a few tip for those new to rotary engines!
 

Just a few tips for new rotary engine owner who are coming from piston engine cars.

1.- Please let the engine break in for a good amount of time before you drive your car hard.

2.- Please let the engine break in for a good amount of time before you tae your car over 100MPH and think its okay.

3.- Please let the engine break in for a good amount of time before you drive your car like you stole it.

4.- Please let the engine break in for a good amount of time before you start doing donuts with your car.

5.- Please make sure you do oil changes with regular non-synthetic oil just as they came from the factory. If you dont tell that to the person/shop/quick oil chage shop doing your oil change, they will use synthetic.

6.-You have got to change your spark plugs more often than you do with a regular piston engine, I do it at least every 10-20.000 miles.

7.-Be sure sure to check your oil regularly as rotary engines use oil to burn and lubracte the combustion chamber, therefor it requieres you to add oil every so often. That means do your oil changes on time and check oil in between.

8.- Check your coolant/water mixture, is not typical on new rotary engines but as they get old it tends to run low every once in a while and if you ever overheat your car, you will fry your o-ring seals.

9.- Please do not add exhausts, take the catalyst converter or try to add any other performance part other than an intake. The ECU on rotary engines are very acurate and if you unbalance any of the timed fuel/air ratio by adding a performance upgrade, you can blow your enngine pretty easy.

10.- if you are interested in upgrading your car with performance parts, mae sure you upgrade your computer management system with a staged ECU as you add performance parts if available.

11. I can just keep going adding more tips but it will take all night

I good advise will be to check 3d gen RX-7 site that offers help, troubleshooting and offers more tips like the ones above, after all is the same engine and it should use similar care

here is just a few good rotary sites to learn a lot of stuff for those new to rotary engines

http://www.rx7turboturbo.com/robrobinette/howtos.htm

http://www.iluvmyrx7.com/index.htm

http://www.scuderiaciriani.com/rx7/

Also using this is a good tip
Pettit Racing
Protek-R
Synthetic Fuel Lubricant

Protek-R is specially designed for use in Rotary Engines. Protek-R is an advanced high performance synthetic lubricity system which contains precision engineered lubricating molecules that help protect Rotary Engines from the damaging effects of molecular shearing and metal to metal contact. Regular use of Protek-R's superior formula has the following advantages:

- Reduced wear on rotor housings and side housings
- Clean Burn Technology reduces carbon and residue build-up
- Ashless, No smoke formula provides cleaner exhaust than 2-stroke oil
- Anti-Oxidation protection against fuel system rust and corrosion
- Low flash point helps stop plug fouling

DIRECTIONS:
Add Protek-R to tank before adding fuel using the following formula:
STREET: Minimum of one 4-oz bottle per full 12 gallon tank
RACE: Mix at Ratio 100:1

NET 4 FL. OZ.

To order this product call
(954) 563-6064

Manufactured in USA exclusively for Excellent Performance Inc., Fort Lauderdale, FL 33311 by Klotz SFP Inc.

CleanBurn is a registered trademark of Klotz SFP Inc.

Protek-R is a registered trademark of Excellent Performance Inc

Copyright 1998 by Excellent Performance Inc


From Page 28 of Rotary Power, our 1st and 2nd Generation RX-7 Performance Parts Catalog:


Rotary Engine Tech Tip

The rotary's oil injection system operates like this: Oil is fed via the engine oiling system (crankcase) to a variable ratio metering pump. From there, it is routed to the engine where it trickles in, partially mixing with the onrushing air-fuel mixture. Fuel-to-oil ratios of 400:1 and higher are common. With over 20 years of rotary experience, we have seen the harsh effects of insufficient lubrication on the delicate internal components of rotary engines. To add to this condition, fuel is of the unleaded variety and designed to CLEAN. High combustion temperatures produced by rotary engines break down the oil film, then today's super fuels finish the job, leaving internal components, i.e. apex seals, side seals, corner seals, etc, void of lubrication. As a result, friction and wear increase, performance and efficiency decrease. Because of this, Protek-R was developed. By adding only 4 ounces to the average fill-up of 15 gallons of fuel, the fuel-to-oil ratio is improved by 100%, bringing the ratio to 200:1 or better. Protek-R can extend rotary engine life by 30% or more, depending on your driving habits and consistency of use.

- Extends engine life
- Reduces internal friction and wear
- Less drag and more power
- Full protection against rust and corrosion
- Blends completely with fuel
- Easier starting
- Carbon free
- 100% synthetic

Look for Protek-R under Lubricants

http://www.pettitracing.com/Frames/html/Protek-R.html

However all those tips are born from years of RX-7 experiance. However that doesnt necesaraly apply carte blanche on the 8's engine/systems. You really need to let people know this is RX-7 experience and elts face it, while 7's are cool, any kind of mods makes it a full time job almost tokeep it running.

So far several people have gotten intakes/exhausts without any problems (yet!) so we shall see how it goes.

RX7FD3,

You need to be more specific. What is a "good amount of time" ?
600 miles (Mazda Manual) or 6,000 miles ?

That i dont know. check your manual for that. In FDs is 5000 miles to 8000 miles, some say 3000K, is hard to say! It just all depends how you are planning to drive your car. If you are gonna drive it hard, i recommend the longer break in time, the better.

You can do that with any fd also. It is just simple basics....
If you have more air ratio in an engine, therfore you need more fuel to burn at the same rate and be able to run the engine properly.
If you just add intake, and exhaust and dont do anything to compensate the fuel intake by mapping your ecu or fule injectors...then how do you expect that engine to run good???? thats is just common sense!!

That is why there is so many RX-7s blowing up engines! You wont know for sure right away! it takes time for that engine to wear out!

What are the benefits of this engine again??

It makes less HP then the Z06 but uses more fuel.

It is easily flooded.

Oil has to be checked often.

Has low torque.

A lot of RX8s seem to be having problems with the engine, replacing an engine with under 5,000 miles is odd.

A lot of the 93+ RX7s I've seen for sale have low mileage, or if higher mileage (130,000km) they have a rebuilt engine. Whats the durability of rotary???

I am seriously considering buying an RX8, love the look, interior, weight, but all these engine problems are sort of turning me off.

I think the RX8 rotary compares well to the TDI found in VWs. On paper it looks okay, but in real life it just isn't like that. I am rural vet (45,000km+/year), I bought a 2002 Golf TDI, 55mpg and all. NOThing but problems, they advertise the car as economical but it is FAR form economical. When I go on the TDI forums everyone just patronizes the TDI. When I complain about the $100 oil changes, everyone just says, "just change it yourself." I need a new ECONOMICAL daily driver, probably will be a Civic or Mazda3.

Yea well anyway, I really don't like the 350z, like the RX8, just seems like too many problems. I'll wait for the 2005 RX8.

Wish toyota would bring the supra back.

Capitan Ron,

You have got good points but keep in mind that anytime you have so many people focusing on any product the problems get exaggerated while the nice things are assumed as given. The same is true for every other car forum, Audi, BMW, etc.

To me, the RX-8 has some shortcomings but overall the positives far exceed the negatives. I REALLY look forward to driving this car and that's all that counts to me.

For the record, this is my first rotary, I have 3,100 miles on it and have only had it at the dealer for two items:

Oil pan replacement
Driver side mirror was warped

no flooding, no CEL, no oil adding, no other problems.

If my car would get totalled in an accident today, I would buy another one tomorrow(assuming I survived the accident).

Good points you brought up but truetfully an RX-8 or RX-7 is car that should only be meant to be owned by a car fanatic not just someone who want a cheap reliable car...that why Hondas were invented.

3 points why rotaries are so popular

1.- an RX-8 or RX7 looks better than any american car and certainly catches the eye of everyone on the street. Things you can only get with a ferrari or lamborguini

2.- Who told you it uses more gas????

3.- for those who buy them because of their performance, the rotary love comes when you change all the BS parts from MAZDA and put aftermarket options that can make a super fast car that will leave a ferrari in the dust. you cant get 600HP of a golf can you? you can with a single turbo Rotary engine

I wasn't comparing the Golf Vs RX8.

The Golf is my daily driver! The RX8 would not replace my Golf, it would be my evening/weekend car.

I was just comparing the TDI to a rotary. Everyone who owns one or the other claims it is awesome, ect. But when you add the negative and positives, they aren't as great as they seem.

As for the fuel. My dad owns a Z06 and he gets around 13L/100km. According to some RX8 owners, 15L+/100km can be expected.

Re: a few tip for those new to rotary engines!
 

Please tell me what quick oil change place...or any oil change place for that matter....uses synthetic oil, which is almost universally more expensive, rather than non-synthetic unless you tell them otherwise?

Are you aware that the RX-8 has an air flow meter, as opposed to the speed density system on the FD? This is the primary reason why it is not that hard to mod an FD into grenading itself. If you increase the amount of air, it doesn't necessarily realize it, it doesn't add more fuel, and boom. But even with that, you can safely do reasonable things like intake and partial exhaust on an FD without an ECU upgrade...just don't remove the cat or turn up the boost. This should be even more true with the RX-8, as the stock ECU has the ability to monitor the actual amount of air coming in, rather than just the boost pressure, and so it can make changes to the fuel delivery as long as you don't do something to lessen the air flow meter's effectiveness (possible reason for reported success of Tornado, see other thread somewhere else on here). That's not a blank check to go crazy of course, but I don't think basic mods are nearly as risky as you make them sound. You keep saying to check out the RX7 forum, or Pettit Racing, etc...but neither of those sites are really all that anti-mod, even with the relative fragility of the FD.

jds

Re: Re: a few tip for those new to rotary engines!
 

i didnt say to be anti-mods. But just make sure that if you do to be careful on what you put and when... Indeed you can use an air intake and downpipe and be okay. As soon as you remove the cat is when you start having problems.
As a matter of fact,
a friend of ours locally with an FD
Stock car, HKS intake, Downpipe and exhaust. He decided to get rid of the cat, and put a straight pipe. As soon as he did that, we warned him that he couldnt because he was running a stock ecu and fuel management and guess what,

as soon as we were done, he got on the high way, running stock boost, he pushed the throtle to achieve about 80MPH as soon as he did that, smoke came out of the engine and we had to pull over. BLOWN APEX SEAL!

Same thing applied to any rotary, An intake, or downpipe wont affected it as much..but i see people putting full exhaust w/o car and driving their cars to over 120MPH, without evey waiting to break in the engine...thats just an apex seal waiting to be blown.

EZ Lube uses Mobil 1 exclusively, no organic oils.

I just read the fuel mileage post. Wholy crap!! 13mpg? 13mpg = 18L/100km. Thats really really bad.

where the hell did you get that. Here directly from MAZDA

RX-8
Auto 18MPG City and 25 HWY
Manual 18MPG City and 24 HWY

RX-7 FD 1993-1995 USDM/2001 JDM
Auto 17MPG City and 24 HWY
Manual 17MPG City and 25 HWY

Yap! that's the miles per gallon.

Sadly my RX-8 gives me a lower MPG than my other car which is a 5.0 litre V8, 302BHP, 363 lbft torque and carries a 4,500 lbs big German sedan to 60 MPH faster than the RX-8.

No kidding! I'm amazed. I haven't been to one of those places in years, but "back in the day" it seemed like they used the cheapest stuff they could find. I don't think we have EZ Lubes down here (S. Florida) but maybe that's the trend now.

jds

Re: Re: Re: a few tip for those new to rotary engines!
 

Yep, can't argue with that. Certainly the FD is/was not a car to be modified without knowing what you were doing. Well, that's probably true for any car, but I think the ramifications of diving in head first without clue were more severe in the RX-7 case than in many other cars...not sure that same level of caution applies to the RX-8, but better safe than sorry. It just seemed you were taking that healthy paranoia to a level beyond what was called for, sorry if I just misinterpreted you.

jds

-Power to Weight ratio
-Power to Size ratio
-Power to Displacement ratio
-High rpm smoothness
-High Power tuning potential
-Reliability when properly tuned and cared for

You can't compare a 3rd gen RX-7 to an RX-8. Trust me I'm an RX-7 person. The 3rd gen RX-7 was very sensitive to mods as bereau said. It is a speed density system the RX-8 has a Mass Air Flow sensor. The speed density system doesn't know when more air is going into the engine. It is running off of a preset map based on throttle level and rpm. The MAF system of the RX-8 will be able to sense airflow differences and will accomodate accordingly to a point. It will not sense boost but simple exhaust or intake mods will NOT blow the engine. removing the cat on the RX-8 will NOT cause the engine to blow up either. On a turbo car as a general rule (not exact) for every 1 psi of exhaust back pressure you free up, it is equivalent to 2 psi boost on the intake side. When the cat was removed on the 3rd gen the car made much more power since the turbo had an easier time of getting air into the engine. Remeber that the 3rd gen doesn't know when it gets more air and can't compensate. Boom. The 2nd gen turbo RX-7s could be modded easier than the 3rd gens since they could detect more airflow right up to the point that the air flow meter door was maxed out. The 3rd gen speed density system is very finicky. While most of the tips are good, the intake and exhaust advice isn't correct for this car.

Yes gas mileage is bad for this car? Where did we hear that from? How about the owners! Different people are getting different results but none are spectacular. It isn't because the engine isn't capable of better mileage, it is because the computer is tuned in a way which causes bad mileage. The 3rd gen RX-7 got better gas mileage than the 2nd gen turbo RX-7s. It is all in the tuning. When the Renesis won international engine of the year the mileage figures they had posted then were 20 mpg city, 30 hwy. It also made more power than the production version. It should be much higher. I'm sorry but there is no excuse for a low mileage engine any more. Not with todays technology. An LS-1 can get upper 20s all day long with well over 300 hp.

I agree that the RX-8 should not be compared with the twin turbo 3rd Gen RX-7. My 2nd Gen (normally aspirated) got 22 mpg when I sold it with 110K miles on it, never had any major engine problems, the oil was clear when I changed it every 3-4000 miles, but you did have to watch yourself if you started it cold and then shut it down before it warmed up. I've heard that the 3rd gen wasn't as bad about flooding.

My mileage at 5400 miles, hovers around 17mpg. I'm using about a quart every 2500 miles, about the same for my 1988 RX-7.

I think waiting for the 2005 is a prudent plan. Sorry, I couldn't wait, took the gamble and so far.. winning!

RX7FD3...

I guess Mazda must be right and ALL of us owning RX8s are wrong on the mileage issue. Dude, you keep saying things are black when maybe they are really grey or even white. Do you have an RX8?

I think you should knock three of those items off the list. Power to Displacement ratio just a number; interesting to know, but I don't see how it has any external effect. Also, you can't say much about the reliability of an engine that's only been out for a few months. Tuning potential is speculative as well. Has anyone but canzoomer added more than 20hp to this car?

So what's left is an engine that's not particularly powerful, but very small and light, allowing us to have four real seats. In exchange, it requires special care like never killing it cold and occasionally adding oil. And it's especially sensitive to overheating. But it's smooth!

Sorry if I'm coming across negatively. I'm infatuated with the car, like many, but its "rotaryness" does not seem like much of a selling point. Before I knew much about it, I heard rotaries were fuel-effecient, powerful, and reliable. After reading, I see that they are not exceptional in any of those areas.

As an RX-8 owner, I disagree with your conclusions. Aggressively driving the car, I get 21-22 mpg. I just got done today turning off the DSC and had fun smoking the tires. This car is THE complete package, with the RENESIS to thank for it.

rxeightr, as a forum lurker and RX-8 non-owner, I have to disagree with your conclusions. On the US Department of Energy's comparison page for sports/sporty cars (sorted by fuel efficiency), the RX-8 sits below the middle of the page. That's nothing to be proud of. Outside of the category, it gets worse. At least a dozen SUV's, the prototypical gas guzzlers, get better mileage than the RX-8.

Again the mileage. 2 points I'd like to say (again).

When I got the car I knew the BEST I could hope for was 18 city and 24 HW. That was clearly posted on the car when I went to look at it. Why do I say at most? Cause you know to get that number they "drove" the car with the most fuel-economy oriented style. Everybody here who has bought the car was aware of this. I dont know why people expect to be able to drive the car in city traffic and expect to get 20MPG. It's not gonna happen as things stand now. That being said, my average with 100% city driving and moderate AC usage is 16.6 (close enough for me) and my 100% highway test netted me a very awesome (to me) 26.6MPG. So for me it balances out. Not to say that a lot of people arent seeing horrible mileage, but I sure didnt get that.

And secondly anybody not making the right mileage should be taking the car to the dealer and complaining. I dont know how some folks are actually accepting 13MPG and not raising a firestorm with Mazda. It seems to me there is something very obviously wrong with some engines/ECU/hamsters in the car.

Now that being said from an engineering standpoint (cant deny my roots) I really like the rotary engine concept and the implementation in the 8 for me is fantastic. I was pretty much finishing the paperwork on a Vette and thanks to a bungling dealer, I stopped the sale and ended up with the 8 after all is said is done. As a long time Vette fan and having had a chance to drive them on ocasion (never could afford one, but then again it was a super deluxe car back home that very few could afford) I am sooo happy that dealer was a idiot.

So what I am saying is I love my 8, the mileage I am getting is right where it should be and the people with really low mileage should get off their keisters and start bugging Mazda to get it fixed. The roatry engine is a very cool thing IMHO (much more elegant than pistons, even if frought with other enginnering problems that are pretty big).

/*Rambling off*/

Point 1 :

You shpuld never 'kill' any engine from cold. Let alone a performance, tuned engine. let the thing warm up first please.

Point 2 :

The Renesis. It is a fantastic engine, just drive an RX-8 and hit that buzzer in 2nd and 3rd and you'll know why people like it. yes a good V6 will give similar HP and better MPG. But it wont behave like a rotary, and it'll be heavier and over the front axle. You cant take the engine and the car separate. And you cant judge the whole on 1/4mile performance. This car is built to handle not just go straight fast. Look at the racing forum, its more than capable of competing with S2000's and Boxters on track, and it has totaly usable REAR seats.

I've only just got my RX-8 (UK car, almost 700miles on it). I'm still 'running in' but a lot of those miles have been on 'A' and 'B' roads (2 lane twisty, narrow country lanes). Even limiting myself to 7k rpm max, and not WOT (80% max) the car is a blast, because of its so direct and fast steering, handling, ability to soak up the road but stick to it like glue and give the driver enough feedback to let them know whats going on.

A lot of this is down to the renasis's low weight, and the fact that the car has 50/50 weight, most of it being in the center. Lots of cars go on aboiut 50/50 weight distribution, but if its all over the axles its POLAR momentum is gona be horrible.

The engines low weight,low size and position make the car turn qiucker, handle better, stop qicker time after time. But I guess it depends on what you want and how you drive. If I wanted a quick car in a straight line, for motorway driving etc, the RX-8 wouldnt be that car (prehaps an Audi or something). Driving straight isnt fun, doesnt take skill, bores meh. Corners are fun.

IMO, from whats on sale in the UK, this car is the closest to a 4 seater Lotus Elise I'm going to get (what do you think they'd give to have a renesis in the elise?), and that'll do me fine.

[Wish toyota would bring the supra back. [/B][/QUOTE]



you said it brother.......love my RX8 in the meantime..

I have just been suppied with shell Helix synthetic oil! I queried it and they said they guy from shell said it was fine to use! Running in time, mazda told me there is no running in time as warranty is so good! But u should make sure engine is nice and warm obviously!!!
Exhausts, if they r that bad mazdaspeed would not supply them or the intake filters! There are tooooooooooooo many rumours flooding this site!

The rotary's low weight and small size are essential to the RX8 being the world's only 2900-pound RWD 4-door with all of the following: 200+ HP, smooth engine, comfortable ride, and sports-car balance, handling, braking, and road-feel.

Many of the RX8's other positives, such as excellent steering feedback and smooth shifting, have little or nothing to do with the rotary and perhaps Mazda could've tried to design it around a piston engine like the S2000's F20c. But that engine is larger so I doubt it'd work (and the S2000 engine costs more due to its comparatively complex design and precise tolerances, so you wouldn't be able to get an RX8 6MT for $25k like you can now).

The downside to the RX8's rotary are poor fuel economy, low torque, high oil consumption, and a special cold-engine-shutdown procedure. Sure you can get more power and better fuel economy with an engine such as the LS1, but your vehicle won't have the RX8's driving dynamics *and* 4-doors.

Every car is a compromise... choose based on your priorities.

I just got my RX8 a couple weeks ago.

I'm getting 18.5 - 20 MPG mostly city driving.

My build date is 12/03. Not sure if that matters. No clue which ECU flash it is. I don't think that RX8 has MPG issues. This is exactly what I expected to get as it is exactly what the EPA sticker on the side of the window said.

Just my 2 cents on the issue.

Hey you are the one that dug up a thread that died 8 months ago! Actually, there is a lot of great technical information on this site to offset the typical Sport Compact "intake/header/exhaust" school of generic FWD 4 cylinder tuning. Cat-back exhausts are worth a few HP, headers so far do not provide any power, and some intakes provide a bit of power at high rpm, some lose power.

As for MazdaSpeed accessories - just because a company markets something does not automatically mean that there are benefits that you're hoping for. Cause and effect - not to imply that MazdaSpeed products are bad, but how do you explain the 0 added power headers or intakes that make no power on the market? By your logic, "if they're that bad Company X would not supply them!" No, they supply them because people want to buy them, and are willing to buy them without any proof that there is a power improvement etc. Caveat Emptor.

Regards,
Gordon

Gofdon thany you for saying that. I was about to post the same thing.

How many products do people buy everyday that don't do anything but marketing made people think they do? From a business standpoint, you make what sells. From an ethical standpoint, you make what works.

Hmmm, an incoherent reply to a 7 month old thread. (???)