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I was expecting a chamfered type v-band flange on the turbine, but it is squared (never seen it before). However, I spoke with Boostlab this morning and he says that I can use a conventional type v-band flange on the downpipe side and it should fit (weird that a vband would hold tight two different flanges). The turbine flange also sits roughly 1/2" rearward which makes fitting my existing downpipe impossible. I will have to cut off about 1/2" and re-weld.
You can see in the first pic (just in front of the strut brace) the flange shape. It may be normal to BW, but I have always used Precisions. In the pictures the turbo is sitting a 1/2" forward and a 1" to the driver side of the final mounting position.
Last edited by strokercharged95gt; 07-03-2017 at 08:37 PM.
Well I learned a valuable lesson on making a downpipe, always leave a few inches of straight pipe off of the v-band flange in case you have to shorten or lengthen it in the future. My original downpipe made a 45 degree angle immediately after the v-band flange making it impossible to cut the 0.5-inch off of the downpipe and get anything to line back up. Instead of making two cuts and one weld, I had to make about 7 cuts and 6 welds. I may just redo the down-pipe in the future with 3.5" tubing and an open downpipe.
So first thoughts on the new turbo, I did end up putting a 0.075 restrictor inline. I spoke with the guys at Boostlab and they said with 120 psi oil pressure that i could run anything over 0.06" and would be okay.
I drove the car around for about 20 minutes for a brief break-in. The first time I gave it part throttle in the mid-RPMs she came online. I hit overboost (17 psi) almost immediately when the turbo was ramping up. This turbo is loud! I have always owned Precisions, and the borg warner is not even on the same level of noise. I wasn't taking the car over about 6000 RPMs because I wanted to make sure my VE fuel table was dialed in with the new snail. Based on my logs, I am getting 10 psi by about 4300 RPMs and full boost not much after that (hard to tell tires are breaking loose). With it being over 90 degrees when I took the car out yesterday I noticed AITs were hovering around 120 F.
I am going to try and hook up the 2-step and launch control next. After that maybe a trunk mounted meth/water injection system. I have a AIS system on my mustang, but am looking at the Devils Own vs AEM for the 8. Anyone have any suggestions on which system is more reliable or better designed for rotary's? I run 50/50 mix on my mustang, looking to run more of a 25 meth/75 water on the 8.
Last edited by strokercharged95gt; 05-17-2017 at 07:31 AM.
Update: Been running upwards of 17 PSI with my new turbo and have been slowly increasing timing (mid teens total timing at full boost) and not seeing any knock values or bad sounds from the motor. I am at the point where I don't have the guts to turn it up any higher without some additional safety.
Getting ready to order my WI system. I think I have narrowed it down to the Devils Own Kit with the 2 gallon trunk-mounted kit. I like this kit because it comes with a built in 2 bar MAP sensor which will make installation much easier since my car is using the internal map sensor from the Adaptronics unit. The kit comes with a 370 ml/min and a 640 ml/min nozzle. I plan on running 4:1 (water/meth) to keep influence of A/F ratio to a minimum while getting some octane help. The D585 coils should be up to the task.
I have two questions. Which nozzle would be best at around 500 HP? Second, I would like to monitor IATs in Adaptronics which uses the MAF/IAT housing as reference, so in order to actually data-log the effects of cooling I would have to shoot the injection pre-MAF which is a no-no on cars that use transfer functions for fuel calculations, but since Adaptronics uses speed density, will this be okay? The only thing I can think of that may be an issue is just off WOT and some residual water may be affecting the sensor as the car goes back to idle.... Any thoughts on this? I like the idea of being able to read datalogs of the IATs to see if the injection is properly working.
May I ask how you set up your timing in the beginning and found TDC? being that the Rx8 Trigger wheel is different than that of the REW.
No problem. I am using the Rx8 trigger wheel and rx8 front cover.
I first had to unlock trigger settings in WARI and select custom trigger to unlock the offset angles.
I clicked the locked timing at 15 BTDC and -5/-20 under 13B.
I set my timing gun onto the front leading plug.
By hitting up or down on your offset trigger angles, align the white mark on the rx8 trigger wheel with the embossed point on the rx8 front cover (its like the 12:30 position from the front main seal).
When its aligned, remove the locked timing at 15 BTDC and -5/-20 under 13B.
Adaptronics should now be aligned with your motor.
I hope this is what you were looking for. Car runs smooth with no knock, so I assume I did it correctly.
Last edited by strokercharged95gt; 06-30-2017 at 08:55 PM.
Methanol/Water Injection system will be arriving tomorrow. I hope to get it all installed this weekend.
I would like to get to my local 1/8th mile track sometime soon to see what kind of speed I can push this car at its current state. The biggest issue now is traction, I can't keep this car planted in 1st, second, or third once the motor get above 5500-6000 RPMs. I would like to eventually go 18x12 on the rear with 315 drag radials, but this would require alot of fender modification. For now I'm looking for a simpler solution. I would love to run a 15 inch wheel with big sidewall drag radials, but I know that with the GT package I am relegated to 17-inch wheels minimum (I have read). Anyone have any ideas on the best solution to be able to get some tire under this car with some sidewall wrinkle?
I still am running the 6 speed rx8 tranny and fully expect to blow this thing up sooner rather than later (maybe first hard shift at the track)...
Yes, any FD3 R&P or LSD is a direct bolt-in for the RX8 diff and vice versa
Are you talking about swapping the entire differential case and all, or just the gearset? If I can swap the whole thing, should I just be looking for differential housing out of an automatic FD?
I can't believe how expensive gears are for imports. It may just be cheaper to put on the 5-speed transmission ($500) and put two fat tires on the back then to pay $1,000 for a 3.90 gearset
I have actually spent the last hour crunching a bunch of numbers to determine which way is best to lengthen my gears to keep the wheel spin and torque down.
As its stand now with a 4.44 FD, 25" OD Wheels ,6 Speed tranny, and 8,000 RPMs, the MPH is 35 (1), 59 (2), 82 (3), 114 (4), 134 (5), 159 (6)
With 4.44 FD, 26.7" OD Wheels, 6 Speed Tranny, and 8,000 RPMs, the MPH is 38 (1), 63 (2), 87 (3), 122 (4), 143 (5), 170 (6)
With 4.44 FD, 25" OD Wheels, 5 Speed Tranny, and 8,000 RPMs, the MPH is 38 (1), 67 (2), 96 (3), 134 (4), 186 (5)
With 4.44 FD, 26.7" OD Wheels, 5 Speed Tranny, and 8,000 RPMs, the MPH is 41 (1), 71 (2), 103 (3), 143 (4), 199 (5)
So in short if I swap from the 6-speed to 5-speed transmission, and swap from my current tires 225/40/18 to some 245/45/18 POTENZA RE-71R (26.7" OD)
My shift points would go from:
1st Gear - 35 mph to 41 mph
2nd Gear - 59 mph to 71 mph
3rd Gear - 82 mph to 103 mph
4th Gear - 114 mph to 143 mph
5th Gear - 134 mph to 199 mph
Since I would like to shoot for mid to high 90s (mph) in the 1/8th mile, and you should not be going into 4th gear in the 1/8th, having 3rd gear winding out near 100 mph is probably a good thing. For the 1/4 mile that 4th gear will likely be dismal though at 143 mph (assuming to be somewhere in the low to mid 120s).
Anyways, $450 for new tires and $500 for a tranny would see a better way to go then spending $1k on a gearset. feel free to shoot down my logic...
Last edited by strokercharged95gt; 07-07-2017 at 12:11 PM.
Completed install of the methanol/WI kit, tried to post a pic of it running (with the injector out of the intake), but photobucket is so terrible. I made an aluminum bracket to hold the tank just right in the trunk so that I could easily refill, but be out of the way. I installed the status light in the gauge pod so I can monitor the kit without having to see the controller. I currently have the 1000cc injector in with activation at 5 psi and full injection at 25 psi. Therefore, if I am around 20 psi, I should be injecting around 750cc/min. I plan on using windshield wiper fluid that is around 33% methanol. I still have to install my triumph AIT sensor in the UIM and splice the sensor into the rx8 harness. This way I will be able to monitor the intake temps about 18 inches after the WI nozzle in adaptronics.
I have a RX8 5-speed tranny that is on the way. I still have a FD tranny that came with my $1350 junkyard REW motor. Should I just run the 5 speed tranny, or bolt the tail and bellhousing onto the FD tranny and run that? Is there much difference? I also will probably be ordering MH Drag Radials 245/40/18 for the stock rx8 wheels. I want to keep this car as sleeper as possible.
Last edited by strokercharged95gt; 07-09-2017 at 10:11 AM.
Glen, I am not sure how to send you pictures through a private message. So as requested, you'll notice that the Rx8 front cover won't fit over the front REW counterweight as the Rx8 counterweight sinks into the rx8 front iron. I did this work about 2 years+ ago so forgive me if I don't remember everything just right. Also, all of these measurements are from memory so I would use them as a guide and not as a rule.
You will need to remove the plate in the rx8 front cover (pic below) and either machine off or carefully grind off about 15-20 mm of aluminum from this area all the way back to the edge of counterweight (imagine that the counterweight will have to sweep through this area). Once you think you have ground off enough, clean the cover and mount to your REW front iron with counterweight attached. If you turn the motor over and the counterweight catches on the front cover, you know haven't cleared enough. At this point I had already rebuilt my engine so I was able to keep going checking clearance every time I ground off a little more. You will likely find that you will get thin in some important areas near the edge of the cover. You can always add some aluminum filler in those areas after everything has been clearanced. You should also be able to tell where the counterweight has caught the front cover because it will make a mark in the soft aluminum.
Once you have clearanced the front cover and can rotate the motor freely with the front cover bolted on, you will have to weld the two oil galleys underneath the plate that you removed in step 1. Since you have cut off oil flow through the front cover, you will need to install an external oil line to reconnect the passage. You will need to drill and tap fittings onto the exterior of front cover and run a small braided line to connect these two points. I think I used -3AN fitting and line. You can see from the picture below what it should look like with the front cover mounted with the air conditioning compressor removed. As a bonus, you can also see where I had begun to remove the sliver of extra material front the front iron in order to fit the rx8 air conditioner to the REW motor.
I think earlier in this post I described that you will have to remove one of the studs of the front REW iron in order to seat the rx8 cover on the REW motor so please do that before trying to attached the rx8 cover. Also, you will find that one of the bolts that goes into the rx8 front cover will be misaligned with the REW front iron. You can leave this bolt out (as I did) or maybe have a machine shop add threads to the front iron. There may not be enough material to do this operation. As stated above, I left this bolt out and have had no issues.
There may be more operations I'm forgetting about, but this should give you a good idea what is involved in order to use the RX8 front cover. I hope this makes sense. After seeing issues with other swaps, I really think its the way to go. This way you can use the rx8 trigger wheel and CPS, all of the rx8 accessories which are 10-15 years newer including the already charged and working ac compressor.
Update: After years of looking back on this post, this mod appears to be totally unnecessary. I run a front cover without this mod and no issues...
Last edited by strokercharged95gt; 06-08-2019 at 10:53 AM.
I picked up one of these, from somewhere, to aid in rewiring for the REW IAT sensor. After you wire in a pigtail for the sensor, on the IAT wires, it is a nice plug and play affair.
I picked up one of these, from somewhere, to aid in rewiring for the REW IAT sensor. After you wire in a pigtail for the sensor, on the IAT wires, it is a nice plug and play affair.
Nice I paid 15 dollars for a used triumph motorcycle IAT fast acting sensor on ebay. I am going to swap it in the same location as the REW IAT (upper intake manifold). The triumph IAT sensor uses a standard bosch EV1 pigtail and I will wire that into the harness at the mass air meter. The voltages on the triumph sensor are supposed to be nearly identical to the REW IAT sensor, so hopefully I can simply input those values into adaptronics for correction without having to manually do it. I have just been lazy to pull the intake manifold. I will probably get to it next weekend, and should be able to post some IAT graphs of before and after water/meth injection.
Update. First off I found when I removed by intake manifold that one of the vacuum plugs had blown off the manifold causing a vacuum leak. I fixed the leak and since I tuned the car with the hidden vacuum leak, I had to retune the entire VE table. I am up to 15 psi and still have to tune the next few rows up to 22 psi. The good thing is that I was able to pull a lot of fuel out of the original map.
I installed the Triumph sensor in the UIM. I had to do a lot of calibrating to get sensor dialed in. I noticed right away that due to the location in the manifold that it records heat soak considerable more than the previous location in the MAF housing that was between the inter-cooler and throttle body. I actually like the location better because it gives you a more accurate snapshot of the air entering the motor.
For water injection, I mixed 4 bottles (48 oz) of yellow heet (99% methanol) with 80 oz of distilled water, so around 1:2 ratio. I logged a 0-80 mph sprint through the first three gears (on a closed private road) to datalog IAT and how the injection keeps the temps down. With a 80 degree ambient air temp I am seeing a 100-130 UIM temp. Obviously, temps are high at idle and lower with lower RPM cruising. As you can see from the log below, I was around 118 degrees at the start of the pull and was about 115 degrees a few seconds after letting off around 7,000 RPMs in 3rd gear (peak temp hit 124). You can see the lean spots near the end of 1st and 2nd gear when the tires began spinning. My new transmission is in my garage waiting to be installed. Anyways, in this run I was injecting around 50% pump on the 1,000 cc/min nozzle, so somewhere around 500 cc/min. I will keep playing around with the injection controller to see if I can drop the temps even more without killing spark. I not sure whether I want to turn it up much over 15 psi as the car just skates all over the road. I hope that with the longer 5 speed gears I will be able to run 18 psi with minimal tire spin.
Last edited by strokercharged95gt; 07-21-2017 at 08:37 PM.
Bored tonight so I figured I would give a rundown of my modifications so far so anyone looking to do the swap can see all what is required.
Engine
Junkyard REW motor
Refurbished Rotor Housings with EPA-4 Exhaust Ports
Pineapple Bridgeported Iron (32mm x 5mm relief port)
Atkins Full Rebuild Kit
RA 2mm Super Seals
Excessive LIM w/4 injector bungs
Ported REW UIM
RX8 Front Cover (modified for REW)
RX8 Throttle Body
RX8 CAS and Trigger Wheel
Banzai REW Mount
Banzai Low Profile Oil Pan
REW Motor Mounts
Vented Crankcase through CXRacing Oil Filler Neck
Turbo
Borg Warner S362SXE 62/68 w/0.91 AR Housing
4 AN Feed/ 10 AN Drain
2" Mild Steel Weld Els Turbo Manifold (Schwartz design)
3" 14 Gauge Mild Steel Downpipe
50mm JGS Wastegate w/10 PSI spring
HKS BOV
Mishimoto Intercooler
Freelance Turbo Oil Pressure Mod
Fuel System
ID 725cc P1 Injectors
ID 1000cc P2 Injectors
ID 1000cc Secondary Injectors
Fuelab FPR w/analog gauge
8 AN Feed/6 AN Return
Series 2 Fuel Pump Canister
3L Surge Tank
Bosch 044 External Fuel Pump
10 Micron Fuelab Filter
FFE Fuel Rails (4 injector secondary rail)
Electronics
Adaptronics Select ECU
Prosport Gauges (AFR, Fuel Pressure, Oil Pressure, Boost, Water Temp, Oil Temp)
AEM Water Injection Kit (MAP Controlled)
3 Port Mac Valve (boost control)
D585 Coils
Custom MSD Wires
Autolite 3932 Plugs (0.025" gap)
Triumph Fast Acting IAT Senor
Update: After driving the car around for an hour yesterday and doing some WOT sprints, I have noticed that fuel pressure is not keeping up with demand. I'm not sure if it gets worse when the pump heats up or the canister is getting dry or a combination, but changes need to be made. The issues were happening with a 3/4 full tank, so this isn't a low level fueling issue. I have base fuel set around 40psi, just after the turbo hits 18-20 psi the pressure spikes up to 55-60 psi (which is expected) then quickly falls back to 35-40 psi. I immediately lift when AFR spikes to 12.5:1. Lucky I am feeding about 300 cc/min of methanol to supplement this lack of fuel. It seems like the problem has gotten worse, probably because I have been pushing the car harder. FYI i do not have these issues at 15 psi or below (I do have some pressure drop, but not as extreme).
I realize that upgrading to a series 2 canister would be an option, but the cost of a new fuel pump assembly and surge tank may be about the same price ($300-$400). I have decided that a surge tank and external fuel pump (keep heat lower) may be the better first step. Before jumping to a $500-$1000 dollar surge tank, I will try out a Chinese knockoff 3L surge tank for $45. Its only 6 pieces of aluminum and 5 bungs. I can always upgrade later if needed. I also do not want to go with dual fuel pumps, I'm worried that it will just put too much heat in the fuel. I am looking at doing a -10AN feed from the surge tank to a 380lph AEM external pump ($150) then using -6AN pressure tubing forward to the fuel rail and everywhere else throughout the system. I should be able to get this all up and going for around $350-$400 with all the fitting tubing required. I will leave the current Aeromotive 340lph in the tank to feed the surge tank. I see some people using -8AN and -10AN feed lines, but this seems like overkill with pressure in the lines upwards of 50-60psi.
Other than comments about not wanting to spend 1k on a surge tank and being cheap, any suggestions on design or line sizing I am missing. I would not like to have to redo things I they can be avoided.
Last edited by strokercharged95gt; 07-31-2017 at 07:41 AM.
Sounds like a good plan. The only thing I am wondering is why the fuel pressure drops off in the first place. Just make sure that the pump is OK. Even if it is being used as a low pressure feed pump it still needs to function optimally.
How do you have the return plumbed? How are you planning to run it off the surge tank? Using the OEM hardline as the return?
Sounds like a good plan. The only thing I am wondering is why the fuel pressure drops off in the first place. Just make sure that the pump is OK. Even if it is being used as a low pressure feed pump it still needs to function optimally.
How do you have the return plumbed? How are you planning to run it off the surge tank? Using the OEM hardline as the return?
Yeah I share the same thoughts on the pump, it has only a few thousand miles on it and the first one I bought was DOA. I guess I would find out really quickly if the in tank pump was not filling the surge tank. The 340lph pump is only a $100 dollars, so I could replace if necessary. I tend to keep the fuel tank above 1/2 full in an attempt to keep fuel/pump temps down.
The issue has seemed to get worse as I approached 18-20 psi. What I think is happening is that the fuel pressure is dropping off above 5500 RPMs and I see lean spots (11.5:1 AFR) in the logs, so to counteract I add fuel in the VE table to compensate. The problem is that the injectors stay open longer, which bleeds off even more pressure. Its a catch 22.
I think I'm going to ditch the OEM hard line all together and run a 6AN supply/return from surge tank to fuel tank. 6 AN feed/return from surge tank to fuel rail/FPR. I would only use a 10AN line from surge tank to the external fuel pump. I figure its all gonna cost 50 for the tank, 150 for the fuel pump, and probably 150-200 for the lines and fittings.
Also, I think Im going to switch to push lock fuel hose. Braided looks better but is a real PITA.
Last edited by strokercharged95gt; 08-01-2017 at 03:09 PM.
I just picked up a series 2 fuel pump basket and pump off of ebay for a little over $100. Will the series 2 fuel pump and assembly in stock trim be able to provide enough volume to the surge tank at no/low pressure through a 3/8" line? The surge tank would only be mounted about 5 feet behind the main fuel tank. I would like to modify only the electrical in the series 2 pump housing, and plumb a fitting for the return from the surge tank. I figure if I keep everything else the same, and the series 2 fuel pump can provide enough volume, that I should be good at nearly empty on fuel. Anything I'm missing?
Just an update. I have been racking my brain over the whole surge tank. I really do not want to mount my surge tank and fuel pump in my trunk that also houses the battery. There is something about having fuel components in the sealed trunk that is a little uneasy. I have decide to cutout the lower sump portion of the trunk to make room for a tray to mount the outside fuel components. The tray will be welded to the driver frame rail. Also I would rather have a loud fuel pump outside of the car than in it. Once the install is complete, I will seal the trunk with a piece of sheet aluminum. So the lower part of my trunk and the oem muffler area will be the mounting for these components. So last night I moved the muffler over the passenger side of the car, only took one cut and two mandrel bent tubes. I figured I want to keep hot exhaust on the passenger side only and the fuel system on the driver side only.
I fabricated up a piece of squared tubing to make the tray that will mount behind the car. It looks like the surge tank will be about 6-7 inches from the exhaust canister, is that enough? I would like to mount the fuel pump to the left of the surge tank. So far I'm like $45 in it for the surge tank and $20 in it for the piece of squared tubing. The tray is only tacked for now and will eventually be approximately 4-6 inches higher than it looks in the picture below. I am still looking for the best way to run all four fuel lines forward. If anyone have any suggestions on mounting location or design, please feel free to comment as I would like to get it right the first time.
Last edited by strokercharged95gt; 08-12-2017 at 08:49 AM.
Got the S2 fuel pump and housing installed. Pump tested fine. Fuel gauge works. Since the stock fuel pump will easily flow enough to keep the surge tank topped off, I decided it would be better to use that pump as it will generate less heat than the Aeromotive 340 lph. I installed the surge tank and dual fuel pump mounts along the driver side frame rail. I ordered a single Bosch 044 external fuel pump from a reputable company so it shouldn't be a knockoff. At about 55-60 psi fuel pressure and above, it will outflow the Aeromotive pump anyway (also produce less heat/require less power). The surge tank has an additional bung for a second fuel pump and I got a dual pump mount so any future upgrade to a second pump will be easy. I have run the lines from the main tank to the surge tank, but am waiting on some additional fuel hose to complete the feed and return to the motor. All of the fuel lines will be mounted outside of the passenger compartment.
Just need to finish up a coup of hoses and install the 10 AWG relay for fuel pump and should be firing the motor up within a week. I have also left space behind the fuel component tray in case I need to put a heat exchanger on the return line. As stated before, on my previous setup my pressure would get worse and worse as I drove the car longer and longer. I was not sure if it was a pickup problem or the fuel was getting too hot and boiling inside of the lines. You can imagine after 45 minutes of the same fuel be recirculated through the hot fuel rail and being returned to the tank would be less than ideal. I am hoping that this will be my last issue so I can push the motor above 18-20 psi. More updates to come.
Total costs so far $230 for pump, $45 for surge tank, $30 for steel mount, $110 for used S2 pump and assembly, $50 for fuel assembly ring, and gonna be about $150 for hose and fittings.
Almost There
Last edited by strokercharged95gt; 09-01-2017 at 07:20 PM.
05-12-2017, 08:43 AM
