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Lol I’m mostly talking about the sidewall to wheel, not the width. Not every day you see an 8 set up for the strip. But even with that width people go single digits in the quarter mile.
Took the car out for a spin today, tires had no problem holding the road with a street temp of 50 degrees. Tires were only moderately warmed up from normal driving. Blasting to 8k in first gear was fun. Turbo had a hard time catching up to the motor. I am also able to datalog the speed sensor now, and it looks pretty accurate.
According to Tremec, with a 3.483 first gear, 4.44 rear end, and 26.2" tire, the speed at 7878 RPMs should be 39.71 mph and the datalog shows 39.2 mph.... I love having the long first gear now.
With the 5 speed tranny and 26.2" tires, I will be shifting at 40, 70, 100... It will make 1/8th mile runs great as I will only need to make 2 shifts.
Just my luck, they opened up an E85 station about 6-7 miles away, but I am already at 40% of my last stage 1000cc/min injector at 7600 (15 psi).
Last edited by strokercharged95gt; 01-06-2018 at 04:10 PM.
Took the car out for a spin. Have the turbo up to 17 psi. No sign of knock/ping. AFR 11.0 and timing around 13-14 total, 10 degree split. Cruise timing around 24-27 degrees.
I parked the car and popped the hood to make sure everything was okay. I noticed a little color peaking through the turbo blanket. I removed the blanket and....
Is this normal? Maybe richen it up from 14-14.5 AFR in cruise to 13.5?
Update: I took the car out again and it appears that the internal MAP sensor on the adaptronics unit is going bad. Positive pressure appears to be accurate, but the vacuum reading it off by about 5-6 mm HG. At 10-12 mm of HG on the boost gauge at light load, the MAP sensor is like 5-6 mm HG. Adaptronics thinks I am in medium load and is dropping the timing way down into the teens instead of being up in the mid 20s.... I switched the vacuum line to the unit and still the same. I also confirmed the boost gauge with a mechanical gauge. I either need to get a new internal MAP sensor or add timing in the low/medium load areas (compensate in the timing map for the sensor drift)
Last edited by strokercharged95gt; 01-19-2018 at 08:46 PM.
Why not get an external MAP sensor and wire it in instead.
On my NA RX8 I bought an external 1.2 Bar MAP sensor to provide more accuracy over the 4 Bar internal sensor. You might want to consider doing the same, but obviously for a max Bar value more suitable for the boost pressure you intend to run.
and you should be able to data log and see what timing it’s actually using, right?
Why not get an external MAP sensor and wire it in instead.
On my NA RX8 I bought an external 1.2 Bar MAP sensor to provide more accuracy over the 4 Bar internal sensor. You might want to consider doing the same, but obviously for a max Bar value more suitable for the boost pressure you intend to run.
and you should be able to data log and see what timing it’s actually using, right?
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I'm going to have to figure in how to wire an external MAP sensor on the adaptronics select. Currently, the factory rx8 MAP sensor is plugged in to the factory harness, but I do not have a vacuum line hooked up to it because it seems to make the throttle body/idle control go haywire... So I am not sure if I could simply wire it into the factory slot and tell adaptronics to use that (without issues). I would prefer a external map sensor, I will see if adaptronics has a good solution. I have already taken apart the select unit to install a speed sensor, but did not look to see if the internal MAP sensor could be simply unplugged or not (for replacement).
Update: I simply re-scaled my timing map to give more timing at higher loads in vacuum to account for the sensor drift. Timing is consistently in the mid to high 20s on light and moderate loads... Drove the car around for a bit and did some WOT pulls and I still have a glowing pink turbo housing. I think this is just the new normal at this boost level. Could it be that the rear turbine (0.91 AR) is starting to choke the motor up with 17-18 psi @ 8,000 RPMs? I do have the exhaust ports about as max as possible without removing the sleeve, and the irons have a decent amount of porting... Maybe jump up in turbo size or go to a 1.0 housing?
FYI. According to Wikipedia mild steel will glow red above 900F. My manifold has been glowing pink as of late so I used my digital thermometer and I was getting 950F, so it seems to be all expected.
Last edited by strokercharged95gt; 01-22-2018 at 06:20 PM.
Street is ok so long as it's nothing obviously illegal ...like racing .
Gotcha, I just got a 4k camera that I'm playing with. I hope to goto the 1/8th mile on Wednesday to see if I can go sub-8 or 90+ mph without breaking something.
Lets see if this video works, just a video of me pulling into traffic and safely getting up to speed (went WOT at 5k in 1st and stopped at 7.5k in 2nd). sound isn't all that great, but it was like a $68 dollar video camera. Been playing with meth injection setting goes pig rich above 7000 (also reduced turbo duty cycle above 7k for safety). Waiting on another nozzle to get here Monday to add a small shot pre-turbo. Right now i'm limiting boost to 14 psi in first gear and 17 psi on 2nd and up, hope to get it up to 20-22 psi soon.
As for gauges, top left is boost, bottom left is AFR, middle top is fuel pressure, middle bottom is oil pressure, top right is oil temp, bottom right is water temp.
Last edited by strokercharged95gt; 02-04-2018 at 07:44 AM.
Its hard to make legal exciting... I just got a second 250 ml/min nozzle threaded onto my air filter only a few inches from the compressor blades, I am going to do some logs to see if I can bring IAT's down further. I am injecting 500 ml/min into the Greddy elbow as well. 50:50 mixture meth to water. Begins to inject at 7 psi and fully injecting at 22 psi.
Last edited by strokercharged95gt; 01-29-2018 at 07:12 AM.
Well I have compared a few logs from the last few days. I wasn't able to get more data because one of my D585 coils **** out and the car runs like crap only running on the trailing coil.
First a 2-3 gear pull injecting 500cc/min of 50:50 into the greddy elbow. 96F-116F in 5.5 seconds of WOT (20 degree increase in 5.5 secs = 3.63 degree/sec), returned back to 100F within a few seconds.
After installing a 250 cc/min preturbo and 500 cc/min into the Greddy elbow. 89F-103F in 7.5 seconds of WOT (14 degrees in 7.5 seconds = 1.86 degree/sec, returned back to 89F in seconds.
FYI I am using a Triumph fast acting sensor in the factory rx7 UIM location (does great reading heatsoak at this location vs MAF location).
While the comparisons aren't great, the extra 125cc/min of methanol and 125 cc/min of water into the turbo compressor slowed the temperature rise by 50% (3.63 deg/sec vs 1.86 deg/sec increase).
Last edited by strokercharged95gt; 01-30-2018 at 05:44 PM.
Quite the odyssey throughout your build…, but good work: mad fabrication & problem solving skills. Funny watching the cars disappear in the rearview on the hwy entrance pull.
I see the 50% decrease in MAT rise when you added a 250 cc/min nozzle into the turbo compressor in addition to the 500 cc/min into the Greddy elbow. Couple of questions:
• Do you have logs comparing pre-W/M to your current set-up?
• W/ pre-compressor injection…any concerns about pitting the compressor blades?
• Are you running any fail-safe’s on your W/M? If so, what type & have you tested response time?
Interesting FM v V-mount IC data, even having installed the lower threshold t-stat simultaneously. Seems w/ installation of lower temp t-stat…, v-mount IC is unnecessary. Perhaps best of both worlds: lower coolant and MAT temps.
Any response on the above questions is greatly appreciated.
Again, good work.
Quite the odyssey throughout your build…, but good work: mad fabrication & problem solving skills. Funny watching the cars disappear in the rearview on the hwy entrance pull.
I see the 50% decrease in MAT rise when you added a 250 cc/min nozzle into the turbo compressor in addition to the 500 cc/min into the Greddy elbow. Couple of questions:
• Do you have logs comparing pre-W/M to your current set-up?
• W/ pre-compressor injection…any concerns about pitting the compressor blades?
• Are you running any fail-safe’s on your W/M? If so, what type & have you tested response time?
Interesting FM v V-mount IC data, even having installed the lower threshold t-stat simultaneously. Seems w/ installation of lower temp t-stat…, v-mount IC is unnecessary. Perhaps best of both worlds: lower coolant and MAT temps.
Any response on the above questions is greatly appreciated.
Again, good work.
Yeah it been quite and experience, I knew nothing about rotary engines 3 years ago and I have been dealing with everything problem you could imagine along the way (currently dealing with two bad coil packs that are only a year old, new ones on the way). This whole swap started when I had to pull the motor to repair a front main seal and front cover gasket on the MSP that was leaking oil all over the place, and decided it was too much trouble to put the stock motor back in.
I do not have any logs before water/methanol injection. Well I actually do have logs, but the factory rx8 IAT sensor is garbage and the logs make no sense. It wasn't until I installed the Triumph IAT sensor that I could log any data that made sense. Consequently, I installed the new IAT sensor at the same time as I installed the water/methanol injection system.
I am not worried about my turbo getting pitted as it seems that it takes tens of thousands of miles to do any real damage. It is likely that my turbo will not last that long anyway, so if my turbo should last 50k only to be ruined by injection I would consider that a win. I will probably be upgrading to a bigger turbo sooner rather than later.
I don't have a fail-safe. I have a light mounted on my dash that is green when the system is operating normally, and will flash or go red if the tank is near empty or the system is not working. Also, since I am only really shooting 375 cc/min of methanol, and I am using upwards of 5,000 cc/min of gasoline near red line at 20 psi, even without the methanol I would be losing only 8% or so of total fuel. Since I use water/methanol for safety only, my ignition timing is conservative. I tune at max boost and RPM for around 10.8:1. Even if the methanol kit stopped and I didn't know it, I may only lose a half point or point of fuel. Since I am constantly reviewing every log I generate, I would probably see that the AFR was somewhere in the mid-11's and fix it.
The v-mount is probably unnecessary and is in a less than ideal location, but it easier to just leave it hooked up and act as additional cooling.
Last edited by strokercharged95gt; 01-31-2018 at 05:07 PM.
The two new D585 coils packs I received were installed and are working properly. The two failed coil packs appear to be genuine ACDelco, and I am sending them back to Amazon to for a refund as they are only 10 months old (1 year warranty). Until the second coil pack gave out on the leading plug, I wonder how long the trailing was out on the other rotor.
Gonna put some new AR3932 plugs in, and up the jet in the pre-turbo location to 500 cc/min and see what that gets me. I was shocked to read a post on rx7 where a member was injecting something like 1,600 cc/min pre-turbo of water only on his 700hp REW. So I think I should have no problem with 500 cc/min total of water. With the good working coils and .025 gaps in the next plugs, the ignition system should be up to it.
Was able to get one of these cheap $20 spectre filters that has a 1-inch diameter metal disc at the end which I drilled and tapped for a 1/8 NPT. Nozzle fits right in and sprays a fine mist right in front of the compressor blades.
Last edited by strokercharged95gt; 02-03-2018 at 09:05 AM.
Got some new stuff. Got the car tuned on 500cc/min water and 500 cc/min meth (1000 cc/min total at 22 psi, slightly less at 20 psi).
Just a third gear roll. Didn't have the sack to keep the revs up to 8k as I would be just over 100mph. With the windows closed and my quiet exhaust system, the car doesn't really sound like its moving. IAT went up about 16F during the run. It appears that I am at the point of diminishing returns as far as keep the temps down. Hitting 20 psi now, I would assume I should be close to the 500 hp number.
Last edited by strokercharged95gt; 02-04-2018 at 07:44 AM.
I'm not looking for a $1000 speeding ticket, a night in jail, and a court date. A stock rx8 will do 150 mph, how many times a day do you do 150 mph on a city street? If not, why?
I'll do you a favor, I'll remove all the movies so it doesn't bother you so much.
Last edited by strokercharged95gt; 02-04-2018 at 07:44 AM.
Just a quick update on some issues that I'm dealing with. Lately while running WOT in the upper RPMs in third gear and let off I am not just getting fire, but fire and explosions, like someone is setting fireworks off in the exhaust, at night my rear window lights up orange. It sometimes will last 3-4 seconds like I'm on the 2 step. It may just be an exhaust leak or bad connection. The worst part about it is that my exhaust points over in the lane next to me, so it is dangerous to anyone is near it. I'm likely going to have to redo the exhaust and do a turn down type coming straight out the rear to hide/keep the flames aimed at the ground.
Secondly, i'm up at 22 psi on the turbo and feel like i'm at the point of diminishing return for this turbo, and don't wanna keep pushing it higher for nominal gains. I'm probably near the point where the .91 housing make be choking things and I don't wanna jack up the EGTs. Since these BW turbos are so cheap, I am thinking about stepping up to a 366 or 369. Is there any other turbo I should be looking at?
Last edited by strokercharged95gt; 02-21-2018 at 03:04 PM.
Just a quick update on some issues that I'm dealing with. Lately while running WOT in the upper RPMs in third gear and let off I am not just getting fire, but fire and explosions, like someone is setting fireworks off in the exhaust, at night my rear window lights up orange. It sometimes will last 3-4 seconds like I'm on the 2 step. It may just be an exhaust leak or bad connection. The worst part about it is that my exhaust points over in the lane next to me, so it is dangerous to anyone is near it. I'm likely going to have to redo the exhaust and do a turn down type coming straight out the rear to hide/keep the flames aimed at the ground.
Secondly, i'm up at 22 psi on the turbo and feel like i'm at the point of diminishing return for this turbo, and don't wanna keep pushing it higher for nominal gains. I'm probably near the point where the .91 housing make be choking things and I don't wanna jack up the EGTs. Since these BW turbos are so cheap, I am thinking about stepping up to a 366 or 369. Is there any other turbo I should be looking at?
Sounds to me like you can't really use more power so why upgrade power and downgrade spool ? A real upgrade for you would be the efr8374 . Similar power but much better spoolup.
Just a quick update on some issues that I'm dealing with. Lately while running WOT in the upper RPMs in third gear and let off I am not just getting fire, but fire and explosions, like someone is setting fireworks off in the exhaust, at night my rear window lights up orange. It sometimes will last 3-4 seconds like I'm on the 2 step. It may just be an exhaust leak or bad connection. The worst part about it is that my exhaust points over in the lane next to me, so it is dangerous to anyone is near it. I'm likely going to have to redo the exhaust and do a turn down type coming straight out the rear to hide/keep the flames aimed at the ground.
Secondly, i'm up at 22 psi on the turbo and feel like i'm at the point of diminishing return for this turbo, and don't wanna keep pushing it higher for nominal gains. I'm probably near the point where the .91 housing make be choking things and I don't wanna jack up the EGTs. Since these BW turbos are so cheap, I am thinking about stepping up to a 366 or 369. Is there any other turbo I should be looking at?
The flames are a tuning thing. It loads up when the throttle closes and then burns off in the exhaust. Look at what your maps do for decel and when the throttle closes. If you are fat for safety in the boost range you are running, going to have that happen.
I love my 369
The flames are a tuning thing. It loads up when the throttle closes and then burns off in the exhaust. Look at what your maps do for decel and when the throttle closes. If you are fat for safety in the boost range you are running, going to have that happen.
I love my 369
After I let off, all fuel is cut. But just before I let off, my AFRs are in the 10.5-11.0 range and it just takes a second to burn all of that extra fuel off. Like you said, it just may be something I have to deal with so fixing the exhaust to point down and directly behind the car is the safest way. Also that will hopefully keep me somewhat below the police radar.
To Brettus point, as far as power goes, the Mickey Thompson's have been able to take all the power I can give them. I have not tried to launch the car hard yet due to the stock rear end/axles, but once the car is moving I have not dealt with any wheel spin whatsoever (boost limited in 1st to 12 psi, 2nd to 18 psi). The car could take more power in 3rd and 4th gear. Eventually the extra boost on the 362 will choke the .91 housing, increase EGT's, and cause spark blowout/misfires (already injecting 500 cc/min water). As far as the 8374, the max flow rate is 79 lb/min and the S362 is like 76 lb/min, doesn't seem like a big enough difference to be worth the effort in the search for more power.
If I switched to a S369, any idea what my spool would look like? On the 362, I'm at 10 psi by 3700, and 20 psi by 4,600....
Would it be easier on the motor to run 17-18 psi on a 369 vs 22+ on a 362? Would the .91 housing on the 369 be optimum for boost below 20 psi?
Thanks for the responses, I am just brainstorming for my next move.
Last edited by strokercharged95gt; 02-21-2018 at 05:41 PM.
As far as the 8374, the max flow rate is 79 lb/min and the S362 is like 76 lb/min, doesn't seem like a big enough difference to be worth the effort in the search for more power.
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Still say the efr8374 is a much better way to go. Go with the 1.05 twin scroll and get 20psi at below 3500 a little extra flow and lower backpressure . People have made over 600whp with that setup and have lightning spoolup to go with it . Read up on the r7 forum about it ...it seems to be the best 13b turbo ever built according to them.
Going to a bigger turbo you probably should go with a bigger AR as well = sluggish spool and a turbo that makes too much torque for the rest of your drivetrain.
Still say the efr8374 is a much better way to go. Go with the 1.05 twin scroll and get 20psi at below 3500 a little extra flow and lower backpressure . People have made over 600whp with that setup and have lightning spoolup to go with it . Read up on the r7 forum about it ...it seems to be the best 13b turbo ever built according to them.
Going to a bigger turbo you probably should go with a bigger AR as well = sluggish spool and a turbo that makes too much torque for the rest of your drivetrain.
You may have me sold on an EFR, I may take the leap into one soon. I may want to redo my downpipe and exhaust to all 3.5" to get the most of it.
Took the car out this morning for some fun. Temp was 60 degrees so things were a tad leaner than normal. I am attempting to get my tip in fuel richer by adding asynchronous gain and adding predicted MAP values. I still am seeing values a little lean (12.5:1) after changing gears, but the values get back to just under 11:1 or so as the run progresses. I am not getting any negative effects (pings) from running slightly lean for a brief time so I am wondering if this is something I should even worry about?
Log at 140 asynchronous gain
Here is another log, this time at 180 asynchronous gain. Not much difference.
Last edited by strokercharged95gt; 03-04-2018 at 12:02 PM.
01-06-2018, 02:14 AM
