3-series BimmerGuy: will I be happy with an RX8?
 

I'm a BMW kind of guy. I've spent the last 5 years with an e46 328i sedan with sport package/5 speed manual. Unfortunately, I was forced to swap cars with my soon-to-be ex-wife a few months ago. She took the (paid for) 3-series, I ended up with the X5 monster that was purchased for her.

I've owned several rotary-powered cars. In the early 70s I had an RX-2 that I would take into the Rockies from Denver. Great in the summer; I'd pass almost everything on the way up to the Eisenhower Tunnel and cruising over Vail Pass. I returned to the Wankel with a '79 RX7, which eventually I ruined by hanging an aftermarket turbo on it. Later I had an 87 RX7 Turbo, and I ALMOST bought a '93 TT, but held off because of reliabilty concerns.

I've just driven an RX8 (OK, I've driven RX8s at THREE different dealerships). I can get a new 2004 with the Grand Touriing package for as much as $9K off MSRP, but the brand new 3-series shows up in a month, and I'm not certain I'll be happy.

I loved the neutral handling of the RX8 and the engine note as it revs towards the buzzer, but it takes a while to get up to the revs where it makes power, unlike the more torquey BMW straight six.

Any BMW alums here? How do you feel one or two years in about the fit/finish of your car as compared with your Bimmer(s)?

i work on bimmers and i'll tell you that i'd rather have my rx8 than a bimmer. unless it's an E39 M5 or E46 M3 :D the 8 is way more nimble around turns than the E46. it's a lot more simplified than the bimmer (i could list a lot of the problems i get if you're interested). cheaper to maintain once it is out of warranty. can't think of anymore right now, sorry

the new E90 3 series is probably going to be as bad as the new E60 5 series and E65 7 series. since bimmer is all going over to the new i-Drive system, there are going to be a lot more programming issues. what else...oh yea, the new magnesium block = expensive parts and maintenance once again.

Good questions and answers-new 3 series certainly will be a wonderful car. I think you'd get better input if you posted this in the RX-8 Discussion forum. Good luck whatever way you go.

Yeah it should be moved over to the main discussion page--me personally I would get the RX8 for its uniqueness alone over the BMW--there are so many 3 series out there. If you get the 6spd you will have a car that is more fun to drive than the BMW. While I like the 3 series and they are nice I think that they are overpriced--my vote is for RX8 (big surprise).

Tuff one. I spent 5 years with a BMW 328is coupe then bought a car I did not like as well and then traded it for the 8. I have fond memories of the bimmer. I did have trouble with it though right out of warranty.

The 8 is a great car and very different for sure. Take a test drive and consider this, are you happy with the ride, materials inside, noise factor, etc? It was a toss up for me between the G35 coupe and the 8. I also liked the S2000 but it was small. Probably you will want to compare the drive of the G35 and the 8. - both excellent choices. My plan is 2 more years with the 8 and then I will reconsider all over again. I looked at BMW's with a family member last weekend and the prices were through the roof. I could not believe the stickers. $55K for a 3.0 Z4, $37K for a 325i! The 325 and the 3X thing were the only cars on the lot in the 30's. Maybe I'm cheap but $40K proximity to me has to be one special car. The 8 is quite a looker for its $$$ range. IF it had a tad more juice it would be up there too!

YEah $40K to spend I'd get a used M3, C5 vette, or maybe 996 Porsche. I refuse to spend that much on an 'ordinary' vehicle.

maybe it's because i deal with bimmers daily. but there really isn't anything special about them. seems like Lexus makes better cars...

I had an 91 M3 and i still love my baby. It actually feels a lot like the 8. The seats hug the same way, clutch, everything is basically identical. I was very happy with my chaneg, but i got to keep the BMW too so i get the best of both worlds :)

Just do drive one...that should tell you your answer.

when i test drove my 8, i didn't really push it...i didn't get a good feel of it until AFTER it was off the lot.

I had a 2001 330i that I traded in for the RX8 and I haven't missed it one bit. I also have a 2004 325 convertible that now feels like driving an SUV compared to the RX8.

If you are looking for a driver's car (with a manual transmission) than get the RX8.

If you want more status and luxury get the E90. If you were going for the E90, I'd wait for an E90 coupe to come out but that is still 2 years away. I really don't think the E90 sedan looks very good.

I still like BMWs but I like to drive in autocrosses and I'm starting some track work so I chose the Rx8. I chose the RX8 over the E46 M3, and the RX8 was 1/2 the price...

Like Morgan, I drove a early 90's M3 for a bit. Lovely car but I love the 8 more. For some reason the 8 makes you feel like you have more control (perhaps it's the handling and transmission). Regardless of your choice, great vehicles either way.

I'll touch upon the last part of your question, as no one really has yet... With regard to "how happy will I be with fit/finish down the line?": I've owned probably 12 or 15 cars, all across the board, 81' Camaro > 00' S4. After 1-2 yrs, you'll be so accustomed to it, you won't miss any disparity in fit/finish. My last couple cars were German (most recently the S4), those cars will spoil you in that regard. But there's always a tradeoff $-wise... For $25k or so, you can get a great-performing, very well built RX8. I'll admit, I found the quality of materials inside was definitely NOT at a BMW / Audi level, but what will they give you for even low $30's? A 184hp 325i or 180hp A4 (read SLOOOOW!). To approach RX8 performance you have to go near $40k to a 330ci or V6 Audi. Then you have cost of ownership. Mazda, very affordable, seems to be very reliable so far. Germans... Pricey service and lots of "glitchy" problems. It's easy to understand why their lease is so popular, as well as them adding full service for the duration, recently. I wouldn't want one out of warranty either! I had a couple "wallet-emptying" problems that caused me to unload the S4. I had bought it from a smart person; sold it just as the warranty expired. In closing, the German cars ARE nice, just be prepared for a much greater overall cost-of-ownership for the same level of performance as a japanese car. But then if you MUST keep up with the Joneses... (funny, I think 95% of the people driving those cars don't exploit 50% of the performance they paid for). Don't get me started there... Sorry for the length... Enjoy WHATEVER you buy!

The e46 engine is far better than an r8x engine. The rx8 chassis is very nice. I would agree that the RX* interior is superb for the price, but the engine is a dilemna.

Get the 8 and put in a ms flywheel. :) It will spool up better. :D

funny, I just posted several days ago about getting rid of my 04 M3 for the 8. I have lost the love for the m3. It is a great car but you ride up high from the ground and the m gives you a very very ruff ride. The 8 on the other hand is smooth. Of course the torque is lacking but that is what the 9000 rpm line is about. People always mention the cost of service on BMW's but do not realize that the cars have a five year warranty and everything is included right down to the brake pads. No charge for anything and loaner cars when your car is in for service. That is the part I will miss the most So the maintenance cost factor is not an issue. I am going to think this over a month or two more but can say I will soon have the 8 and proud of it.

tiga--its that after warranty maintenance on BMWs that stangs the pocket. Also--welcome to the club.

I drove my friends E46 M3 last night. I definitely prefer my RX8. The RX8 feels much more precise, the E46 M3 feels clumsy. I actually prefer driving the 350Z over the M3 but I prefer the RX8 over both.

I've never driven the E30 M3 but I think I would like it much better than the E46. I prefer to the E36 M3 to the E46 M3 for sure.

I had a 3-series bmw with an M3 engine for 5 years . I got the 8 right after it and love the choice I made.

I bought my RX-8 after two years driving a manual tranny 2002 325xiT (which is now my wife's). I've also driven a bunch of ///M and non ///M E46 variants over the past four years in traffic and in autocrosses.

On an autocross course, the RX-8 is the clear, hands down winner over any E46 (///M or not) within Stock class prep limits. A well prepped Street Prepared class M3 may be able to beat a mildly prepped Stock class RX-8, but it's a lot closer than many might think.

The E46 and the RX-8 are focused on different tasks or aspects of driving and what makes each one good in its focus area is what makes it not so great in the other. The E46 is heavy, isolated, stable feeling, more cushy, has more creature comforts and is thus more comfortable and pleasant to tool around in the daily grind of commuting and errand running in a congested metro area, but not so much fun to push to its limits on an autocross course. All of that extra weight, strut suspension design up front, numb road feel and less than direct steering make it feel like it is lumbering around trying to find its way. To do well with the E46, you have to drive around its weaknesses. It's certainly not a slow car around an autocross course (and has been putting together quite a nice winning history in D Stock the past few years), but it's not a whole lot of fun to use.

The RX-8 is light and direct with great feel at the cost of being somewhat spartan (comparing base to base or loaded to loaded versions), overwhleming in tactile sensations and being somewhat nervous in comaprison when being used as a regular car. Those are all great things that make the car a lot of fun to toss around on an autocross course, but they make it a bit less enjoyable in traffic.

I expect the E90 to be similar to the E46 in this context, but even moreso, with stronger engines. They'll still have those insipid open differentials with ADB (at least the non M versions) too.

Ex-3'er chimes in...
 

I really miss the straight six. It has a more complex, choral snarl than the Renesis. I'm a gearhead, and at the ripe old age of 41 I've pretty much figured out the the best all-around, elegant engine that is realistically affordable to most is the straight six. It's perfectly balanced, and therefore smooth, generally has a broad and relatively even torque curve, and makes the best sound short of a V-12, which, ironically, is two straight sixes running on a common crank.

The rotary is a elegantly simple engine that has only three moving parts. But three moving parts don't translate into a rich sounding engine. I like the rotary's sound but I don't love it. My RX-8 is my second RX. My first was a '84 13B GSL-SE which was my first car. What I think the rotary does best sound-wise is run up thru the gears. On the other hand, the BMW's straight six sounds ungodly cool at mid revs, say from 3200 to 4000rpms. It's also, in my opinion, smoother than the Renesis, especially at high revs. Don't get me wrong, the rotaries are pretty smooth, especially if you're coming from my two most hated engine architectures, inline 4's and V-6's...yuck.

Car wise, I think the German experience is most rewarding. Build quality, chassis tuning, interior design, no contest. And, German cars develop a very classy patina as they age. Who wants a 40 year old Japanese car? I'd love a late 60's Mercedes 280SE 3.5 sedan or a mint 3.2 liter late 90's M3. Or, a late 80's 911 Carrera 3.2. Yes, German cars can cost more to run over time. I won't argue that.

A 3 series will also be much more space efficient. I once had to spend 3 months in another city for work. I stuffed an iMac, road bike, bike gear bag, body bag-sized duffle, two smaller soft bags, courier bag, espresso machine, and a bunch of other small bags full of stuff into my 325. I can barely fit a road bike, wheels, and bike bag in the 8. The 8 is really just for soft bags, 4 big ones will fit but you get killed with any thing else because the trunk opening is very small and the rear seats don't fold down.
The 8 is very practical - for a sports car. It can't compete with a sports sedan for practicality.

Personally, In need a few more inches room to the right of my right foot. If I'm off cruise control, say spending a few hours on a fun run or in the mountains, doing a lot of heel and toe'ing and very precise throttle control, my right lower leg gets sore because my right leg wants to be positioned and pointing just little more to the right. As it is, the 8 has my right leg pointing almost straight ahead instead of canted slightly to the right, which is a more natural oreintation.

The trans/engine tunnel is taking up room that my foot and leg needs. If they could have scalloped out an inch or two for my right foot and outside of my right leg this would not be an issue. The Bimmer has more room there. I also find that the car gets HOT inside during the summer. The AC works well but I have to use it once the outside temps get into the 70's. The car is smooth and quiet for a sports car; not as quiet as the Bimmer. But, I think a lot of the noise is road noise from the sucky OE tires. I'll be replacing mine soon with something quieter.

The 3 series kills the 8 in gas mileage. My '94 325 got 24mpg in town and 28 on the highway - at 80mph cruise. The 3 gets 30mpg if you stay close to 75mph. My 8 gets 14-17mpg in town and 19 to 22mpg on the highway. My gas costs have gone way up with the 8. But, my once out of warranty I expect my maintenance costs will go down. The 8 appears to be very well made and reliable.

As a result of the gas cost, I bought a scooter (Genuine Stella - super cool vintage Vespa derived) because most of my in town errand running and eating out is 1 to 2 miles away. A car is a huge waste for that kind of trip.

I will say that my RX-8 is very well built and seems durable. It's a blast to drive, more tossable than a 3 and perhaps a little more enthusiastic about hell raising and general hooliganism, and at $26k out the door, my Base 8 is a great value. When you start looking at $30k you have to consider cars like the IS300- with that awesome straight six;). It's a great car and will be discounted into the high 20's as the new model is rolled out. Or, the Infiniti G coupe.

If I could do it all over again for $26k I'd get the 8. But, I'd also look at the new Mustang GT. It's a pretty damn good car and a great value. If money was not an object, I'd get a loaded 330Ci coupe. A beautiful and rewarding all arounder with the best soundtrack.

To specifically answer your question, once you get over the 8's freaky interior design you'll find that it works quite well, is built of fairly high quality materials, is assembled well, and seems pretty durable. And, it does seem to be a little more simply constructed in a way that makes you think it will age well and not be particularly expensive to maintain. Especially compared to German iron.

my previous car to the rx8 was a 03 bmw 320I, not the fastest engine but nonetheless it was a fun car to drive and it handled and sounded great. Very smooth as well. Compared to my RX8 though, i like the RX8 better. I like the sports car feeling i get from driving it and i feel like sebastien loeb rippin around north van lol. Sebastien Loeb is a rally car driver and the reason why i mentioned his name here was because i think his driving style and technique is as precise and smooth as a driver can get. IMO's one of the best drivers in the world.

One thing i noticed from switching cars was that whenever i started the bmw it always had a great grunting sound. However in the RX8, whenever i start up the engine it sounds like a little toy car . I really dislike the ignition sound of the rx8 compared to the BMW

Thanks for your insight. I'm currently driving an X5 (not by choice). The 3-series is a rally car by comparison. What I missed in my test drives of the RX8 was the torque of the 328i and that sweet BMW 6 engine note. On the other hand, the Wankel is lovely as it approaches the buzzer. I want a manual transmission back (not the BMW SMG), and the RX8's shifter is every bit as nice as the S2000 and better than the BMW 3-series, but I have to drive the thing every day, too. I can get a GREAT deal on an RX8, but if I lose the X5 in the process I'll be stuck without something to transport my bicycle.

Guess I just need TWO new cars :-)

Mustang GT? Live rear axle, (domestic) Ford reliabilty...

I know it's received good reviews. I drove a previous generation Mustang GT convertible as a rental car a year ago and thought it was garbage. Extraordinarily uncomfortable seats, a HUGE amount of perceptible body flex; REALLY disappointing.

No, you just need the RX-8.

And one of these: https://www.rx8club.com/showpost.php...5&postcount=95

Read the thread, particularly from post 85 onward: https://www.rx8club.com/series-i-tech-garage-22/custom-hitch-30917/


I had an '87 528e (E28 chassis) that I restored to better-than-new condition + upgrades/mods, and put 100k miles on it (sold it with 202k total). I loved it, except that it couldn't get out of its own way. I later briefly had a '98 328i (E36 sedan) with sport package, M3 front fascia, M-contour wheels, debaged, euro lamps, clear lenses... it looked like an M3 sedan. There were things about it that I liked, and things that I hated. The RX-8 will not be disappointing to you, unless you value 'having a BMW' more than the actual characteristics of the car. The 8 will have less grunt, but is actually more refined in a lot of its feel and handling.