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Strokercharged95GT 13b-REW Build

Old 11-22-2018, 08:41 AM
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Update: took it back apart, plates were in correct order. BUT, pilot bearing had some damage on it likely from the install which likely was causing the output shaft to lock onto the e-shaft. Removed the damaged pilot bearing using the bread trick and installed a extra one I had. I have the engine and transmission only a 0.5-.75 inches apart and cant seem to get the bell-housing to seat on the motor. Trying to thread the output shaft through the pressure plate, two discs, and the pilot bearing seems much more difficult than a standard single disc setup. This car has been giving me such headaches lately as nothing seems to want to go together.... I seriously need to get a lift.

Last edited by strokercharged95gt; 11-22-2018 at 08:43 AM.
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Old 12-01-2018, 03:43 PM
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Update: Car is back together and is up and running. Moved the car around in the garage with the new clutch. Shockingly smooth engagement for two 7.25" sintered discs. No chatter yet. The pedal pressure is about double, but I need to adjust the clutch rod because I am overthrowing the master/slave since the engagement point is 3/4 of the way off the floor. Pedal pressure may go down once I get it adjusted properly. After running for 15 minutes I have one drop of oil I have to track down since I resealed the front cover and oil pan with Toyota FIP Black. Hopefully a fitting only needs to be tightened. I also am removing my oil temp gauge and putting in a EGT gauge. I ended up putting the probe about 2 inches from the front PPort. Due to my manifold design, it was easier to install on the front. When I bought the junk engine, the front rotor was blown, and when I blew a piece of apex seal off it was also in the front rotor so why not. I also keep blasting vacuum caps off of the UIM, which is causing small vacuum leaks. I am now just using a piece of hose running from one port to another to seal it up. Car is idling at 1,400-1,500 RPMs and vacuum is 12-13". Still have to do some finishing details and should be able to give a full review of the Spec Mini Twin Disc D-Trim for the rx8....

Put about 50 miles on the car today. Engagement is smooth, no chattering, and slips into gear real nice. There is about a half-inch or inch of travel on the clutch from full off to full on. You have to be careful to release the clutch just right. Don't release high enough and the car just sits there. Release too high and the car jumps forward and will likely stall. Way smoother than the 6 puck clutch, but harder to hit that sweet spot. After some adjustment, pedal pressure still seems about 50% more than stock, which is fine since the rx8 clutch from factory is super light. Only stalled it once getting used to the engagement point. By the way the car jumped after letting out a tad quick gives you the feeling that this will hold some serious power. With the clutch in I get the normal multi-disc clutch noise, but it is not loud at all (sounds like a vibrating symbol instrument, not like rocks bouncing around in the bell-housing like the Supras have). On about 10-15% of the times I shift the car I get a bit of squeal, but this seems to happen most on downshifts and shifting into high gear without many RPMs. All in all I believe I will be able to slip the car into gear at the track without too much trouble and it should be able to hold all that torque that a 13b will produce. I also can't get the EGT to get a signal from the probe, but I had to extend the harness and it was shielded so I will have to call Prosport to see what they think.

So for a run down of the changes to the car.

New Master Cylinder (replaced original)
New Slave Cylinder (replaced original)
New clutch fluid (replaced original)
New Serpentine and AC belts (replaced original)
Resealed the front cover and oil pan with Toyota FIP Black
Welded EGT bung in manifold (2" from PPort) with EGT gauge (to replace oil temp)
Found a small exhaust leak on the down-pipe and re-welded
Rear Counterweight for FD
SPEC Steel Flywheel
SPEC Twin Disc (D-Trim) - 800 lb/tq rated
Oil change - 10w-40
Flushed coolant

Last edited by strokercharged95gt; 12-03-2018 at 06:58 AM.
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Old 12-03-2018, 05:53 PM
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Fixed the EGT gauge. The harness was faulty the way it came. Found a bad spot in the wire with a ohm meter and re-soldered.

The EGT probe is mounted literally 2 inches from the front PPort. Was seeing about 800F (12.5-13:1 AF, 1,500 RPMs, 20 Leading) on startup idle. 1,300-1,600F cruising around at 14.5-15:1 A/F, 32 Leading (need to richen it up a point to bring those down). After the car was warmed up, I was seeing a 1,200F idle (13:1 AF).... Its wet outside so no power pulls.

Last edited by strokercharged95gt; 12-03-2018 at 06:38 PM.
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Old 12-03-2018, 09:37 PM
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Wow, I see 1,100 just at idle and 1600-1700 crusin
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Old 12-04-2018, 07:10 AM
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Originally Posted by Schartz View Post
Wow, I see 1,100 just at idle and 1600-1700 crusin
Those values were on E50 fuel so they'd likely be higher if I were on 93. Once this front passes and it dries out I will get to see what EGTs I get with E50 and water/meth injection.
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Old 12-04-2018, 07:20 PM
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I read 750-850celcius while cruisin at 3500rpm, 14afr, idle is like 500-550c

I have 2 sensors, both are pre turbo, one in each runner

the highest egt i read is when i cruise, as soon as i do a pull they drop alot and then rise back up

I was wondering why my manifold/turbo/db was glowing before, now i know lol
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Old 12-05-2018, 06:41 AM
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Originally Posted by MaD666MaX View Post
I read 750-850celcius while cruisin at 3500rpm, 14afr, idle is like 500-550c

I have 2 sensors, both are pre turbo, one in each runner

the highest egt i read is when i cruise, as soon as i do a pull they drop alot and then rise back up

I was wondering why my manifold/turbo/db was glowing before, now i know lol
I added more timing in the idle and cruising parts of the map and my manifold doesn't seem to glow as bright. I was shocked how high the EGTs were at cruising.

What I find amazing is that my manifold is schedule 40 mild steel, and when I had the car apart last weekend that manifold looks as good as the day I welded it up. It doesn't seem to have warped or anything, and thats with maybe a hundred hours of glowing red/pink.....

I tried to do a power pull yesterday to log EGT, but at 20+ psi and 7,000 RPMs in second gear i blew a charge pipe off and it scared the hell out of me. Seemed like the EGTs were starting to dip a bit, but I was only at WOT for like 2-3 seconds. Luckily with MAP tuning I was able to drive it all the way home without the turbo. I'm going to try and spray the ends of the charge pipes with hair spray which should help.

On December 29th in Bradenton, FL they are going to have a test and tune roll-race event and drag racing event from like 1 pm to midnight. Gotta try to have everything fixed by then so I can try to blow it up.
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Old 12-05-2018, 06:37 PM
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Dumb question but is the end of your piping rolled? When I was just messing with mine I noticed one wasn’t and I made a “roller” out of some vice grips.
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Old 12-05-2018, 06:54 PM
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Yep they are that is a good idea though. I used a thin coat of hylomar which gets real tacky when it dries. The pipes are now holding....

New video to check out my new EGT gauge.
Was a quick blast from 45-95 mph in 3rd gear just shy of 10mph/s. Will go up through 4th on a better road.
Went from about 1,400F to 1,650F and that with it going lean up top.
Turbo is real responsive in the cold, 10 psi by 3,600, 20 psi by 4,500
MAP sensor seems to be acting up again in the vacuum readings
I have a drive-train vibration like I didn't align the PPF correctly.
Will sort it all out in time.



Last edited by strokercharged95gt; 12-05-2018 at 07:04 PM.
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Old 12-16-2018, 10:22 AM
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Had some time to wire up the second fuel pump. I now have my 400 LPH AEM pump as my primary (check valve on Bosch 044). I though I could use the methanol injection pump as my relay switch for the Bosch 044 pump, but the pump put out too much voltage even when not pumping methanol at 11 psi. So I got a hobbs switch off one of my old methanol injection kits and installed it into the glove box next to the AEM controller. The relay for the secondary pump (Bosch 044) is now controlled off the hobbs switch at 5 psi. I can also move a blade connector over to an always hot lead on the hobbs switch if I want the pump to run continuously. I also have adjustability as to when the second pump comes on. I will probably run an LED into my gauge cluster to light up when the relay is being energized so I can make sure that pump is coming on when it should.

Hopefully this should be all the fuel I will ever need. Last couple runs I logged I was using upwards of 3000 cc/min of injection on each rotor and the fuel pressure should have been around 65-67 psi, but I was having a hard time keeping it above 60 psi....





Last edited by strokercharged95gt; 12-16-2018 at 10:25 AM.
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Old 12-16-2018, 07:19 PM
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Well i'm at a loss. According to Adaptronics I am out of injector again 90% duty cycle on all the injectors with 53% ethanol, 22 psi, and 7,500 RPMs? How is this possible as I was nearly doing that with my 725/1000/1000s (2,725 cc/min)and now I am 1000/1000/1650 (3,650 cc/min)??? Having a hard time keeping air/fuel below 12:1. I figured the new fuel pump would help. Not sure how its all being maxed so quickly again, I was sure I had a bunch more in it.... This is getting frustrating!

On the bright side I got my fastest 3rd gear pull to date. It helped it was 60 degrees out and dry. Delta RPM rate of 810 RPMs/sec between 5,800-7,200 RPMs, which is 10.13 mph/s acceleration from 70-100 or about 3 seconds... EGTs on front rotor seemed to max out around 1,725 F. No abnormal knock values.

Here is a quick 20-120 mph blast. Still trying to figure out why I don't seem to have enough injector no matter what I do. If anyone has an ideas other than bigger injectors. Maybe one is semi-clogged? I guess I will up the fuel pressure 3 psi (43.5 to 46.5) and see what that gets me.


Last edited by strokercharged95gt; 12-17-2018 at 06:16 AM.
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Old 12-17-2018, 08:12 AM
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Here is what i'm talking about. Car is out of injector by 7,400 RPMs and adding more VE in the fuel map doesn't do much. Trying to keep fuel in the low 11's, but in the third stage i'm only able to keep it in the low 12s. Hard to place the problem since the car is running real fast and no knock valuies. The only thing that makes sense is one of the 1000cc/min injectors in the P2 (high-power, 3rd stage) positions isn't firing and I keep adding fuel to that part of the map. Front rotor EGT only hit 1680 F on this pull to 100 mph. I would think if it were extremely lean I would see much higher. Maybe the P2 rear isn't firing? I should have no problem keeping it rich with headroom on the injectors....

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Old 12-17-2018, 11:18 AM
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Well I think the problem is fixed. I ran injector diagnostics in Eugene and found that I wasn't getting a return signal from Injector 4 which is both secondary injectors. I pulled the adapter harness apart and reconnected and was able to see a return signal in Eugene. Bolted the UIM back on and took it for a spin. Was getting less than 10:1 AF above 6k which means I was getting a bunch of extra fuel. Took out 25% fuel in the upper RPMs and quickly roughed in a new map for a pull. If I see the injector acting up in the future, I will just have to make a custom harness and get rid of all the adapters.

This is definitely a much better outcome. While I was still at 12:1 at 20 psi and 7,500 RPMs, I only was using 30% (dull yellow line) of the P2 1000 cc/min injectors. This gives me approximately 700 cc/min of headroom on each rotor. Now I can turn it up or add more ethanol.

Also I bested my 3rd gear acceleration with a Delta rate of 818 RPMs/sec, which is 10.23 mph/s.


Last edited by strokercharged95gt; 12-17-2018 at 11:21 AM.
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Old 12-17-2018, 08:03 PM
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Another Update: I know its boring, but I hit another new record.
Ambient Temp 55F
3rd gear pull to about 7,500. Did some other pulls to 8,200, but it was so rich up top that I have to pull fuel.
22-24 PSI
60% Ethanol
Little bit richer on this pull
Delta RPM rate 860 RPMs/S which is a 3rd gear acceleration of 10.75 MPH/S. Iv'e picked up greater than a 1/2 a mile per hour per second today alone, which could be 5-6 mph trap speed in the quarter.
Best Part is even when I pulled it all the way up the 8,200, I still have 40% of the last injector left.
Still have to review my EGTs after fixing the injector.



Reviewed the EGT footage of another pull and from 20 mph to midway through 4th gear, EGTs maxed out at around 1625 F, which is 100F less than I was getting on the leaner front rotor yesterday (malfunctioning injector). Looks like I need to refill my methanol/water tank as the light is flashing at me....


Last edited by strokercharged95gt; 12-17-2018 at 08:23 PM.
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Old 12-25-2018, 08:17 PM
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New Update

It was real cold a few nights ago and with a duty cycle of 54, I was hitting over 25 psi in third gear which ruined a great pull when the overboost function kicked on. I have since raised my limiter to 27 psi. I have upped my turbo duty cycle to 57 in a bit warmer weather (60 F) and am having difficulty getting more than 22 psi. I usually can make 20 psi at a duty cycle of 50 so i'm not sure why i'm having a hard time keeping the boost high. Car is running great otherwise. I haven't made any significant timing adjustments in a while, just been trying to get a nice flat A/F at 11.5:1. Its damn near perfect when I do a lugging 3rd gear pull from 30-100 mph (much like a dyno), but when you blasting through gears i'm just happy to have it in the neighborhood.

So for this pull
Ambient 60F
Duty Cycle 57 or 20-22 psi
Ethanol Content was like 60-65
Injecting ~800 cc/min of methanol/water
Timing 11-13 leading under boost, split 10
2nd gear to 8,000 and 3rd gear to 7,800
Third stage injection at 50%
Nothing out of the ordinary on the knock sensor
Delta RPM rate in third gear was 872 RPMs/Sec!, which is an acceleration 10.90 MPH/S and that was with boost starting at only 12.25 psi (shifted out of second at 8k).
Delta RPM rate in second gear was at 1,877 RPMs/Sec, which is an acceleration of 16.46 MPH/S.
I have come along way from the 8-9 MPH/S acceleration I was getting in third gear with 93 octane between 17-21 psi just a few months ago. Car just pulls and pulls.
Everything is dialed in really nice right now, I just need to keep upping the duty cycle until I get a nice 25 psi.
Going to the track on Saturday night. If I can just get a decent launch I should be able to get some good numbers...


Last edited by strokercharged95gt; 12-25-2018 at 08:40 PM.
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Old 12-30-2018, 08:44 AM
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Update

Made the 140-mile round-trip and was able to get 3 passes in without any issues with the car, which is the win for the night.

Cars kept blowing up on the track which kept delaying the nearly 200 cars that showed up to run. I saw car #165 at some point in the night. Track temp was 70, and it was real humid out (could barely see out of my windshield during the third run).

Launching the car is killing my times (dismal 60 foot times). I bogged, spun, and wheel-hopped during the 3 runs. Its not as simple as heating the drag radials up and sidestepping the clutch at 8,000 RPMs. The OEM drive-train would shatter likes glass as the track is real sticky. I have to try to find the point where I can get out of the hole quick without tearing stuff up. I intentionally did not heat my tires up so I would spin instead of breaking.

Anyways first run I tried to launch at 4,000 RPMs, but that was way to low and the car bogged (fell on its face at 1,500 RPMs). Was able to run a mid-13 at 116 mph.

On the second run, I turned the 2-step up to 6,000 RPMs. Spun hard on the launch had some wheel hop then hit the rev limiter in 1st and 2nd gear, which killed my momentum (second gear especially). 60 foot was best spinning at 2.27. MPH was the lowest of the night with a 13.0 @ 114 mph.


Trying to keep the car from spinning so much, I turned the 2-step down to 5,700 RPMs on the third run. Car still spun and got some real nasty wheel hop in first gear. Had to pedal it a bit before shifting into second which again killed my time with a 2.49 60 foot. Was able to trap 95 mph in the 1/8th on this run. 1/4-mile was a 12.9 @ 116 mph.


The whole night I was only able to get between 20-24 psi and that was with my Duty Cycle turned up to 64 at one point. My A/F ratios were all in the high 10s which didn't do me any favors since I had it tuned at mid-11s when it was colder/dryer.

I'm going to have to keep playing with the launch control setting to see what works the best. Times were not good, but its a good starting point.

Update: Well after reviewing the logs, I think I have figured out why I am having such a difficult time in launch control. 2-step is working fine, but the launch control release is not working as it should which is due to the fact that I have the MVSS tapped into the rear wheel. I originally setup Adaptronic to read my rear wheels so I could log wheel spin, clutch spin, traction, etc. But in launch mode, the car reads the speed sensor to determine when to turn the first limiter off which was 5,700 RPMs in this run (run 3). So once I get any wheel spin the speed sensor reads artificially high and disables launch control (see in the log below). So instead of me trying to ride the car out into traction at 5,700, the car was immediately hitting the 8,300 RPM limiter instead. I spent 2 seconds just riding out tire spin. I then have to pedal it and get nasty wheel hop before finally getting the tires planted for the rest of first gear. I will now have to find a way to tap the front wheel speed sensor and use that as an input instead or launch control is useless. Logs say i'm building 10 psi on the 2-step and gauge reads 0, so i'm not sure whats correct.

If anyone knows how to tap a front wheel speed sensor on the 8, please let me know the best way.


Last edited by strokercharged95gt; 12-31-2018 at 10:05 AM.
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Old 12-31-2018, 11:45 AM
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Does the adaptronic do CAN?

that's the easiest way to do the wheel speed sensors.. that data is all broadcast on the CAN bus
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Old 12-31-2018, 11:54 AM
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Originally Posted by dannobre View Post
Does the adaptronic do CAN?

that's the easiest way to do the wheel speed sensors.. that data is all broadcast on the CAN bus
The Select required use of GM hall sensors wired into it via its aux inputs. I don't know if the new modular ECU supports the OEM sensors directly, but I see no reason why it couldn't it.
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Old 12-31-2018, 12:00 PM
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Looks like the Adaptronic has at least 1 CAN channel. I would contact them for the Can settings to pull in the wheel speed sensors....

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Old 12-31-2018, 01:19 PM
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Been there, done that, with the Select. I scrolled back far enough to see some references to the Select here. Unless Andy has made some major changes to the old Select models, the only way he's going to get the wheel sensors is with aftermarket ones with some custom rules to calibrate / map them to wheel speed. I actually have a set of supported sensors I never got around to installing. Since my 8 is long gone now I have no use for them....

I'm sure I can also find the prior discussions Andy and I had on this topic as we went into a pretty decent level of detail.

Again, my guess is the new modular model handles this very differently -- hopefully just mapping registers / values / scales via the CANBUS.
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Old 12-31-2018, 01:59 PM
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For the MVSS in Adaptronics I tapped into the CAN wire (green/red) and I use that as my general speed sensor. It is obviously seeing a signal from my rear wheels (as it logs wheels spin, etc.). In Eugene (Adaptronics interface), I have it all calibrated in speed sensor settings as a digital signal (for MVSS). This all works since I can log my MPH.

I still have the SVSS input I can attach to the Adaptronics Select unit (the same way I attached the MVSS). I wonder if I can simply find the return signal from the front left or front right speed sensor going into the ABS unit, splice that signal into the SVSS pin, then select that in speed sensor settings as a "reluctor" and not "digital". Then finally calibrate. If that works I should be able to tell launch control to use the SVSS signal to determine when to lift the first rev limiter? Will this work?

Thanks for the help so far.


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Old 12-31-2018, 02:01 PM
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Do you have stiffer diff. bushes fitted ? That helped a lot with my wheel hop . Some promising results !
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Old 12-31-2018, 02:25 PM
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Originally Posted by Brettus View Post
Do you have stiffer diff. bushes fitted ? That helped a lot with my wheel hop . Some promising results !
I have 100% factory OEM suspension. What brand of stiffer bushing is everyone using?

I was really hoping to be able to hit 120 mph in the 1/4, but I am happy with the 95 mph I got in the 1/8th on run 3. ETs will improve once I get some of these issues fixed.

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Old 12-31-2018, 02:43 PM
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I have the rx8 performance bushes . Not sure what others use. I don't think there has been much effort put into drag racing on the stock driveline.
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Old 12-31-2018, 03:01 PM
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Originally Posted by strokercharged95gt View Post
For the MVSS in Adaptronics I tapped into the CAN wire (green/red) and I use that as my general speed sensor. It is obviously seeing a signal from my rear wheels (as it logs wheels spin, etc.). In Eugene (Adaptronics interface), I have it all calibrated in speed sensor settings as a digital signal (for MVSS). This all works since I can log my MPH.

I still have the SVSS input I can attach to the Adaptronics Select unit (the same way I attached the MVSS). I wonder if I can simply find the return signal from the front left or front right speed sensor going into the ABS unit, splice that signal into the SVSS pin, then select that in speed sensor settings as a "reluctor" and not "digital". Then finally calibrate. If that works I should be able to tell launch control to use the SVSS signal to determine when to lift the first rev limiter? Will this work?

Thanks for the help so far.

I never got to use Eugene.... it looks very clean interface wise. I think you're on the right track. Unless things have changed you'll only get vehicle speed until you setup additional sensors. I remember Andy not being sure the Select would be able to calibrate the OEM sensors properly which is why he recommended the GM ones. Keep in mind this is all very old information and perhaps things have changed with firmware updates and the intro of Eugene.

EDIT -- I may also be confusing some of the sensors we went with.... I'll have to track down the details if you need them. I believe where we went was GM for additional IAT sensing and a hall sensor that I can't remember the specific model info for wheel speed off the top of my head. If I rummage in my leftover 8 parts boxes I'm also sure I'll find the ones I bought (in addition to the "GM" IAT sensor I never used either).




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