Dealer used wrong oil: response from Mazda NA
 

Message Body: I just had my 15,000 service at Lou Bachrodt Mazda in
Coconut Creek, FL. The sticker in the window regarding the oil change
says that the oil grade used was 10W30, which is not the recommended oil
for this car according to the owners manual. According to
www.rx8club.com users, there have been several other complaints that
dealers are using the wrong oil for oil changes. Why are the techs not
using the recommended oil? I want to protect my car's engine and my
warranty. Thank you.

Response: Thank you for contacting Mazda. I appreciate the opportunity to respond to you.

Mazda recommends using 5W-20 as a standard engine oil for the RX-8.
However, other viscosities are permitted depending on the weather
conditions your vehicle operates in. Consult with your local authorized
Mazda dealer first.

When choosing an oil, 5W-30 or 5W-20 or even 10W-30, consider the
temperature range your vehicle will operate in before the next oil
change. Then select the appropriate viscosity based on our
recommendation and information on the product label.

The engine oil viscosity, or thickness, has an effect on fuel economy
and cold-weather operation (starting and oil flow).

Low-viscosity engine oils can provide improved fuel economy and
cold-weather performance. But high-temperature weather conditions
require higher-viscosity engine oils for satisfactory lubrication.

I hope this information proves helpful.

Again, thank you for contacting Mazda.

Wow, nice detailed answer. Not what you usually can expect from most big corporations.

Your dealer did you a favour.

What is interesting is that the Mazda response quoted the users manual and it says to look at the chart to see what oil to use at what operating temeratures. The only oil on the chart listed is 5w20 (????). Very weird. I am learning at maybe the 10w30 is better in my area (very hot S. Florida), but it is still unusual that it is not mentioned in the users manual.

I also greatly distrust anything this dealer does or says, but they are close to my house.

they probably didnt even use 10w30. they have a bunch of stickers with one weight printed but use them for all the cars. its not unusual. they also have standard things that print ont he invoices for like flashing a car- but it doesnt necesarrily mean thats the flash they did. its just generic. what does the invoice say? did you ask the service center what oil they used before contacting MNAO?

but- in floridsa its a good bet to not use 5w20. 5-30, 10-30 or even 20-50 would be good choices depending on driving styles and whether you trrack it or not etc

No, I didn't contact the dealer first because I simply don't trust anything they say. I have had poor service from the dealer since day one and frankly wouldn't even let them change the oil if I didn't have the pre-paid service plan. I don't track the car, and I am sure 10w30 isn't bad. But I just think that if they are not going to follow the dealer recommendation, they ought to tell me. The invoice does not specify the type of oil they used. I have had the oil changed every 4 months since 3/04 when I got it and this is the first time the sticker even said what grade oil was used. I top off with 5w20 though whenever needed.

Just seems funny to me that my dealer who has changed my oil for the past 30,000 miles on two differant RX-8's. Has never suggested to put anything other than 5W-20 And you know where I live. The Frying pan of the USA. It is 100 to 120 degrees here in the summer.
And all they put in it is 5-20.
I have to have my oil changed next week and I will bring this to there attention.

It had lots of words, but not very much useful information. How is the owner supposed to intelligently choose the appropriate oil? Apparently, since the owners' guide is moot on the subject, every RX-8 owner has to "Consult with your local authorized Mazda dealer"? Rubbish.

FYI, in Cyprus and most of Europe Mazda recommends 10W-30 semi-synthetic oil.

A friend in Italy has an RX-8 and he said he was recommended to use 5W-30. :dunno:

I sure am curious about this too Easy, I am 75 miles south of you, and I have decided to change out the tranny and diff for RP 85W140, but I never thought to up the weight on the engine oil (other than starting some pre-mixing for good measure, with or without the new flash). I am really interested to hear what a good weight is as I am bout due for my first oil change since I bought the car. God knows that engine is destined to run relatively hot for the next 2-3 months still.

-C

Here's a likely expaination for this dealer behavior. Dealers often buy their oil in 55 gal drums. That's so they can use that hose rather than individual cans, and of course it's a heck of a lot cheaper by the drum than by the quart.

So how many Mazdas use 5-20w? Not sure, but I'd guess the RX-8 only. Should they buy a drum and hook it up each time they do an RX-8 oil change. Unlikely.

Therefore we get what everyone else gets... 10-30w oil, the old standard. No plot to subvert your warranty, ruin your car, just simple economics and Mazda knows there's no problem doing it.

Why do they recommend 5-20w... like they said... helps fuel economy... therefore EPA ratings... that kind of thing.

No, it does have a lot of useful information. Not for you or for me, because we already know all that, but for most people it gives a lot of information like:

1. Other viscosities are permited depending on weather conditions.
2. When choosing the oil, you've to consider temperature.
3. The engine viscosity has effect on fuel economy and cold-weather operation.
4. Low viscosity oil can provide improved fuel economy and cold-weather performance but high-temperature conditions requier higher viscosity engine oild.

That's a lot of shannons of information for most people!

Muchisimas gracias for all the info- I think it is pretty obvious I need to switch up to something a little thicker.... and re-stock my on-hand top off quarts with the same...

-C

I wish this had come up before the case of 5W-20 Royal Purple I just ordered.
If the low viscosity has a positive effect on fuel economy in cold climes, how much does viscosity affect fuel economy in hot climates?

It has an effect on fuel economy in both hot and cold climates. I don't know how much, but the thinner the oil the better the fuel economy. That's why the API label on thinner oils says "Energy Conserving." Thinner oils also help engine cooling because a) they're not consuming excess energy getting pushed through the system, and b) they flow a bit faster, so they convect more heat. The other side of "thin is good" is that "too thin doesn't have enough film strength."

Not that I'm an expert, but if I lived in a hot climate and was worried about the oil being thinned out excessively, I'd go to a synthetic oil rather than a higher viscosity. Synthetics have higher film strength, so you get the protection and also the free flowing.

Amusingly, when synthetics first came out some auto makers considered them to void the warranty. That was because, even though they provided the same (or better) film strength and protection, they were a lower viscosity rating than the manual specified. They also lasted longer, which violated the oil change interval requirements.

Ken

Well, my mom's 06 Tribute takes 5W-20. Supposedly all newer vehicles are switching to this (recently read an article about this) across the various brands which at this time is supposed to include all Honda and Ford vehicles as well as numerous models of other brands. Somewhere in the article it said that the difference between using 5W-20 versus 5W-30 was somewhere around 0.1 mpg increase in real world driving conditions, although produced higher in their mileage tests, which helps car companies meet CAFE a little easier. The article went on to say that 5W-20 wasn't really better because if you get particles in your oil it isn't necessarily thick enough to suspend the particles and keep them from rubbing on the parts. Then again, they also said that the difference in viscosity between 5W-20 and 5W-30 was nearly imperceptible they were so close. It seemed the impression of the article was to NOT use 5W-20 in your vehicles and go for something thicker. :dunno:

I'm not particularly well educated on such things so I have no idea whether this article was a load of BS or what exactly, but that was what was reported. I will have to see if I can remember where I had seen this.

you can use 20-50

Erick -

I'm using 10w-40 synthetic these days. Higher engine vacuum due to better sealing is the result. Gas mileage is the same.
I've only used synthetic since the second oil change at 5k miles. (I'm up to 45k or so.)

I am sure we don't need to start another syn vs. dino thread, but your car is Turbo'ed MM, and I have no problem going syn in my N/A with some positive input...


gonna be buying the lube this weekend.... Is it going to be ok to change my oil to syn even though there is still gonna be 3 quarts of dino floatin around in there? Can't imagine there is too many concerns, but just wanted your opinions...

thnx

-C

Its OK to mix.

I am surprised, given the hot temperatures in southern states, that you guys can get away with 5w-20 for general use.

In Europe, where temperatures don't really get that hot for that long, the recommended oil from Mazda is 5w-30 or even 10w-30 in some hotter parts (like south Italy). It makes sense to me that if you live in South Florida you want 10w-30.

In Spain Mazda puts 5W30, even in places where it's very hot in summer like Madrid or Seville where you can easily hit 107F (42C) in august.

Mobil makes a grade od synthetic that is 5w-50. I can't find it anywhere, but if I do, I'm going to try it.
It is the OEM recommended oil for some Porsche vehicles.

ding ding ding ding ding ding- and lower vacuum means not so good sealing. itd be good if thre was a way everyone could get a vacuum check. especially those folk in the areas like vegas where they are seeing so many engien replacements. maybe the upcoming recall will include one.