vcarvajal89

Hey guys so like most new members my first post is because I am having some Idling issues with the RX8 I just purchased

2004 Rx8 6speed with 22947Miles
Only after Market part is a K&N Typhoon Intake (Came with the car)

What was done previously to me getting the car. (Less then 10k Miles on all parts)
ALL PARTS FROM MAZDA DEALERSHIP
New Plugs
New Wires
New Coils
New SSV

Originals parts still with the car, everything was clean and didn't look like it needed to be replaced

So the car will start it takes 3-4 seconds but it will start, Idles up to just over 2k RPM sets there for about 30-45 seconds and starts to drop to the point where it shuts off (Accidently flooded the engine once, but lesson learned and cleared it no problem) When checking for a vacuum leak I noticed the MAF was unplugged so figured "heck that was easy" started the car and sounds like light back firing from the engine and its extremely hard to keep the car at a steady idle with foot on the gas RPM was all over the place. So I cleaned the MAF and tried again no improvement. Then I had a buddy sit in the front to try and listen for vacuum leaks and he found nothing, while he was there I had him unplug the MAF and the engine stopped backfiring and with my foot on the gas I can keep the car at a steady Idle, I have a typhoon intake and made sure all three air hoses were properly connected, took intake off cleaned it and nothing... I killed the battery when I flooded so then my trips to parts stores began

First thing did was replaced the battery with Duralast Gold (not sure if this makes a difference or not) AND the plugs (I verified all coils hooked in the right place) No change... Next I cleaned the MAF thoroughly, no change... Then I replaced the MAF(Exchanged new one in for another incase of defect) no change, I cleaned the ESS made sure not a grain of dirt was on her, there was a slight difference in idle but still same results high rev slowly drops to stall, I did reset the NVRAM but it didn't help...

Thats where I got so far, I KNOW FOR A FACT the Cat is bad when reving the engine you can here all sorts of rattling so I ordered a new one from Advance (I had store credit so I figure why not its the Walker OE Cat, just waiting for it to arrive so I can replace also have rear O2 Sensor that I will replace at the same time as the Cat. Oil levels are all good also. I purchased an OBDII bluetooth adapter and using the Torque App these are the faults I have

Current Faults
P2070---Powertrain Intake Manf Valve stuck open
P0102---Mass or Volume air flow circuit low input
P0113---Intake Air Temp circuit High Input

Pending Faults
P0302---Cylinder 2 Misfire Detected
P0463---Fuel Level Sensor circuit high input (Unplugged fuel pump when I did the deflooding figured thats when this popped up)
P0031---HO2S Heater control circuit low/Bank 1 sensor 1

My questions for now are why would the car Idle better without the MAF plugged in, also there is a smaller plug (Green Connector End) that isn't plugged to anything its attached to the same harness portion of the MAF, did that go to the stock intake? While typing this long winded message I ran out to the car to check the intake for cracks (just remembered its plastic) and noticed a HUGE issue... who ever replaced the SSV only put 2 out of the 5 bolts to the intake back I will order replacement bolts and bolt it down properly... Would that be enough to cause Idling issues??? Intake seems to be solidly on there with no play in it what so ever... If there is anything else I should check please let me know Im very mechanically inclined (start Mech school soon) so I wanted to check everything before I drop $185 on the stealership to do a compression check (I feel like thats a bit excessive but thats what the mechanic said, and I couldn't find any other rotary mechanics withing 50miles of Gainesville, FL)...

Thanks in advance for any help and advice, I have raped the search button on here enough that i feel it was time to post...

vcarvajal89

I forgot to Mention I did notice a Heavy amount of carbon build up while changing the Plugs, I wanted to do the Seafoam clean thing but wasn't sure if it would be effective with the idling issues

dcviper7

It would make sense to me that a combination of the air leak from the missing bolts (after MAF, causing a lean condition) and the increased back pressure from the bad cat would be enough to cause serious idle issues. It will definitely be interesting to see if changing those things fixes the issue, I would definitely wait until then for the compression check to see if it is necessary.

About your MAF question, like I said before the intake air leaks would cause a lean condition with the MAF plugged in, so maybe with it disconnected it defaults to a richer AFR, thus counteracting the leaks and causing a smoother idle. Just a guess though.

vcarvajal89

Makes sense, is there anywhere that sells gaskets and bolts for the intake manifold, (other then dealership) I figure they would be the easiest quickest way to get things but obviously not the cheapest...

Another issue Is the Green connector that was a mystery before, but I believe its some sort of air/vacuum switch unique to Manuals... apparently on the stock box there was a sensor of sorts that the green connector is suppose to be attached to, also a cylinder piece with a vacuum line that was attached to the original box as well... apparently they are suppose to be carried over...well both are missing can anyone confirm that these do in fact exist and that the instructions on the K&N manual are accurate??? If so anyone have any ideas of there function and or the repercussions of them missing...

Mr_Pieper

The K&N intakes are notoriously junk that take horsepower away and the Walker cats have a tendency to melt much quicker than a factory one.

vcarvajal89

I've heard about the Typhoons being problematic... with that being said... ANYONE want to trade there stock intake for my Typhoon intake... even trade but you pay for shipping but seriously i'm not kidding...

badinfluence

You have a compound issue here, so you need a tiered solution.

Here is the thing to remember. When you finally "FIX" the problem, you will not know it till your ECU is reset and does 50 to 100 miles and balances the problem out.

If there is any kind of air leak, the engine runs rich and tries to kill itself with Carbon. You can try cleaning it, but I have a better approach I used when someone idled my car for 2 hours at a shitty bodyshop with 87 in it.

There is a vac hose on the top of the engine that connects to the oil cap. Take it off, clean the inside and around the tube with alcohol. Replace it and put a hose clamp on it. This has blown off on my car at least twice, and sometimes it leaks just enough to **** off the ECU.

Try and find your air leak if you can, but if you can't it may be that some of the valves are literally "stuck open" with carbon. There is a simple fix that I have demo'ed that works amazing for the price.

May people tried Seafoam, and yeah it works, but I have something even less invasive I use. E85.

Empty your tank as much as you can, and put 1 to 4 gallons of E85 in the tank. Fill the rest with 93 (98 RON) or high octane. Then add between 250:1 and 100:1 of premix that IS NOT SYNTHETIC. NOT TCW3! OR even better transmission fluid! Most premixes that professionals use are non synthetic refined transmission fluid.

Now you need to drive the car HARD to heat **** up. That doesn't mean you have to drive around at 9k, just keep it between 3000 and 7000 and occasionally hit 9000 so you can actuate all the exhaust valves. Usually you can just drive around in a lower gear (1) and be good.

KEEP running the premix even after you might fix the issue. Then get your compression test because it is to late. If you can, try and get a warranty from your bank or credit union with a 0 deductable just in case it is serious. I bought a 2009R3 that had been sitting for awhile so I am in a similar boat.

Also make sure your battery is good because that is the backbone of any Engine computer. I recommend a AGM with a high peak voltage if you can. Something like a PC680 or 51R by Oddessy is the best coice if you aren't having starting issues because they use Virgin Lead, and because of that they can deal with more power output because they are not recycled like every other battery. The weight savings and extra engine bay space is nice too, because you have more room for the engine to breathe. I plan on moving my battery to where the washer bottle is.

For an Intake get a Mazdaspeed or AEM.

badinfluence

Seafoam and Water should be last ditch effort. Starting with the Ignition System was a good idea. Try the E85 and premix trick I suggested. Don't go crazy on the E85, to much and you will stress out your injectors and fuel pump. I would suggest no more than 2 gallons for a Gen2 and make sure your tank is FULL of other gas with that premix. The cocktail will clean **** up.

Basically all your trying to do is increase the octane by increasing the Ethanol content, and make the flame of the burn hotter, so it vaporizes the carbon by burning faster. Ethanol has 1/3 the fuel power that gasoline goes, and burns twice as fast, so you will have less power total, but you will burn off any deposits fast.

Get an OBD2 reader just to be sure, you could also be having a fuel pump issue with your idle and the E85 trick could make it worse if you are not careful. Ease into the throttle not mash it. If something doesn't feel right, back off.


I will help with anything I can and explain anything I can. Just make sure you running at least 93 for while in that car. Most dealers screw you by putting 87 while they let people beat the **** out of it on a test drive.


BTW high current means, low voltage. Amps = Watts/ Volts. 12 Volts/12 watts = 1 amp. 9volts/12watts=1.33amps. That is enough to **** of any computer. Charge that battery up to the max then reset the ECU. Charge the battery outside the car and the ECU will reset itself.



The car would idle better without the MAF plugged in because the voltage is wacky and without it the car is guessing instead of getting bad information or bad voltage in this case. No MAF Voltage = no open loop (Dynamic Power Output)


E85 Calcuator
http://www.intercepteft.com/calc.html

Ethanol takes more heat with it, and I run 4 gals e85 with the rest 93 and get BETTER gas mileage because our ECU wastes so much fuel on cooling which generates carbon and wastes gas frying the cat. If you can, run without the CAT for while, indefinitely if you can get away with it.



If you want to fact check me, I absolutely encourage it. Look into how people are running E85 mixes, NOT Straight E85. Very popular among Mazdaspeed3 and EVO/GSXes.

vcarvajal89

Ok wow information overload! Lol Thanks for the reply.
Unfortunately with the majority of the intakes bolts missing, I have to wait for those to come in, because the dealership had to order them. Once those are in I will try your trick.

Now my car is literally EMPTY on Gas so I guess now would be a perfect time to try premixing, could you explain a little further on the mixing quantities. So far to my understanding is 2 gallons of E85 and then fill the rest with E93 or better if available. Now I was thrown off on the part where you said 250:1 and 100:1. I know what/how premixing works. Im just confused on what ratios I use with what products.

My new cat arrives today and I have a new rear 02 so between those and bolting down the intake I am hoping those will fix the problem

Jay719

Never had any issues with my typhoon. Works great with my car and i dont have any power loss. maybe its only some with certain things attached?

04Green

iTrader: (1)

My $0.02.

Reset all the codes.

With Cat installed, and bolts installed, do the 20 brake stomp and try to start the car. If it starts, let it sit and idle. It will probably start around 3K, and work its way down. If it gets down to 1K and starts to hunt, turning the AC on will give it some load and will raise the idle. If it does this, then drive it easily.

The additional wire is for the VAFD. It is no big deal The OEM air box has a place to plug it in if you do not have a manual.

The first goal is a running car without a huge vacuum leak. The missing bolts are likely the cause of the vacuum leak. The unplugged MAF is likely because the car will run better open loop with the leak. The leak will let in the most air at idle, and less the harder you push it as manifold vacuum changes. Running open loop, means all is based on tables with no adjustments, and as said here, could be pig rich.

While poking around, look at things in the $100 thread below you can do, specifically the grounds. A kit is less necessary than cleaning and installing some star washers in my opinion. I just am not sure enough to update the list.

badinfluence

Gas Oil Mixture Ratio Calculator

100:1 would be 20oz /tank
250:1 would be 8oz/tank
Most bottle sizes are 8oz, but most of the ones available are TCWIII and Synthetic which is not ideal for what you want. I went to autozone and about a funnel with an oz read out and a valve for opening and closing. lets you get more precise and not have to worry if you have a larger bottle of whatevery you are premixing with.

Non Synthetic transmission fluid is my bet, or Pettit racing Rotary Premix. Idematsu if you can find it, but it is hard to source from what I have seen. Don't use anything that is a 4 stroke oil

vcarvajal89

UPDATE: I fixed the intake by replacing all the bolts with replacements from Mazda and no change at all. While I was at Mazda. I had them run the VIN to check the status of all the recalls and this cat hasn't seen the dealership since BEFORE any of the recalls went down. In limping the car over there tomorrow to have them do all the recalls which should include the CAT considering mine is toast... lets hope that helps if not then I'll have them do compression test

badinfluence

So you have 22k miles right? Not 220K? Just making sure that was not a typo

vcarvajal89

Nope no typo its 22,000 (Twenty two thousand) Miles

dxjp

That green plug is used for the for secondary air inlet.

vcarvajal89

Well I'm waiting on the Tow truck as I type, dropping it off at the Stealership in hopes of squeezing a new CAT and a maybe new coils and wires, even though the current ones have less then 5000 miles. Some times recalls can be a GREAT thing (at least in my case) She will be locked up there for roughly 4 days, I am also having them perform a compression test so we will see what happens. Wish me luck

badinfluence

It did some serious sitting and idling then if it is at 22k. Defiantly assume that it is clogged with Carbon. If you aren't sure how to, pay the dealership for the Carbon Cleaning. They make their own pricing for this service, so don't pay more than 120 bucks.

If you have a warranty they WILL make you do this before you can get your engine replaced. That compression test will also tell you what is going down. Have them do the compression test, clean it, and do another compression test to see if it improves at all. You should not have to pay for the 2nd one.

Jay719

I am deployed and have been having my wife just start it up and run it every so oftne (she cant drive MT) i know it shouldnt build up that much carbon but how much could it do to the engine?

badinfluence

Thar car needs load and RPMS to idle properly. With that you risk running rich and never reaching proper cleaning temperature. Have her get it to operating temps, give it another 2 minutes and hold the throttle at 4k for about 15 seconds, then let it idle back, then have it briefly hit 7kish then let it idle back down a few times and you are good. I honestly think you shouldn't have her do this more than once every 3 months if it is in a garage.

When you get back fill it up with 3 gals of E85 and hit it hard and you will be good.

Personally I would disconnect the battery. You will save the car's electrical system by powering it down. As long as it is in a dry garage you won't have big issues.

When you get back make sure you reset the ECU/PCM, so if you pull the battery and leave it for 3 to 6 months it will do with for you.


I had idle issues, and one way I cured it was buying a shop fan from Lowes and putting it right in front of my car in the garage. When I pull in, I left it run for 2 minutes with the A/C off and then shut it down. I run the fan for another 30 minutes or so. Put it on a timer and motion sensor and you will be good there. I swear by this because Carbon gets formed from hot starts and incomplete combustion. Left over crap in the combustion chamber just breeds carbon.

Carbon must bond 4 times and carbon build up is when it can't so it doesn't go out the exhaust like it should. Leaner means no Carbon because it bonds properly. The RX8 runs rich because it wastes about 1/3 of the gas mileages on cooling the rotors down.

Trex87

Any resolution to this?