's nest batman!

good god! :eek:

my eyes hurt from looking at that pic. Not to mention my head.:( :D

Yea, now imagine troubleshooting that bastard :)

Thankfully, even if Mazda DOES FI the Renesis, the system won't need to ba ANYTHING like that crap. Modern Turbo's are so light that spin-up is so quick (compared to back in those days) that a sequential system like that is quite a waste. A single light turbo, or a supercharger, would require no vacuum hoses (well, maybe one if there is a bypass on the SC). I think Mazda would be making a mistake throwing a turbo on such a smooth engine, I much prefer superchargers... but then again, I've become quite opinionated on this subject.

Herc
That isn't a very far comparison. Very few FI cars are as complex as the sequential turbo on the gen 3. Most FI don't require that many vacuum tubes. This is one of the reasons going single would be such a great option on a 3rd gen.

Your point being what? That's not representative of what a turbo renesis would look like, and even the later revisions of TT RX-7s were greatly simplified from that.

The majority of arguments against turbos on this site only talk about what turbos were 10-15 years ago, not what they have become today. Turbos have come a LONG way since the 1980s, people.

I had 3 rx7 non turbos 2 twin turbo i will never buy a turbo rx ever again .they will make you go crazy repair it . i still got one and is a headeach. non turbo for me any time you can only go 55 mph or 65 without getting a ticket anyway .

I have owned an 81 and 88 na and an 88 TII. My TII lasted 140k before completely dieing, I would have like more miles, but its nothing like the 40k horror stories you hear about. My main reason for saying no to FI is that, while I enjoyed dipping into the boost, I didn't get as much satisfaction and rotary enjoyment out of the TII as I did either of the na's. They just seemed much smoother and more willing to rev, and that's what the rotary is all about.

I kinda like the idea of a low boost supercharged Renesis if they can keep the character of the rotary the same.

However, I'm confident that if Mazda does turbocharge the Renesis it will be infinitely better and more reliable than the any turbo rotary we've seen in the U.S. And I might change my mind after driving one...:)

-Stephen

Yes they should offer FI version of a Rotary but not a factory turbo RX-8.

The new RX-7 with the incresed displacment should get the big puffer on the side as well as a MPS version.

I would love for Mazda to make a Rotary Supercar.

I dont care what they do. Just give the thing some more low and mid-range torque. 159lbft ain't cutting it for me. Even if it comes on at 1rpm, it is still "only" 159lbft of torque.

... weren't you Mr.Integra?? i can't remember...

note: we don't need ANOTHER "retards guide to torque, gearing, mass, and acceleration"... let him search if he wants, unless you're feeling generous with your time, then just a link should be okay... let's not go OT

Nope, Not me... Integras are okay cars but way out of my demographic. Contrary to popular belief, I like the RX-8 A lot.


Who is that Gay looking guy in your sig?

I'm right with you on that one. I think Mazda should offer different versions...different strokes for different folks, right? :)

I'll take a turbo model please :)

Oh come on now Herc :) So you are a fan of increasing rotor width to get more power, is that it? So somehow in your mind, increasing displacement is "high tech" development?!?! There is no approach to increased power that is more low tech or "cheating" than the "let's make it bigger" approach. If anything, increasing the displacement is the easy way out.

Producing more power from the same displacement and making it work reliably is the real challenge. FI is in no way easy, or low tech....it makes the same engine more efficient.

Of course, I'm giving you a hard time....all in good fun :) But if you are going to make the argument against FI on the basis of "furthering rotary development" and "Mazda demonstrating their engineering prowess", then you should be more against the increase in rotor width than you are against FI. Indeed, to execute a good FI design, Mazda will need to make strides in such areas as design for knock supression and apex seal durability. Now THAT'S real development.

Herc, honestly, have you ever driven a modern FI car? :)

For what it's worth, I just test drove the Mazdaspeed Protege which I will probablly buy tomorrow due to lack of RX-8 fundage. The turbo is very small, uses ball bearings and produces 6psi of boost. I couldn't even tell when it kicked in.

I'm no expert but I would think that a similar application would be a good idea for the RX-8. Low boost and keep it as simple as possible and I would think that it would hold up over time and not stress the engine too much.

Incresing displacement isn't easy as you also increase the hotspots in the engine also weight apex selas are easier to break due to greater mass in the rotor. the list goes on and on.

So bascailly to design a say...... 14BMSP-RE

Would be a ground up build only the rotary concept would stay the same every thing else would have to be redesigned. I hope they leave the RX-8 in NA form though and for a MPS version put in the new wider 14BMSP-RE in it in NA form (260kW @ least detuned to 206kW i'm sure though)

Then for a new 4th gen RX-7 put in a turbocharged version of the 14BMSP-RE which would be 330kW+ aroundbouts !!!!!

Thats my 0.02c

Anyway !