Did I make the Right Choice? (M3 to RX8)
 

I'm turning the keys to my 97 BMW M3 sedan 5spd over to the new owner in about 5 hours then flying out a few hours away to drive home a new 6 spd 05 Winning Blue RX8 with sport/appearance and rotary accent packages with no rear spoiler. I got 10 grand off MSRP on the RX8 but something doesn't feel right going from a 3.2L I6 car with leather/8 speaker HK sound to a car with cloth interior, no sunroof and crap base stereo and paying 270/mo for 3 years to get it.

I know the RX8 is a great handling car, revs high and looks decent. I also love the gauges, 6spd manual vs 5spd, and 4 year 50K miles warranty. Also looking forward to not having to fix small problems out of pocket. Also my insurance rate went down a bit from the M3 to the RX8. Besides that are there any other positive points to the RX8? I guess it'll just take a while to get over the psychological effect of knowing I went from the best BMW to a sport Mazda.

Sorry for my rant, I would like to say that doing a bit of research here in the last week that it looks to be a very knowledgble forum full of nice people. I think I'll enjoy my stay for the 3-4 years of RX8 ownership.

If you drove the RX-8 and liked it better than your M3 you made the right choice <shrugs>

Can't say I liked it better except maybe the sharper steering response. The M3 has way more torque across the band and topend seems to be stronger too. I'm buying the RX8 because the M3 is getting older and costly to fix down the road and besides a used S2000 nothing seemed viable to me besides the RX8 and I got 10 grand off MSRP so I pulled the trigger.

In that case, only time will tell if you made the right choice.

Good Luck :)

heya budy, my family has a E46 M3 and 325i, i get to drive it pretty often. E36 M3 is a great driver's car, RX8 isnt up to par in overall performance (straightline or handling) //M3 is about 1/2 sec faster in 0-60 and 1/4 mile and has much stiffer suspension. However unless youre a big track guy, the important thing is, rx8 is also a DRIVER's CAR with crisp handling and great chasis.

Like you said... the cost of ownershifp for the E36 M3 is pretty rediculous, and the reliability isnt that great, little things that break often can cost exorbitant amount of money. To put it bluntly its a money pit. I think you made a good decision switching to a new car with warranty.

The only 3 CONS i can think of are...

1) the RX8 has a rotary engine so theres some quirks to it that needs sepecial attention (do a search on the forum for "engine flooding", "engine oil") - just quirks and not really problems if you are careful.

2) fuel economy is pretty bad, (M3 isnt much better)

3) resale value is pretty bad, why do you think youre getting 10k off msrp for a new car? :p:

I think in the long run you will save a lot of money by switching from a 10 year old car to a new rx8, yet still be driving a great handling and balanced car. the peace of mind of having factory warranty is well worth the concession in performance. Just imagine how much it would cost you if some major drivetrain component breaks in the M3? its a scary thought!

btw why did you not get a rx8 with sunroof, leather and premium sound system? with 10k off MSRP you might as well load up on luxury options. with the exception of sound system, when loaded with options, the rx8 interior IMO is much superior to the spartan E36 M3 interior.

on top gear, the stig ran 1'31.8" for the M3, RX-8 and 350Z, so all three cars have some strong points and weaknesses. so it is now down to the point on money.
the rx8 is cheapest, maintenance is cheaper, insurance is cheaper, the only thing high is the fuel comsumsion.

Rank Car Time taken in minutes
1 Pagani Zonda F 1.18.4
2 Maserati MC12 1.18.9
3 Ferrari Enzo 1.19.0
4 Ariel Atom 1.19.5
5 Porsche Carrera GT 1.19.8
6 Ascari KZ1 1.20.7
7 Mercedes-Benz SLR McLaren 1.20.9
8 Ford GT 1.21.9
9 Porsche GT3 RS 1.22.3
10 Ferrari 360 CS 1.22.3
11 Murcielago 1.23.7
12 Zonda 1.23.8
13 Koenigsegg 1.23.9
14 Sagaris 1.24.6
15 Tuscan 1.24.8
16 Evo FQ 400 1.24.8
17 Noble 1.25.0
18 Gallardo 1.25.8
19 Aero 8 GTN 1.25.9
20 BMW M5 1.26.2
21 Porsche Cayman 1.26.2
22 Ferrari 575 GTC 1.26.8
23 Chevrolet Corvette 1.26.8
24 Lotus Exige 1.26.9
25 Aston Martin Vanquish S 1.27.1
26 Porsche 911 GT3 1.27.2
27 Spyker C8 1.27.3
28 TVR 350C 1.27.5
29 Wiesmann 1.27.9
30 BMW M3 CSL 1.28.0
31 Dodge Viper SRT-10 1.28.5
32 MG SV 1.28.6
33 Mitsubishi Evo VIII 1.28.9
34 Porsche 911 Carrera S 1.28.9
35 Mercedes CL65 1.29
36 BMW Alpina Z8 1.29.0
37 Impreza STi WRX WR1 1.29.4
38 Alfa 3.7 GTA 1.30.0
39 Subaru Impreza STI 1.30.1
40 Aston Martin DB7 GT 1.30.4
41 Audi S4 1.30.9
42 Porsche 911 turbo 1.31.0
43 Vauxhall VX220 turbo 1.31.3
44 Honda NSX Type-R 1.31.6
45 Mazda RX8 1.31.8
46 Nissan 350Z 1.31.8
47 BMW M3 1.31.8
48 Ford Focus RS 1.32.2
49 Lotus Esprit V8 1.32.5
50 Audi TT V6 1.32.7
51 Jaguar E-Type 1.32.8
52 MG ZT 1.33
53 Noble 1.33.1
54 Volkswagen Golf R32 1.33.2
55 Mercedes SL55 AMG 1.33.2
56 Cadillac CTS-V 1.33.3
57 Clio Cup 1.33.8
58 Holden Monaro 1.33.9
59 Ford Focus ST 1.34.9
60 Volvo S60R 1.35.0
61 Alfa 147 GTA 1.35.6
62 Lotus Elise 1.35.6
63 Renault Clio v6 1.36.2
64 Honda Civic Type-R 1.36.5
65 Saab 95 hot aero 1.37.9
66 Mazzer 1.38.0
67 Bowler Wildcat 1.39.4
68 Bentley Arnarge 1.40.8
69 Overfinch 1.44.0
70 DB5 1.46.0

Is there a reason why you didn't update to a new M3?

Otherwise, what they said. You'll miss the torque but with the right suspension mods you'll find the 8 equals or betters the E46 for handling.

And newer always feels good. :mdrmed:

I was in the exact same boat as you. I had a 97 M3, but started to get really annoyed with a ll the little shit that was breaking. Water pump died on me a couple weeks after I bought it. Then I was perpetually worried about the head gasket going, or the rear mounts exploding, or the front bushings finally wearing out. With that car I actually got three nails in different tires within a year. Never had that happen with any of my cars (I have had 5) So I sold it and picked up a 05 rx-8. I love how everything is responsive, and basically everything is covered under warranty. I recently had a injector go bad on me, and I just took it to the dealer and they fixed it asap. :)

can we please stop mentioning that top gear comparison... :spank:
i think it's pretty much set in stone that the m3 will outrun the 8 in all tracks besides the twisties.
that said, as long as you don't miss some power, the 8 is great.

And Honda still wanted how much $$ for one of these things when they were finally discontinued? :mdrmed:

Looking forward to checking out the new one though. :cool:

Agreed.

(oh no - I'm inadvertently contributing to a vs thread! :nono: :mdrmed: )

Yes, you traded in a 9 year old car for a new one without too much performance drop, I think its all right.

There was standing water on the track when the NSX ran, and it would be at least a few seconds faster if it was dry. They also take the first fairly clean lap rather than taking several laps to see the best a car can come up with. In other words, it's good for entertainment, but don't put too much weight in the numbers.

No matter what people on this forum want to think, the RX-8 and Z are not the equal of an E46 M3 on a track, E36 (what we're talking about) would be pretty close.

The NSX Type R was competitive in different tracks with different cars including supercars, the RX-8 loses everytime unless against < 250 hp class. Wake up Revolver!

Great advice/write up.

As far as resale goes I was hoping I could still re-coup about 15-16 grand in 3 years when the car is paid off. At that time it will still have at least 1 year and probably 7-10 thousand miles left on the warranty so I figure half the original MSRP isn't too ridiculous.

I know about the engine flooding, the board did a great job documenting all the quirks so I'll be careful about that stuff. The M3 gas mileage actually isn't bad for a 3.2L I6, I can average about 24 mpg half and half.

I didn't get the grand touring package because I'm about 6 foot and I like to drive sitting farily straight up and I also autocross. All these things together already limit my headroom with a sunroof equipped car, add in a helmet and I can't even fit in a grand touring and up model that has a sunroof. I may eventually try and find my own leather seats from a totalled car and upgrade the speakers myself.

Once again M3 interior looks a bit outdated but it's far from spartan. It has nice leather seats and M red and blue stich steering wheel, power everything including one touch windows for all 4 front and rear (1 touch up AND down) and the sunroof. It also has a full digital dual climate control, 8 speaker harmon kardon stereo with 6 disc changer, 11 button on board computer telling you everything from outside temp to average speed or average fuel consumption and I guess the best thing is the solid THUD of a german car when you close the doors :)

BTW the really expensive driveline parts like engine/tranny etc rarely ever break in a BMW, it's just small dumb stuff like thermostat stuck open or blown 3 ohm door speakers etc that get on your nerves after a while.

Well i'm on the way to the airport to pickup the new M3 owner, I will report back later today when I return home in my new RX8.

Actually yes, the ones I could afford would be 01-02 models with at least 40K miles on it already. By the time I finished financing it then I'd have another 8 year old M3 with near 100K miles on it and be right where I am again right now.

Actually every bmw enthusiast will tell you that the E36 M3 has MUCH better steering response/feel and the E46 is quite a bit heavier and more vague on raw feedback. So I'd hope the RX8 is more similar to E36 M3 (or E30 M3) handling than E46.

I wish I had a payment that low over only 3 years!

The Rx-8 is a pretty high quality car, and if there are problems Mazda is pretty willing to fix no questions asked.
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SONYAROUGE

I think the biggest difference you are going to find is the build quality. The RX8 squeaks and rattles (interior), has rusty brake rotors, squeaky brakes (which are apparently unfixable by Mazda), and paint that chips and scratches VERY easily. I'm sure that your BMW is more expensive than the RX8 and so it would obviously be better quality, but the sticker price on mine was over $32K, and I would expect more for the price.

regarding Top Gear times, wasn't that an SMG (automatic) M3 they tracked?

Hey, you just described my RX8....except I also have a Bose door speaker buzz at certain frequencies that the dealer can never seem to replicate (so they won't fix it). The paint is a major disappointment.....every time I drive somewhere I can get out and find a new chip or scratch. Hey Mazda, you can put more than one coat of paint on a car......it's not illegal or anything.

The RX-8 is more than equal an E36 M3, except in fuel economy, but we all knew that already. The E46 M3, despite being heavier, will simply stomp an RX-8 into little tiny pieces if the owner just buys adjustable camber plates for the front. I make a very good living photographing and writing about BMW for three significant magazines which can all be found at a Barnes and Nobles, and for my MONEY, the RX-8 is a great upgrade from an E36 car. It has handling stock which rivals the Porsche Boxster, and tiny upgrades like better springs and shocks can turn it into a monster track machine. It pulls well from 3500 to the redline, and is happy doing it over and over, requiring only a repeated gas station stop to do it.

Mine has freakin' rust on the calipers too!
at least it did, till I got some steel wool. But I never had the brake squeal problem.

I forgot to answer the question in my last post, so instead of editing it, alow me to make another post.

I have always wanted a BMW M3, but if given the chance, I don't think I could switch cars, for some reason RX-8's seem to grab hold of you, like they are a living creature, one that you grow to love, despite the tendencies of heavy drinking problems, and daily beatings.

Have you ever known a German who didn't drink heavily and couldn't handle a good beating? LOL

The best out of how many?

another reason why the top gear test results need to be taken with a grain of salt is because they all aren't tested under similar conditions. some cars run on a bone dry track, and others run in monsoon like conditions. good for entertainment, poor for scientific validity.

I'm glad someone else understands this.

Funny, here you are questioning these results from a well known source because they show the 8 as being fast. Yet on some other recent thread, you showed some obscure magazine article from overseas that showed that a RX8 with slower lap times than the previous generation N/A Miata!!! But, you presented that as fact.

You're kinda pathetic, no?

Otherwise, I agree, a E46 M3 should be a faster than an 8 in the right hands.

damp track adds +3 secs to a good lap time
wet track adds +5 secs to a good lap time

on average, thats using the same tire in dry/wet....usualy a summer/dry performance tire on sports cars.

I honestly don't see why people come on to this forum after they have already signed on to get the car, and then ask if they made the right decision. What did you expect everybody to say? Honestly.

It's an RX-8 enthusiast forum. Of course most people (except Ike) will say yes you did.

What matters is if you like it. Will you mind the drop in performance and class? That is up to you. If you weren't sure if you wanted it, then don't get the car. Don't let other people make up your mind for you, that is just dumb.

Sorry to jack the thread but something caught my eye that just didn't look right.

24 Lotus Exige 1.26.9
62 Lotus Elise 1.35.6

Is it possible that an added rear spoiler and hand made body pannels will make an almost 10 second difference in lap times?

No. It was probably pissing rain when the Elise was tested. It's a perfect example of why the TG test times are ENTERTAINMENT ONLY. Despite what some people would love to believe.

That was a test done to determine the best drivers car in Britain. All the tests were done on the same day in the same conditions by professional race drivers. It's safe to say they weren't taking sloppy laps like Top Gear will for their TV show.
I never presented the article as definitive track times, I just said it will give you an idea of how a RX-8 compares to the STI in various track measurements.

What's really pathetic is you agree with me but you still had to take a swipe at me and whine about something.

SMG is NOT automatic, it has a clutch and 6 different gears. Its a manual transmission, except the gear selector and clutch is hydraulicly controled by the computer, vs your arm and leg. it IS a manual trany. Same as the F1 gearbox in a Ferrari.

also one of the biggest handling mods you can do to a car is tires. Some of the cars tested by top gear are on NEAR track only tires, others (like the rx8) are on a performance street tire.

The only constant with the top gear tests is they have the same driver (usualy, how do you know the stig is always the same driver? Do you really think that renault let some TV show test driver take their F1 car out on the track for a few laps? Some of the cars they test are rare cars, dont you think the owner might want to drive the lap? Who know. Part of the reason they have the stig in a generic uniform is so that anyone could be the stig.

right, i belive the elise time was in the wet, an the exige in the dry.

Lotus themselfs said the exige vs an elise (stock for stock) is only good for like 2-3 secs or something.

Call the SMG whatever you like, it's still slower than the 6 speed around the track.

The rx8 is superior to the e36 m3 in every aspect except for straightline speed. Interior is much nicer, exterior is newer, handling is better, brakes are better, it's more comfy for a daily, it's more reliable etc etc.

Now, you will have worse gas mileage, and you will probably miss your torque, but i dont think you made a bad choice.

I Couldn't have said it better myself.

RX-8 is a slow car. But how many times do you even race anyway? If you want power go turbo it or something.

Point taken re: NSX - I wasn't aware of the comparison details. Still, you have to admit that it was pretty poor value for money towards the end of its life.

As for the M3 - my bad - I meant to say E36. I agree the E46 trumps the 8 and Z, even on tighter tracks.

My point was time had passed it by, especially considering what Honda was still charging for it.

Chill. I'm awake.

Perhaps the Elise had the old Rover engine?

There was a significant power upgrade when the Toyota engine was fitted to the Elise 111R and Exige.

I had the brake squeal too but I wouldn't say it's unfixable...went to another dealership and they replaced the brake pads. No squeal every since (2,000 miles and counting). I do have one rattle, the rear view mirror. There's a fix in the DIY section that I'm gonna try out to see if I can resolve that one. Hate the paint chips though, I have 3 already :p:

The brake squeal is by no means a universal problem.

I've never had it and nor have several other owners I know.

However, I'm not denying that some cars suffer from it.