Bose Audio Pilot System - interestng link
 

Hi everyone:

I was looking on the Bose web site about a pro-sound item, when I saw the link to their automotive solutions area. In there, they have an interesting thing about Audio Pilot - not sure if it will change your mind about it, but considering mine has been turned off since two days after I bought the car last July, after looking at this, I'm going to go turn it back on and see if I can find newfound appreciation for it. It's much more than an automatic volume compensator device. It actually works to boost different frequencies in response to changes in background noise in the same frequency range so the music stays "above" the noise.

Anyway, enjoy. I found it interesting.

RX-8 AudioPilot explanation from BOSE

Interesting link...thanks Stew.

I wonder how it reacts to aftermarket additions like a sub or tweeters?

That's actually one of Bose's key technologies, negative noise. I was very curious to see how well it worked when I got my 8. I think that they could have done a much better job. Properly implemented, the Audiopilot should have been able to do things like eliminate road noise, wind noise etc. The way that they implemented it is really just an updated version of their active equalization with feedback.

Years ago when Infinity just came out with the Q45 the cars were amazingly, eerily quiet. What did Infinity do that the other luxury brands somehow couldn't do? They had the stereo system generating negative noise. You could turn it off. When it was off, the car sounded like any other low to medium quality luxury car.

I wish that Bose would have provided user controls on the audiopilot. It would be nice on a long drive to turn down the tire noise.

OK, I'm up for more testing now that I have read that - good find.

Bose is actually respected for their noise cancellation technologies. Not sure how good the RX8 system is, but it is my understanding they have military contracts in aircraft for this very thing.

actually I think they HAD a mililtary contract for noise cancelling headphones for pilots...but lost the contract when pilots complained that the system was not good enough. I could be wrong about this tho'
:)

Bose noise cancellation in Iraq:

http://www.dean.usma.edu/bsl/news/ma...l+Headsets.pdf

looks interesting. the car i have now has speed compensated volume, so it gets louder the faster you go. cant wait to compare the 2 :)

Edit:

Tehy even have a write-up about the RX-8 on that BOSE site:

The Bose® sound system for the Mazda RX-8

Presenting the world's only four-door, four-seat sports car. This one-of-a-kind automobile has a sound system that's just as unique. It was created using a different approach to engineering automotive sound. We measured even the smallest acoustical detail that can affect performance. As a result, the system is tuned differently for an RX-8 with leather upholstery than for an RX-8 with cloth upholstery. You hear music that is sharp in detail and rich in emotion. And patented AudioPilot® noise compensation technology automatically reduces the effects of changing road surfaces and other outside noise.

Yeah that write up sounds like the Bose system would actually be good, eh? ;)

Well, I bought my 8 a week ago. Right away I was hating the Bose system. I played a little bit with it, and found out that the annoying mid frequencies eco was comming from the tweeters. So this past weekend I change the front tweeters, and :eek: what a f.... difference. Now it sound so much better.

I used Boss tweeter TW-15, is very inexpensive (~$15) and can be install to look as the oem Bose.

tell us more!

Feh. They may have good intentions, and the Blose system in the 8 ain't half as bad as others Blose I've heared, but it still sounds like it has a wet blanket over the speakers.

It lacks the crisp transients and overall clarity and transparency (particularly in the midrange!) of a fine, fine hi-fi. Bose still doesn't get it. Polite sound just doesn't cut it, music isn't polite! Bose sound is very polite, as to not to offend ears..

At least the 8's Blose is relatively flat from bottom to top, and sounds fairly OK with the EQ set flat and audiopilot set off. It's miles ahead of what my Miata had. ;)

Oh how I wish Klipsch would engineer car audio, now that they have Aragon in their arsenal to provide amplification.

Klipsch + vacuum tubes + naturally-occuring mood enhancers == aural ecstasy :D

Hrm... the trunk in the 8 is big 'nuff to hold a Milbert Audio 6BQ5-based tube amp.. but there are no car horn-loaded speakers I know of, so.. back to Blose :(

Oh, and as far as aviation.. Uncle Sam said thanks but no thanks. Any aviator worth his/her salt will tell you, there's only one headset, and it's made by David-Clarke. :D

would it be possible that we're listening to the wrong sounds or do we just expect more from bose?

I have a pair of Bose Quiet Comfort II headphones and all I can say is that these things are all that and a buck of chicken. I fly for business at least 3 days every week and these things changed my life.

I got those...against my better judgement. I've always hated bose...but I was hanging out with a friend at a bose store who was looking at that bose ipod mount...and for some strange reason I made an impulse purchase and got those headphones. They sound decent (they better at $300!!), but the longer I have them the more pissed off I am about getting them. I just heard my other friends in ear headphones that he got for 150 (forgot the brand, I'll ask him next time I see him) and they sound BETTER then these monsters and even the noise cancelation worked better (although I didn't go on the train with it like I do with the bose everyday)...for half the price!

And whats up with these things not working without a battery? What a crappy design...they should still play music when the battery is dead, just stop noise cancelling.

On a bright side...the plastic on mine cracked last month and I took it back with no receipt or box or anything...they couldn't even find the receipt in their computer, but took it back anyway and gave me a whole new set, box and everything. Maybe it goes to show how cheap it costs for them to make these...ahh the benefits of 500% profit per set I guess. :)

/rant

The new Acura RL has the "Active Noise Cancellation" system you speak of.

http://www.acura.com/models/model_co....asp?module=rl

While that would 100% suit the average buyer of the RL, I would think it would not be appreciated nearly as much in a sports car.

As far as Bose sound quality goes, we used to always say: "No highs, no lows - must be Bose" :)

Dennis

BOSE IS THE DEVIL! :mad: :mad: :mad:

Nonetheless, the most favorite speakers I ever owned were my original Bose 901s. I'm still kicking myself that I sold the things. Those things completely rocked - active equalization, positively thunderous sound into every corner of the room and seemingly unlimited power handling.

Yeah, the 901s were great. For such a relatively small speaker, they really sounded BIG. Sure, there's better stuff if you want precise stereo imaging, but they kicked butt on power/weight ratio.

Ha..."kicked butt on power/weight ratio"...bose marketing at it's finest. :)

You'd make the author of the following link proud!:

http://www.intellexual.net/bose.html#alternatives

Not a Bose supporter, but this seems to be headed down the dreaded road of a "Bose Sucks" thread, of which there are too many to number.
:mad:

Well, I try to see the bright side and overlook the lack of low-end torque. Wait, what were we talking about?:)

well it's a "bose" thread...there's only so much you can say about a bose audipilot system without talking about bose themselves...

We're talkinga bout why the audiopilot system is garbage...it's because bose is garbage, why is bose garbage...have they done anything well, how did such a pathetic system get into my amazing car...it's all just natural progression of the topic...:)

What would you like us to talk about in this bose thread then? Trunk space?

The Bose amp and rear drivers take up very little trunk space. Can't deny that. :)

LOL true...they provide very good power/size ratio (too bad SQ is not in the eqation). ;)

wait wait- the Q had a negative noise system???? I drove a 92 Q for years and I will say it had the best damn sound in any car I've ever been in (without crazy aftermarket audio, that is) But I never really noticed that sound compensation you're talking about....and I would say the wind noise was "moderate" but that was in a 13 year old car, so the door seals and stuff were probably on the way out. Even so my question is- are you sure about this? I did just sell the Q so it doesn't matter to me too much, but I am very interested....

Also about the audiopilot system- I think it does a fair job of altering frequencies, but not volumes in general: I wish it would up the overall volumes much more so that when i'm stopped at a light it's at a normal volume, but if I then drive with the windows down and sunroof open, it increases it enough to be heard well.....it simply doesn't do that. ;( But let me know anything you know about the Q....i did love that car....

I can't argue with any of your points, Bose is garbage of which I'd never allow in my home. However, for a car in which I like to listen to the engine, I don't really see this as a major issue. Have you replaced your "garbage" system or are you living with it because there are a great many other modifications that are far more worthwhile?

I'm living with it because there are other modifications which are more worthwhile. :)

It's funny...but up until I got the 8 I used to have music up pretty loud all the time in my car (in which I actually had a GOOD system)...in the 8 tho' I do like listening to the engine, so I find myself either listening to music real low or not at all. Now I don't know if that's because the system sucks, or because I really want to hear the engine. Probably a combination of the two...:)

My feelings on Bose:
If they sold at low prices, or didn't hype crazy engineering promises that didn't deliver the magic, I'd have no problem with them. All the clever engineering tricks in the world don't matter if, in the end, you're left with a system that sounds "factory" but sells for a "premium upgrade" price. It doesn't disappoint me to the point that I'd rip it out, as I don't think of my car as a high-end listening environment anyway, but I wouldn't have sprung for it if it hadn't already been part of the package in my '04 deal.

Slightly off-topic aside:
I followed Niro's link to that great dissection of Bose's home-theater-satellite-cube system, which is one of the more overpriced items of any kind on any market today. :) Anyway, following links from that site eventually wound up on an early '70s review of the 901 speakers. One aspect of them that the reviewer actually liked was that they softened the harshness of the (then relatively new and unrefined) solid-state amplifiers. So "no highs" used to be a good thing, apparently! Plus he liked the fact that they had a BIG soundstage.

What's my point? Audio quality is subjective and taste-dependent, and we've come a long way from enjoying the warm sound of old tube amps, to now wanting totally flat frequency response with well-defined highs and bass all the way down past 20Hz. Value is less subjective, though, and I can't justify lots of extra cost for little extra perfomance.

tell me someone please is it possible to connect Monitor to our factory Head Unit ? :) I have without DVD HeadUnit. Send me private message please :) thanks , Illia

Actually, the topic is the interesting link on Bose's website on how the AudioPilot system is supposed to work.

I personally don't think Bose sucks at all - they make high-quality, very bullet-proof audio gear for a variety of applications including car audio, home audio, pro sound and others. I own a number of other Bose items including the Acoustic Wave radio, the Quiet Comfort headphones, an old AM5 surround sound setup that I bought on eBay for only $150 (and at that price it's awesome. Not so good at $1500) and others. I agree that much of their stuff is over priced, but hey, they make good stuff that works well.

And whoever said "sound is in the perception" or something like that above couldn't be more correct in the assessment. It's all about what sounds good to you. I happen to think the sound system in my RX-8 is terrific. The one improvement I'd make to it is to add the Bose subwoofer that my 2001 Acura TL had mounted on the rear package shelf. That really added some bottom to the music without the god awful THUMP THUMP THUMP shit that the idiots with the boom cars think sounds good.

You simply must be joking. There is a reason Bose doesn't publish frequency response charts on their gear--because it's appalling. And what "pro sound" gear do you think Bose does worth a damn? Show me one professional recording studio with Bose gear. You can't, because no professional would touch them.

No, good sound is NOT perception. When someone runs an audio analyzer on Bose output, that scientific fact showing you just how nasty Bose is.

BTW, I work in the AV industry.

Hi.:)

"Good sound quality" depends on:
1) source recording
2) reproduction of the recorded signal
3) amplification
4) speakers
---------------------
5) listening room
6) your ears
7) your brain

Audio analyzers apply to everything above the line. You can analyze a listening room from specific positions, but most of us don't sit dead still listening to music. If your living room is an anechoic chamber, I guess you can disregard this.

Steps 6 and 7 do involve perception, I'm pretty sure. :) More to the point, it's possible (and it does happen) that nonlinear audio gear, combined with the nonlinear response of the listening space and the listener, can sound good. It may not be the objective Platonic ideal of sound, but someone will enjoy it.

And to the point about value, the AM5 is an excellent $150 system.:D

Well gang, last time I checked I listen WITH MY EARS not an audio analyzer, my 43-year-old, likely somewhat deaf, ears. And I could give a rat's ass whether my AM5 system can hit 20,000 Hz because I cannot hear above 15,000, per a recent audiogist's exam. So what's the point of it?

I own a Bose pro-sound PA system for my band that's derivative of the old 901 system - and it sounds awesome - fills the clubs we play in beautifully. And everyone talks about how clear we sound and how easy it is to hear.

I don't work in a studio. I don't care what they use. I've never had anything from Bose blow up or break on my watch.

Sorry you don't like it. Don't shit on me for liking it. It's subjective. The only piece of audio analysis I care about equipment is mounted on and in my head.

That's like saying "The RX-8 is shit because ..." and spout all the numbers crap about it, when you've never driven the car and haven't experienced how the car transcends the numbers.

I think Bose gear transcends the numbers. If you don't like it, feel free to buy something else.

Here's the problem with your argument. Bose sounds ACCEPTABLE to most people because most people have never truely heard a high end sound system. Bose markets and PRICES themselves as a high end sound system, when in fact they're no better (actually definetly worse) then the polk audio system I set up for my parents...costing half the price of the bose system.

When people hear a true high end system...and I'm not talking about a 10k one, just a good one costing the same as a bose from best buy...it will blow you away, that's when you realize how much bose really sucks. Ofcourse everything is perception...if someone who's never driven anything but a 1980 civic gets into an rx8, they'll think it's the best and faster thing in theh world...get in a porsche and that rx8 suddenly isn't so hot. The problem with bose is that it's an rx8 (yea I'm being nice here) priced the same as that porsche...now if you bought the rx8 at the porsche price you're a pretty dumb &*#$...that's what you're doing when you're buying bose instead of say...paradigm.

Set up a good high end audio system for the same price as that bose, and listen to them both. You'll instantly hear what you're missing from the bose setup. It's not only scientifically measurable by an audio device...you can HEAR the difference. It's really amazing what a good sound system can do...people just settle for "good enough"...not knowing what they're really missing.

as far asa the title of the thread...the audiopilot system is no different...it's a piece of bose garbage. You read about it, and it sounds amazing what it can do on paper, unfortunately it doesn't live up to its claims, not even close. It says that it'll compensate tone basaed on noise entering the cabin...it specifically says it'll up the vocals when you open the window to make them audible. Have you tried that? I opened the windows and the only thing I heard was a little more base, I couldn't even tell if there were vocals at all. The only thing that the system in this car is qualified to play is talk radio.

Well, I guess I'll throw in my .02....

I've had Bose home speakers for years and have LOVED them from day one. I realize speaker sound is pretty subjective, as everyone has their own idea of what great sound is (I personally like to feel the bass and Bose has always delivered). As far as the Audio Pilot...it's a piece of crap. Why oh why would anyone want the sound to come out like you are underwater???? This happens more often than I care to think about. That little simulation on their site forgot to put that visual in.

I haven't found any user controls, cuz I'd like to think I've just got it adjusted wrong...am I missing something?

Sadly, 'tis true.

I dont get it.. what do you guys have against Bose? no its not for "audiophiles" per say, but what the hell else do you want for a stock radio option from the dealer? Yes I know that it pales in comparison to an aftermarket set up but really now guys... you should know better when buying a player option from the dealer... you WILL be gouged and the quality (more often than not) wont quite be what you expect.

example... the Shaker 1000 option for the Mustang GT here in Canada is 1900.00... you know what that gives you? TWO TENS.... for 1900 quid i can buy a wicked kick ass deck, a pair of subs, tweeters, amps and have it installed.

As previously feared, this thread has degenerated into a Bose-Basher. Although citing Polk as being better is again subjective. Now the Paradigm, there you have an argument. ;)

How about a standard DIN sized radio with an internal amp (none of this amp in speaker nonsense) so that you could easily upgrade the speakers and/or the head unit?

If you are going to make it hard to replace, then spend the bucks and make it Lexus "Mark Levinson" or something - just not Bose. Ford made those stupid oval radio plates but the after-market responded with kits to allow you to use a standard DIN sized radio in them. I am afraid the 8 is so low volume that they will never make much to help us out.

Dennis

I'll probably get bashed by the Bose haters, but I have the noise-cancellation headphones, and think they are great. I travel twice a month and use these on planes. I had to set my volume at 18 with conventional headphones in order to hear music. I set these at 3, and the soiund is crystal clear.

I am disappointed with the AudioPIlot feature in the 8. Either mine does not work, or the technology does not work. I need to turn my volume up at higher speeds or when the windows are open. It does not appear to adjusted anything for me (and it is indeed ON).

So, just like any company, there may be good products and bad products; and just like any product, one person's idea of good is another's idea of bad. Some of think the 8 is a great car, and some do not. Some people will never even look at one. Some people like Pontiac Aztecs, and others don't want to see them.

We are all entitled to our own opinions, and hopefully, even when others' opinions are different from our own, we can respect them and the person who gave them. Be nice.

Honestly the bose premium system in the 8 is really pathetic, even the mids sound like crap. The premium system in my eclipse and Senta is far better and in both cases we are talking significantly lower priced cars.

Saying bose makes pro audio gear is funny too. Nobody really cares much about good sound quality out of a PA system in the first place, just needs to be loud. If you went into a studio with anything bose (including their headphones) you would be laughed out. If you went into a home bedroom studio with bose you would be laughed at.

The reality is that the bose system in the 8, and all bose systems, are really for marketting towards dumb consumers that fall for bose marketing. That's what the audiopilot feature is too, marketing.

I mean really, their new wave radio add claims it reproduces half an octave lower sound than any other system, what a complete lie and bunch of crap that statement is. If you know anything about sound you know that is a lie but there are consumers who are dumb enough to believe it.

For that matter, how about a head unit that doesn't also run the A/C display. At least Mazda didn't build the radio into the PCM, so maybe we should count our blessings.:p

Seriously, I'd have no problem either with Mazda's radio choices if it were easier to upgrade them myself. As it is, I'd have to work with custom plastic trim, brackets, and who knows what else, and still leave the old head unit in if I want to see my vent settings.

On some GM cars if you remove the OEM stereo the air bags may fail to deploy (or is they just fire at any time?). Anyway, that would hurl worse, I guess.

The new Accords have a/c controls and the stereo together, but Accords sell in enough volume that there is an aftermarket kit to replace the controls and mount a DIN stereo.

Dennis

Where can i find new front speakers? the size is 8" for the bose system and 6x9 with the standard system, i have the bose and i cannot find that size speaker. any suggestions?:dunno:

Man, you just bumped a 7 1/2 year old thread!!!

They're 9" and you can't.

Try going to the top stickie in the Audio section of the site.

It explains most everything.

https://www.rx8club.com/interior-aud...-first-226065/