clutchless shifting?
 

Does anyone shift into neutral w/out using the clutch? I do it alot when I'm slowing down and don't need to down shift. I figure a few less clutch presses everyday will add up to a longer clutch life over a few years.

With my GSL-SE I could shift up the gear box without using the clutch. There is a certain speed at which you can shift into every gear w/out stepping on the clutch w/ the execption of 1st and reverse.

I only figured it out after a few years of driving my RX-7 but I don't think I'll be trying it with the 8, at least not in the first year or two. But I do use the shifting into neutral technique w/out clutch as part of my everyday driving...it's just a natural habit I developed over the 8 years I drove MT cars back in the 80s.

You can go up and down through the gears without the clutch at all, you just need to match the revs of the engine for whatever road speed and gear you are in (coming out of gear) or going to be in as you go through neutral.

If you do it properly you wont wear the clutch or the syncro's out.

Reasonable easy in the '8 - it has a nice 'box.

Cheers,
Hymee.

PS - I think the '8 has triple synchros on 1st, so it shouldn't be too hard to clutchless downshift into first, and don't they have a syncro on reverse as well?

Talking about the M6 here.

For the amount of wear and tear on the clutch you are saving you are going to trash that transmission faster because you will never engage the gears perfectly all the time. IMO I'd rather change a clutch then a tranny anyday.

To shift into neutral clutchless on the 8 I NEVER grind any gears...it's like butter.

Oh Yeah - I agree 100%. I was just saying it is possible.

But, if you do do it perfectly, there will be zero wear.

As a matter of fact, ALL of the gears are ALWAYS in constant mesh anyway. It is only the syncho cones and baulk rings that wear out.

There is a great article on howstuffworks:

http://auto.howstuffworks.com/transmission3.htm

Cheers,
Hymee.

That is a good link. For the real novices, start here..

What do you guys think about braking vs. downshifting to slow down? Is there any wear on the tranny when downshifting? From a gas milage perspective which seems to be a big concern for many 8 owners, shifting into neutral and braking would definitely yield better MPG then downshifting as a means of slowing down.

I would like to video a crunchless, clutchless acceleration up through the gears, then back down again.

And if anyone is familiar with the V8 Supercar racing in Australia, they mostly do a clutchless up-shift. Figgin awesome to watch on "pedal cam". 610HP 4 door sedans, 6 speed manuals - 5.0 litre Chevs v's 5.0 litre Fords. www.v8supercar.com.au

Cheers,
Hymee

When I forst got the car I remembered back to my old Sentra that I could drive all day without a clutch ( a necesity sometimes). I practiced shifting and rev matching for weeks and got it pretty down pat. I never use the clutch to pull it out of gear, and always have my foot ready in case I need to put it in gear in a hurry. I can shift up or down without it, but it is especially easy at higher revs (over 5K).

Just remember your RPM speed per gear and it's a cinch.

I use my brakes more than the engine for stopping. If your doing mountain driving, sure, protect the brakes a little, but I'd rather replace brake pads than something bigger and heavier and harder to afford :D

There's a few heated threads on this. Search for "Transmission Braking" or "Engine Braking" (or, alternatively "Engine Breaking" which gives me cause for concern.) :(

And don't assume braking in neutral saves gas; I saw a good comment to the contrary. The theory being, if you're coasting then the engine is idling and burning fuel. If you're compression braking (as I was raised to call it), the ECU logic cuts out fuel to the engine to avoid timing problems, and you consume no fuel at all. Interesting thought. I used to coast extensively in many situations, but more and more teaching myself to keep in it gear to decelerate. It takes effort to retrain oneself, but I'm getting there.

I was the same way when I had previous MT cars, I'd coast and brake a lot more than downshift. With the 8 I'm downshifting more often but use coasting when I know that I'm going slow enough already and will only have to use minimal brake pressure to stop....like in city driving between traffic lights when I can see the one ahead is turning yellow already.

To clarify, I don't downshift. I keep it in whatever gear I was in, let off the gas and clutch and let the drivetrain slow me down. I'll do this down to about 2000 rpms. Some on this forum thought that wasn't technically transmission braking since it doesn't involve a downshift. The general opinion of those most knowledgeable of auto mechanics seemed to be this is the preferred method of slowing. It was far from unanimous and, as I said early, led to some heated debates. It's worth searching for without rehashing it all again in this thread.

i only downshift to 3rd, i find that i am usually pretty much to slow roll by the time i let the car wind down so i just brake from there, but at the same time i am usually not in a big hurry to try and do a 65-0 stop in less than 10 feet like most of the people in this town.

Download the Best Motoring review of the RX-8 where the dude does a lap of Laguna Seca.......... watch his braking technique.... heel-toe rocks! :)

Happy holidays... Here are my copy of the videos.

BM_Intro.avi
BM_CaliforniaDrive.avi
BM_CaliforniaDrive.avi
BM_LagunaSeca.avi
BM_TimeAttack.avi

btw, I find the RX-8 one of the easiest cars to heel and toe with. It's almost as if the electronic throttle knows my intentions and blips the throttle up quite high for what feels like a quarter open throttle.

I don't know how to do heel-and-toe or even why, but I will study your videos and maybe figure it out. But I can totally relate to your comment about the '8 being so easy. Perhaps this is a general observation of stick vs auto, but with auto it senses what you're trying to do, then adjusts to your needs after the fact (you can feel it downshift after the need for torque is evident.) With stick, it knows what you're gonna do before you do it and is ready with the torque before you need it, not after. It is a very good feeling, and I miss it anytime I get stuck driving auto. And this is from a guy who drove A/T the last 20 years.

What codec do the videos use? I am unable to view them with either RealPlayer or Windows Media Player. I get sound but no video.

Don't forget that those gearboxs are probably "dog boxes" and don't need the clutch to shift as they are designed that way.

So granted you can do clutchless shifting, why would you do clutchless shifting? What's the upside?

Oh - yeah, they are those type. Still awesome to watch. Very fast changes.

Cheers,
Hymee.

On the subject of shifting, does anyone use 5th gear? In the normal course, it seems unnecessary, at for the way I drive. If in traffic, to save gas, I'll go 1-2-6. If on the hwy cruising at 65, drop to 3 to accelerate past the Buick. On the Interstate, cruising at 75-80, 4th gear is where I go to get a thrill...it's to 125+/-, then back to 6th. Not trying to demonstrate any thing here, except that a 5speed, with an overdrive 5th gear would seem to be sufficient????

Not a real lot in practical terms. If you do it perfectly every time there is no wear on the syncros.

I don't drive like that... But I did have a clutch acutator fail in the past, and it was handy to know how to still drive around to get it home for a repair. I was 40km away from home when it happened on my first car when I was a teenager.

Cheers,
Hymee.

DivX. Select the "Standard DiovX Codec(FREE)" link. One can also use xvid to do this as well.

I use 5th to cut through traffic and going up inclines. I use 4th or 3rd gear to pass. For 5th gear seems to be a happy middle between having some power on tap and not attracting too much attention with the exhaust note.