When you click on links to various merchants on this site and make a purchase, this can result in this site earning a commission. Affiliate programs and affiliations include, but are not limited to, the eBay Partner Network.
Update: Fuel system complete. Surge tank never drops. Fuel pressure is exactly where it should be, was around 52 psi at 12 psi on the turbo. I also added a 10 micron fuel filter between the pump and the fuel rail. I now have to pull a bunch of fuel out of the map about 5,000 RPMs to fix the rich AFRs. The Bosch 044 is loud, but not obnoxious. If I ever need more pump, I can easily add a second fuel pump and connect the relay to my water injection pump, which kicks in at 9 psi. I Should have just got the polished surge tank as the slightest fuel touching the surface has stained it (I wanted it to be as low profile as possible). Time to try and blow this thing up now.
I'd be more worried about exhaust heat and the potential for a leak to end up on the exhaust.
I have an 044 as well...and it does sound a bit like a blender...but haven't had fuel delivery issues up to 550whp with just a single pump on E85. You should be good with gasoline
It just looks really exposed to potential damage, but maybe the pic doesn't do it justice.
From the one picture it looks like its poking out and vulnerable, but its actually 6 inches behind the rear crash beam. Its located where the stock muffler would be located on the driver side. I have seen people in the mustang community mount their external pump to the outside of the crash beam, which I always thought was crazy.
As for the exhaust pipe, that is also about 6-7 inches away from the surge tank. I am going to add a layer of heavy exhaust wrap on the exposed pipe near the tank as insurance. I took the car out yesterday and did some tuning at 12 psi. I was logging pulls from 3-7k with AFR ratios all between 10.8-11.2 with no spikes of any kind. The new fuel system is making tuning way more consistent. I feel like the past months of tuning have all been wasted now.
My plan for now it to get it tuned back up to 20 psi. I still have a 5-speed transmission sitting on my garage floor ready to go in. Maybe will have to do some motor upgrades when the tranny comes out.
in addition to the adapter, they also have a steel scattershield bellhousing option listed
I still have the 5-speed rx8 tranny and an FD tranny on my garage floor that I need to go through before moving to a Tremec.
While the transmission is out, I'm wondering if I should just bite the bullet and upgrade to a Turblown stud kit and throw some Goopy or RA seals in the motor for insurance. I'd rather spend 1k now than 3k later. Even with methanol/WI and a safe tune, will the stock studs and atkins seals hold?
I still have the 5-speed rx8 tranny and an FD tranny on my garage floor that I need to go through before moving to a Tremec.
While the transmission is out, I'm wondering if I should just bite the bullet and upgrade to a Turblown stud kit and throw some Goopy or RA seals in the motor for insurance. I'd rather spend 1k now than 3k later. Even with methanol/WI and a safe tune, will the stock studs and atkins seals hold?
So far I haven't had a problem with the RX-8 5 speed with around 500whp. If it die's just swap in the bellhousing and tailshaft on the FD center section and you are good again
Personally not a big Atkins seal fan...but unless you start loosing compression don't see a lot of point in redoing the short block
At that HP level the block should be plenty strong enough. A crappy tune will kill it real quick...but making the studs/block stronger wont help the motor survive that anyway. I have seen 1000hp 2 rotors with almost no block changes survive well....and "fully" dowelled and studded blocks break at 500 or less.
Took the car out today, and did some tuning up to 18 psi. With the steady fuel pressure, I am able to keep the AFR between 10.7-11.0 throughout the majority of the pull. Car feels really fast, wasn't able to run it out to 8k as I has some obstructions on my closed private road. I am making 10 psi by about 4,300 on this run, and full boost by 5,000 (total timing around 14). I may have to stack both the high and low spring in the wastegate to build boost a little sooner (mac valve starts fluctuating at 8 psi). Its not terrible that the boost doesn't all hit at once as it helps keep the tires planted.
Here is a log of a 3rd gear pull.
Last edited by strokercharged95gt; 09-08-2017 at 07:24 PM.
I have been trying to lock down a tune at 20 psi. I have been getting knock (sometimes audible, sometimes not) from 5,000 and up. I immediately lift when I hear it. Adding fuel seems to make it worse. Reducing the timing doesn't seem to have an effect. I have mixed in 8 oz of Torco in my gas in case it was a octane thing. I changed the spark plugs. I never seemed to have these issues before the methanol/water injection system with a less safe tune. The only thing I can think of is that I am injecting too much water which is choking the motor up. I am currently giving the motor approximately 150cc/min methanol and 350 cc/min of water @ 20 psi as set by the controller.
I am thinking of moving to a 50/50 methanol/water mixture and maybe adding a second nozzle to get a better spray pattern. If anyone has any suggestions let me know. Here is my datalog from an event after adding Torco to my fuel.
Knocking or Missing? You must be damn fast if you are reacting in the time frame that log shows...
I heard the scraping metal sound and lifted instantly on that run. I hope its just breaking up, and the knock values are some backfires on decel. I'm not sure if the knock events are delayed slightly, but you can see that the timing is already pulled 1.5 degrees on the first knock event. I don't know what to make of it, but I'd rather be safe than sorry. With injecting the methanol and running the Torco, I am probably nearing 100 octane. I am waiting on some boost juice to arrive to my house, my plan is too run 250 cc/min of water and 250 cc/min of methanol. It should make it a little easier to resist misfires (less water). Next I will try a second nozzle nearer the turbo. After that, I'm not sure what more to try.
Here is another log, but I don't really like this one because this is a pull with a ton of tire spin (boost is low, 1 sec from 4-7k).
Last edited by strokercharged95gt; 09-23-2017 at 03:19 PM.
The motor is gone I can't get into the details of it due to forum rules, but again had a ton of knock at 6500 RPMs and didn't get off it in time. Knock values were higher with 50/50 mixture. I was also running about 8oz of Torco in a half tank of fuel and spraying 250ml meth/250 ml/min water. Timing was conservative, and air/fuel was dead on (10.8-11.0). Ran a compression test and the rear chamber is fine, but the front is only at 70 psi. Pulses on the front seemed a little weaker, but I could not tell if it was a side seal or apex. The vacuum is like 12-13 and the car idles like a v8 with a cam. Car still starts, runs, and drives. If I has to guess an apex seal may be warped.
I'm not sure where to go with this car. I could rebuild the motor, but if I cant get the motor to stop knocking in the upper RPMs with 100 octane fuel and methanol/water injection what's the point? I will pull the motor when I get some time to see the post mortem.
Here is a graph of exactly when the motor went (note the extreme timing pull on knock), enjoy!
Edit - After looking back at this post from 2019, I think the motor blew from pre-ignition related to running too hot of a heat range plug in the trailing position. I think I was running 9/9, now I am running 10/11.
Last edited by strokercharged95gt; 06-08-2019 at 10:58 AM.
for the transmission you can use a 350zHR/370zHR trans collins adapters cd-009 make sure its a second gen they can be had for pretty cheap only thing is you have to source an auto cosmo/20b bell housing but a good strong 6-speed trans just presenting another option.
E85 as an octane additive works way better than water/Meth .... bit late for that now I guess.
The nearest e85 station is 35 miles away from my house, so that's not happening. I am really convinced that this has nothing to do with octane. I have run 15-16 psi with 15-16 of total timing with straight 93 octane and no knock... now at 20 psi and 12 degrees with methanol, water, and torco and it knocks? When the ecu starts pulling timing to reduce knock, it doesn't help, only my lifting.
I am convinced that my adaptronics is still not fully aligned to my motor even after doing their aligning procedure. If I had to guess, it's not a timing too advanced scenario, but timing too retarded. EGTs have to be climbing extremely high and causing havoc. I will have to put a EGT probe in the front rotor primary to verify. I have never seen my manifold glowing or anything, but maybe to the sheer thickness 2" diameter with a .165 wall it would take much more WOT to get it glowing.
Could I be on the right track? Let me know how my logic is flawed, or maybe more evidence to support my theory?
I just have to disconnect the tranny from the motor and it will be out shortly, my next day off is next Saturday (my company is integral in hurricane irma response) so I won't have answers for a bit...
Update: I hope people enjoy my struggles. Good news. One apex seal (Atkins) on the front rotor was the culprit. The rotor and housing have no sign off damage. The crack in the apex seal was so small, it appears that the apex debris made it through without tearing anything up. The bearings all look to be in good shape.
I did find evidence of some motor oil in the intake tract from what appears to be from the brand new borg warner turbo (120 psi oil pressure at WOT). What are the odds that a bit of oil is making into the engine and causing the knock? I am still convinced that it is a timing issue.
Anyways what apex seals would you all recommend. I care little about longevity of the rotor housings as this is a toy and I don't care if I only get 10-20k miles on a rebuild??
My plan now is to Bridgeport the irons (assuming I didn't go to aggressive on the street-port), put some next apex seals in, do some more exhaust porting, and get the car up and running again. Should I go for the turblown stud kit while the motor is in surgery?
Sorry to hear about the bad luck. I too know the pain. Funny thing is one of my engines that let go was using Atkins seals as well and it did the same thing. Zero damage to anything. Just a broken seal. Mazda seals on the other hand took out my turbo, housing, and rotor. In my experience... no Atkins and no Mazda apex seals. Currently running Goopy Seals. About +/- 500 miles on the engine. So I can't say much yet. But heard good things about Goopy. Great guys and at good prices.
PS.
I've been using turblown stud kit since day one of my swap. 5 years ago. They have been great to me.
The nearest e85 station is 35 miles away from my house, so that's not happening. I am really convinced that this has nothing to do with octane.
.
It may be that some issue other than octane caused the detonation that took out the apex . But I still say you are better off using e85 as an octane boost additive than the concoction you were running . I settled on 30% ethanol in my setup and have found that is way better than any w/m combo I tried before that . Worth 35 mile trip armed with a few jerrycans ....... IMO
Looking for some advice on porting. I have ported my exhaust ports out to the EPA-4A template from Pineapple, so I have added significant exhaust ports (51 mm x 35mm).
I purchased the Pineapple BP template as I plan on doing a half-bridge. The relief port pretty much mirrors the length of the secondary port. I also see other templates that only use a relief port that is half the length of the secondary port (partial BP). As I understand it, the full length relief port will give significantly more overlap, which will product less vacuum and require higher idle. Use of the relief port that is half the length of the secondary port (open later), will reduce overlap, produce more vacuum, and idle somewhere between a full length bridge and a streetport. I hate the idea of idling around at 1800-2000 especially with the temperature in Florida putting the cooling system on the edge.
Is doing the conservative relief port (starting further from the exhaust port) worth it? Or should I just sack up and do the full length BP?
I already have all the gaskets and my new RA Super Seals waiting to go in once I make a decision on the intake ports.
Update: Well I went ahead and shortened the relief port by 20mm (32mm instead of 52mm). More of a partial bridge with a bit less overlap. I did a minor notching on the rotor housing. Next rebuild I can always make the port larger. I kept the bridge on the wide side. Still waiting on the mail man to deliver my new RA super seals. Hopefully they will show up and I can get the motor back together tonight.
Last edited by strokercharged95gt; 10-21-2017 at 02:09 PM.
09-05-2017, 07:22 PM
I can't get into the details of it due to forum rules, but again had a ton of knock at 6500 RPMs and didn't get off it in time. Knock values were higher with 50/50 mixture. I was also running about 8oz of Torco in a half tank of fuel and spraying 250ml meth/250 ml/min water. Timing was conservative, and air/fuel was dead on (10.8-11.0). Ran a compression test and the rear chamber is fine, but the front is only at 70 psi. Pulses on the front seemed a little weaker, but I could not tell if it was a side seal or apex. The vacuum is like 12-13 and the car idles like a v8 with a cam. Car still starts, runs, and drives. If I has to guess an apex seal may be warped.
