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I read 750-850celcius while cruisin at 3500rpm, 14afr, idle is like 500-550c
I have 2 sensors, both are pre turbo, one in each runner
the highest egt i read is when i cruise, as soon as i do a pull they drop alot and then rise back up
I was wondering why my manifold/turbo/db was glowing before, now i know lol
I added more timing in the idle and cruising parts of the map and my manifold doesn't seem to glow as bright. I was shocked how high the EGTs were at cruising.
What I find amazing is that my manifold is schedule 40 mild steel, and when I had the car apart last weekend that manifold looks as good as the day I welded it up. It doesn't seem to have warped or anything, and thats with maybe a hundred hours of glowing red/pink.....
I tried to do a power pull yesterday to log EGT, but at 20+ psi and 7,000 RPMs in second gear i blew a charge pipe off and it scared the hell out of me. Seemed like the EGTs were starting to dip a bit, but I was only at WOT for like 2-3 seconds. Luckily with MAP tuning I was able to drive it all the way home without the turbo. I'm going to try and spray the ends of the charge pipes with hair spray which should help.
On December 29th in Bradenton, FL they are going to have a test and tune roll-race event and drag racing event from like 1 pm to midnight. Gotta try to have everything fixed by then so I can try to blow it up.
Dumb question but is the end of your piping rolled? When I was just messing with mine I noticed one wasn’t and I made a “roller” out of some vice grips.
Yep they are that is a good idea though. I used a thin coat of hylomar which gets real tacky when it dries. The pipes are now holding....
New video to check out my new EGT gauge.
Was a quick blast from 45-95 mph in 3rd gear just shy of 10mph/s. Will go up through 4th on a better road.
Went from about 1,400F to 1,650F and that with it going lean up top.
Turbo is real responsive in the cold, 10 psi by 3,600, 20 psi by 4,500
MAP sensor seems to be acting up again in the vacuum readings
I have a drive-train vibration like I didn't align the PPF correctly.
Will sort it all out in time.
Had some time to wire up the second fuel pump. I now have my 400 LPH AEM pump as my primary (check valve on Bosch 044). I though I could use the methanol injection pump as my relay switch for the Bosch 044 pump, but the pump put out too much voltage even when not pumping methanol at 11 psi. So I got a hobbs switch off one of my old methanol injection kits and installed it into the glove box next to the AEM controller. The relay for the secondary pump (Bosch 044) is now controlled off the hobbs switch at 5 psi. I can also move a blade connector over to an always hot lead on the hobbs switch if I want the pump to run continuously. I also have adjustability as to when the second pump comes on. I will probably run an LED into my gauge cluster to light up when the relay is being energized so I can make sure that pump is coming on when it should.
Hopefully this should be all the fuel I will ever need. Last couple runs I logged I was using upwards of 3000 cc/min of injection on each rotor and the fuel pressure should have been around 65-67 psi, but I was having a hard time keeping it above 60 psi....
Last edited by strokercharged95gt; 12-16-2018 at 10:25 AM.
Well i'm at a loss. According to Adaptronics I am out of injector again 90% duty cycle on all the injectors with 53% ethanol, 22 psi, and 7,500 RPMs? How is this possible as I was nearly doing that with my 725/1000/1000s (2,725 cc/min)and now I am 1000/1000/1650 (3,650 cc/min)??? Having a hard time keeping air/fuel below 12:1. I figured the new fuel pump would help. Not sure how its all being maxed so quickly again, I was sure I had a bunch more in it.... This is getting frustrating!
On the bright side I got my fastest 3rd gear pull to date. It helped it was 60 degrees out and dry. Delta RPM rate of 810 RPMs/sec between 5,800-7,200 RPMs, which is 10.13 mph/s acceleration from 70-100 or about 3 seconds... EGTs on front rotor seemed to max out around 1,725 F. No abnormal knock values.
Here is a quick 20-120 mph blast. Still trying to figure out why I don't seem to have enough injector no matter what I do. If anyone has an ideas other than bigger injectors. Maybe one is semi-clogged? I guess I will up the fuel pressure 3 psi (43.5 to 46.5) and see what that gets me.
Here is what i'm talking about. Car is out of injector by 7,400 RPMs and adding more VE in the fuel map doesn't do much. Trying to keep fuel in the low 11's, but in the third stage i'm only able to keep it in the low 12s. Hard to place the problem since the car is running real fast and no knock valuies. The only thing that makes sense is one of the 1000cc/min injectors in the P2 (high-power, 3rd stage) positions isn't firing and I keep adding fuel to that part of the map. Front rotor EGT only hit 1680 F on this pull to 100 mph. I would think if it were extremely lean I would see much higher. Maybe the P2 rear isn't firing? I should have no problem keeping it rich with headroom on the injectors....
Well I think the problem is fixed. I ran injector diagnostics in Eugene and found that I wasn't getting a return signal from Injector 4 which is both secondary injectors. I pulled the adapter harness apart and reconnected and was able to see a return signal in Eugene. Bolted the UIM back on and took it for a spin. Was getting less than 10:1 AF above 6k which means I was getting a bunch of extra fuel. Took out 25% fuel in the upper RPMs and quickly roughed in a new map for a pull. If I see the injector acting up in the future, I will just have to make a custom harness and get rid of all the adapters.
This is definitely a much better outcome. While I was still at 12:1 at 20 psi and 7,500 RPMs, I only was using 30% (dull yellow line) of the P2 1000 cc/min injectors. This gives me approximately 700 cc/min of headroom on each rotor. Now I can turn it up or add more ethanol.
Also I bested my 3rd gear acceleration with a Delta rate of 818 RPMs/sec, which is 10.23 mph/s.
Last edited by strokercharged95gt; 12-17-2018 at 11:21 AM.
Another Update: I know its boring, but I hit another new record.
Ambient Temp 55F
3rd gear pull to about 7,500. Did some other pulls to 8,200, but it was so rich up top that I have to pull fuel.
22-24 PSI
60% Ethanol
Little bit richer on this pull
Delta RPM rate 860 RPMs/S which is a 3rd gear acceleration of 10.75 MPH/S. Iv'e picked up greater than a 1/2 a mile per hour per second today alone, which could be 5-6 mph trap speed in the quarter.
Best Part is even when I pulled it all the way up the 8,200, I still have 40% of the last injector left.
Still have to review my EGTs after fixing the injector.
Reviewed the EGT footage of another pull and from 20 mph to midway through 4th gear, EGTs maxed out at around 1625 F, which is 100F less than I was getting on the leaner front rotor yesterday (malfunctioning injector). Looks like I need to refill my methanol/water tank as the light is flashing at me....
It was real cold a few nights ago and with a duty cycle of 54, I was hitting over 25 psi in third gear which ruined a great pull when the overboost function kicked on. I have since raised my limiter to 27 psi. I have upped my turbo duty cycle to 57 in a bit warmer weather (60 F) and am having difficulty getting more than 22 psi. I usually can make 20 psi at a duty cycle of 50 so i'm not sure why i'm having a hard time keeping the boost high. Car is running great otherwise. I haven't made any significant timing adjustments in a while, just been trying to get a nice flat A/F at 11.5:1. Its damn near perfect when I do a lugging 3rd gear pull from 30-100 mph (much like a dyno), but when you blasting through gears i'm just happy to have it in the neighborhood.
So for this pull
Ambient 60F
Duty Cycle 57 or 20-22 psi
Ethanol Content was like 60-65
Injecting ~800 cc/min of methanol/water
Timing 11-13 leading under boost, split 10
2nd gear to 8,000 and 3rd gear to 7,800
Third stage injection at 50%
Nothing out of the ordinary on the knock sensor Delta RPM rate in third gear was 872 RPMs/Sec!, which is an acceleration 10.90 MPH/S and that was with boost starting at only 12.25 psi (shifted out of second at 8k). Delta RPM rate in second gear was at 1,877 RPMs/Sec, which is an acceleration of 16.46 MPH/S.
I have come along way from the 8-9 MPH/S acceleration I was getting in third gear with 93 octane between 17-21 psi just a few months ago. Car just pulls and pulls.
Everything is dialed in really nice right now, I just need to keep upping the duty cycle until I get a nice 25 psi.
Going to the track on Saturday night. If I can just get a decent launch I should be able to get some good numbers...
Last edited by strokercharged95gt; 12-25-2018 at 08:40 PM.
Made the 140-mile round-trip and was able to get 3 passes in without any issues with the car, which is the win for the night.
Cars kept blowing up on the track which kept delaying the nearly 200 cars that showed up to run. I saw car #165 at some point in the night. Track temp was 70, and it was real humid out (could barely see out of my windshield during the third run).
Launching the car is killing my times (dismal 60 foot times). I bogged, spun, and wheel-hopped during the 3 runs. Its not as simple as heating the drag radials up and sidestepping the clutch at 8,000 RPMs. The OEM drive-train would shatter likes glass as the track is real sticky. I have to try to find the point where I can get out of the hole quick without tearing stuff up. I intentionally did not heat my tires up so I would spin instead of breaking.
Anyways first run I tried to launch at 4,000 RPMs, but that was way to low and the car bogged (fell on its face at 1,500 RPMs). Was able to run a mid-13 at 116 mph.
On the second run, I turned the 2-step up to 6,000 RPMs. Spun hard on the launch had some wheel hop then hit the rev limiter in 1st and 2nd gear, which killed my momentum (second gear especially). 60 foot was best spinning at 2.27. MPH was the lowest of the night with a 13.0 @ 114 mph.
Trying to keep the car from spinning so much, I turned the 2-step down to 5,700 RPMs on the third run. Car still spun and got some real nasty wheel hop in first gear. Had to pedal it a bit before shifting into second which again killed my time with a 2.49 60 foot. Was able to trap 95 mph in the 1/8th on this run. 1/4-mile was a 12.9 @ 116 mph.
The whole night I was only able to get between 20-24 psi and that was with my Duty Cycle turned up to 64 at one point. My A/F ratios were all in the high 10s which didn't do me any favors since I had it tuned at mid-11s when it was colder/dryer.
I'm going to have to keep playing with the launch control setting to see what works the best. Times were not good, but its a good starting point.
Update: Well after reviewing the logs, I think I have figured out why I am having such a difficult time in launch control. 2-step is working fine, but the launch control release is not working as it should which is due to the fact that I have the MVSS tapped into the rear wheel. I originally setup Adaptronic to read my rear wheels so I could log wheel spin, clutch spin, traction, etc. But in launch mode, the car reads the speed sensor to determine when to turn the first limiter off which was 5,700 RPMs in this run (run 3). So once I get any wheel spin the speed sensor reads artificially high and disables launch control (see in the log below). So instead of me trying to ride the car out into traction at 5,700, the car was immediately hitting the 8,300 RPM limiter instead. I spent 2 seconds just riding out tire spin. I then have to pedal it and get nasty wheel hop before finally getting the tires planted for the rest of first gear. I will now have to find a way to tap the front wheel speed sensor and use that as an input instead or launch control is useless. Logs say i'm building 10 psi on the 2-step and gauge reads 0, so i'm not sure whats correct.
If anyone knows how to tap a front wheel speed sensor on the 8, please let me know the best way.
Last edited by strokercharged95gt; 12-31-2018 at 10:05 AM.
that's the easiest way to do the wheel speed sensors.. that data is all broadcast on the CAN bus
The Select required use of GM hall sensors wired into it via its aux inputs. I don't know if the new modular ECU supports the OEM sensors directly, but I see no reason why it couldn't it.
Been there, done that, with the Select. I scrolled back far enough to see some references to the Select here. Unless Andy has made some major changes to the old Select models, the only way he's going to get the wheel sensors is with aftermarket ones with some custom rules to calibrate / map them to wheel speed. I actually have a set of supported sensors I never got around to installing. Since my 8 is long gone now I have no use for them....
I'm sure I can also find the prior discussions Andy and I had on this topic as we went into a pretty decent level of detail.
Again, my guess is the new modular model handles this very differently -- hopefully just mapping registers / values / scales via the CANBUS.
For the MVSS in Adaptronics I tapped into the CAN wire (green/red) and I use that as my general speed sensor. It is obviously seeing a signal from my rear wheels (as it logs wheels spin, etc.). In Eugene (Adaptronics interface), I have it all calibrated in speed sensor settings as a digital signal (for MVSS). This all works since I can log my MPH.
I still have the SVSS input I can attach to the Adaptronics Select unit (the same way I attached the MVSS). I wonder if I can simply find the return signal from the front left or front right speed sensor going into the ABS unit, splice that signal into the SVSS pin, then select that in speed sensor settings as a "reluctor" and not "digital". Then finally calibrate. If that works I should be able to tell launch control to use the SVSS signal to determine when to lift the first rev limiter? Will this work?
Do you have stiffer diff. bushes fitted ? That helped a lot with my wheel hop . Some promising results !
I have 100% factory OEM suspension. What brand of stiffer bushing is everyone using?
I was really hoping to be able to hit 120 mph in the 1/4, but I am happy with the 95 mph I got in the 1/8th on run 3. ETs will improve once I get some of these issues fixed.
For the MVSS in Adaptronics I tapped into the CAN wire (green/red) and I use that as my general speed sensor. It is obviously seeing a signal from my rear wheels (as it logs wheels spin, etc.). In Eugene (Adaptronics interface), I have it all calibrated in speed sensor settings as a digital signal (for MVSS). This all works since I can log my MPH.
I still have the SVSS input I can attach to the Adaptronics Select unit (the same way I attached the MVSS). I wonder if I can simply find the return signal from the front left or front right speed sensor going into the ABS unit, splice that signal into the SVSS pin, then select that in speed sensor settings as a "reluctor" and not "digital". Then finally calibrate. If that works I should be able to tell launch control to use the SVSS signal to determine when to lift the first rev limiter? Will this work?
Thanks for the help so far.
I never got to use Eugene.... it looks very clean interface wise. I think you're on the right track. Unless things have changed you'll only get vehicle speed until you setup additional sensors. I remember Andy not being sure the Select would be able to calibrate the OEM sensors properly which is why he recommended the GM ones. Keep in mind this is all very old information and perhaps things have changed with firmware updates and the intro of Eugene.
EDIT -- I may also be confusing some of the sensors we went with.... I'll have to track down the details if you need them. I believe where we went was GM for additional IAT sensing and a hall sensor that I can't remember the specific model info for wheel speed off the top of my head. If I rummage in my leftover 8 parts boxes I'm also sure I'll find the ones I bought (in addition to the "GM" IAT sensor I never used either).
I never got to use Eugene.... it looks very clean interface wise. I think you're on the right track. Unless things have changed you'll only get vehicle speed until you setup additional sensors. I remember Andy not being sure the Select would be able to calibrate the OEM sensors properly which is why he recommended the GM ones. Keep in mind this is all very old information and perhaps things have changed with firmware updates and the intro of Eugene.
EDIT -- I may also be confusing some of the sensors we went with.... I'll have to track down the details if you need them. I believe where we went was GM for additional IAT sensing and a hall sensor that I can't remember the specific model info for wheel speed off the top of my head. If I rummage in my leftover 8 parts boxes I'm also sure I'll find the ones I bought (in addition to the "GM" IAT sensor I never used either).
I will try to run the front wheel sensor signal into the SVSS on the 6-pin or 8-pin input on the Adaptronics Select and see if I can get a signal with wheels tomorrow.
Originally Posted by Brettus
I have the rx8 performance bushes . Not sure what others use. I don't think there has been much effort put into drag racing on the stock driveline.
A little more digging in the logs to try to learn some things about the runs. This is the log from the 3rd run, which had the highest 1/8th mile speed (95 mph) and tied the first run for the high 1/4 mile speed (116 mph). It was also the lowest ET (12.9). I had the car previously dialed in street tuning on a much cooler and dryer night, so the warmer/humid night required less fuel and I was getting 10.5:1 A/F (light blue line) from 6,400-8,200 RPMs. Acceleration in third gear was down to 768 RPMs/S or 9.60 MPH/S, which was down almost a MPH/S from previous street pulls. The previous logs confirm that the car runs better at 11-12:1 AF. I think a 120 mph 1/4 mile trap speed is just a cool night away with no other real changes.
IAT data (purple line) shows that the temp increase from 100 to just over 140 during the entire run and that was with injection about 400 cc/min of water/meth directly into the turbos compressor blades and another 400 cc/min into the Greddy elbow just before the UIM. From the video it was nice to confirm that EGTs only briefly hit 1650F at the very top of 4th gear, but mostly hoovered around 1600 F. The 10.5:1 A/F and 65% ethanol content had a lot to do with it.
I am also happy with the gearing as I lifted at the end of the 1/4 mile at 7,200 RPMs in 4th gear or 124 MPH (pink line). At 8,200 in 4th gear I will be at 141 mph, so I have a good amount of 4th gear left for some more power.
Was also right at 75% DC on the last injector (dull yellow line) with a rich 10.5:1 A/F and 65% ethanol.
Last edited by strokercharged95gt; 12-31-2018 at 05:41 PM.
Update: Been trying to get Adaptronics to read one of my front ABS sensors. Adaptronics said they have not tried what I was doing before, and advised me to run the other wire from the sensor into the sensor ground on the board. Tried that an I still have no signal I can calibrate. Tried both front sensor in case one was bad. I guess I will have to mount a special sensor on one of the front wheels or find another method for getting a different speed sensor to work as my SVSS. If I can't get something to work then launch control will be a bust.
Also when I had bad wheel hop or a hard shift my stereo/display/ac lights all turned off. No fuses blown, its like the unit shorted out or something. Luckily my AC still blows cold and I can adjust the *****. So now I have to try and fix my stereo. Anyone know of this issue or know of a quick fix?
I also will be ordering all of the 3.5-inch piping to upgrade my restrictive exhaust system. I know the mid-pipe has areas that are not true 3" and neck down to 2.75-inch at the flanges. I may just go open dump tube with a 3.5-inch from the turbo back to the cat-back where it will neck down into a true 3". I will leave it so I can recirculate the wastegate in the future so I can do some testing with and without..... I also plan to run a 3.5-inch dynomax bullet style muffler right after the end of the downpipe to see if that can help make the car quieter. That would still leave me with a 3-inch resonator and 3" HKS-hipower at the rear.
Where are you measuring IAT ? After the second injector ? How much do you think it would climb without the W/M ?
I have a triumph fast acting IAT sensor mounted in the FD UIM so its upstream of the secondary injectors.
I have no idea what those temp values would be if I turned the water/meth off. Since my intercooler is mounted flat it doesn't really get good flow over it so the water/meth probably does the bulk of the cooling.
12-05-2018, 06:41 AM
