THEDOOMEDHELL

Hello my name is Simon and I love rotaries. If there were high revving and power hungry piston engine as rotaries were, maybe I'd like them to. In fact, I like piston engines of that sort too:

I enjoy 4AGEs, 4G63s, KF-ZEs (apparently they can rev to 9k), B16Bs, F20C, SR20VEs, RBs, VRs (when they're aluminium) ... And obviously many others.

I also like engines that don't specifically rev very high, but none-the-less are interesting: Honda H22A1s, Honda K20s, Honda C30As, Toyota 2JZs, Toyota 1UZs, Toyota 2URs, Nissan CA18s, Nissan VG, VQs, VKs, Mazda Bs, MZRs even, Alfa Romeo Twin Sparks, V6s, 20V turbos, Lotus 900s specifically 918s.... Lots more that I respect.

However, rotaries are the most unique and amazing engines of them all in my opinion. That is why two years ago, I wanted to purchase a Veilside RX7. Considering I was 16 and a huge F&F fan, it only made sense. The impact that little veilside did to me was crazy, I mean at the time I thought it was just another highly modified car from japan! Oh boy was I wrong! Anyways, after researching some of the components in the RX7, I heard of the rotary engine and I found it memorizing to the ear... But I also couldn't comprehend the power of it, and so I wanted a 26B swap in it 😂😂😂. After looking around, I lost hope in it.

After that I wanted power in a small package. LS-swapped Miata, C30 swapped Del Sol (RWD), Toyota MR2... But then I found the perfect car for my lifestyle without any crazy swaps: RX8.

Power in a small package, high RPMs, back seats for shorties, the whole package. It's not that expensive used either: I've found for 2000$ in good care.

For tuning, I've wanted something simple, but beautiful. I've seen 2000$ 6port engines and transmissions on Ebay recently, that would be a good start. Midpipe, high flow cat for extra 5hp, then lightweight flywheel mod, sport tyres... Later some brakes, suspension, maybe some interior lightening... Etc.

Basically, I want a stage 2 RX8 for track days, ​​​​time attack, drifting, an all purpose rotary hero!!!

Some of the work I want to do in the far future is either a peripheral port or turbo... But that's for another thread.

Finally, I wanted to request a little bit of knowledge about the RX8 S1 Kuro (black) edition, is it true it made 250hp@9,000rpm? Is it possible to tune a basic 6port this way? Is it possible to buy a Kuro 6port MSP?


Thanks for all the replies, I will be making threads for some of my questions later.



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Loki

iTrader: (1)

Stage 2 eh... cool.
The Kuro is a 6-port like any other.

An ebay engine would be a great start for a paperweight . You have some catching up to do, check the new and potential owners sticky thread.

I wouldn't touch a $2k RX8 with a stick unless you're buying a mint shell to put $5k of new engine into.

Have you gone out and driven one?

THEDOOMEDHELL

I haven't actually... Wish I had time but im still trying to save up and I also have school till june so...

I've talked to a guy who says it'd be smarter to run a 13Bt with high compression rotors than a 6port, would you know anything about that?

Loki

iTrader: (1)

Oh god. Smarter maybe, a lot poorer, certainly. Making more power, probably not.

THEDOOMEDHELL

When you say poorer, do you mean the price of that project or the quality? A bit confused there... Also, what do you mean by "oh god"? Just confusing....


I'm really wondering, what's the easiest way to make a great deal of power for a fair price with rotaries? I mean a 2k$ 6port renesis + a 6k$ turbo kit will get you 400hp+ probably, but I'm talking 500hp+ certainly...
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MoMacAttack

The RX8 is certainly a great entry point for a super sporty ride for little money. However, going above the rated horsepower is not cheap. But that might be offset by the entry point in terms of overall dollars spent.

I love my RX8. The looks are right. The weight is a good compromise for all the practicality (quad coupe 4-seater with a decent boot). The horsepower and gearing make it quick and stock it really hugs the turns. But because of the power delivery, limited slip and balance it doesn't break traction easily unless the street is wet. Which is really a good thing. I don't have traction control but the car is easily manageable for an RWD car with over 200 hp.

Bottom line, the RX8 is versatile It looks great. It has 90% of what you need right out of the box. I would look at sway bars for handling and an ignition upgrade (LS coils) for reliability and power. Go for an ECU upgrade next to squeeze out all the performance you can at any modification level. The Rx8 is a joy to drive regardless. Take the plug, there's nothing like a rotary, and for all the negative reviews, the RX8 is a modern, safe and beautiful car for little money and an exotic engine that isn't all that bad if you premix. Factor in a rebuild in the selling price, and it still makes sense.

Of course, you can still get a lot of Rx8 in an NC miata. It will cost more, but it depends on how long you plan on owning, and the number of miles per year, etc. That said, it seems like you love cars, so there are a ton of alternatives that all would be fun. But as far as rotaries go, 9K redline and a very linear power curve make the renesis a very attractive buy/drive.

I think that the negatives are worth it.

THEDOOMEDHELL

*kinda looks like copy pasta but I'll take it!*

Totally agree with you on all the points you have said about the RX8... That is why I am looking to buy one. There aren't many cars that competes with the RX8 in its price to amusement bracket, which is exactly why I want to buy one.

However, and this I might have not clarified, the RX8 apparently leaves a lot to satisfy when it comes to daring tunes, it seems as though Mazda pushed the rotary too far in the wrong direction for tuners to correct the little renesis!

And it's not like I dislike the Renesis, I think it has its place in the rotary community as the stock engine that gives a run for [other engines'] their money!

But, none-the-less, as an american, I need to show off some of the tuning skills I have acquired during my quest for power, and american tuners is all about power, so I kinda have the duty to squeeze as much as possible out of my RX8 in the question of power...

​​​... And this is not to say that I want to kill the car with power, I am aware of the dangers of adding power to the wheels in the corners and such, which is why wider wheels and wider body would be my reply.


All of that is not really important. What is however, is the question as follows: What is the easiest way to make power out of a rotary, possibly a 6port renesis? How can I attain such power on a fairly low budget?

Thank you for your enthusiastic comment, kinda felt like my reply should've had a similar tone... Lol

Loki

iTrader: (1)

Wider body? Duty to produce power? What are you even talking about?

Renesis tunes give you minor improvements because Mazda left very little potential on the table, there is little left to correct. This isn't a Civic made for economy and emissions (clearly). If you want power, you're looking at an investment in forced induction worth more than most RX8s.

THEDOOMEDHELL

How is it hard to understand? I'm looking to make power out of the chassis. I dont care if I need an engine swap, I don't care if I have to rebuild it every year (it's a summer car), anything goes in those aspects.

I pretty sure I made it clear I didn' necessarily want a renesis either lol. .

BigBadChris

iTrader: (4)

Im going to stop you right there. A two thousand dollar 6 port renesis will not make 400WHP for more than an hour. Period.

A $6K turbo kit (which one, by the way?) will not make 400WHP. Period. Any kit will need modifications, changes, and enhancements.

Speaking as someone who has thrown a nauseating amount of money into my car looking to make "big power", I say dont bother. I have (conservatively) $20K in modifications to the car, including a second engine after the first one got destroyed. That first one, by the way, was not some $2K craigslist special. It had less than 30,000 miles and made "the best compression the dealer had seen". (It was a 4 port, but that isnt the point. To make "big power" you need a purpose built motor.) Purpose built motors dont come cheap. Anyone who tells you they can build you a 400WHP Renesis is straight up lying to you. The handful of shops that build top tier motors will tell you this is a bad idea. I went to the best rotary tuner in the country this past weekend, and he got me to 288WHP on a Mustang Dyno. Mustangs read lower than Dynojet, so I feel comfortable saying I have 300WHP. It wasnt the number I set out to do, but its just a number. I love the car, it puts a smile on my face every time I get in it. Thats what matters to me, and thats what should matter to you.

All of that being said, there are exactly two ways to get 400+ WHP in an RX8. LS Swap or 13-REW swap. Both have been done do death on this forum, just search.

There are less than a dozen 400WHP Renesis motors that we know of. The more recent one is in New Zealand, built by a really smart and dedicated guy who designed his own turbo manifold, has a patent on modifications inside the engine, and hes on his third or fourth motor. Hes also one of the most prolific tuners we have, so he knows how to get the most out of this platform. The other one is up in the States and he has a top mount turbo kit. He is on his second motor. Neither one of those builds came off a shelf and their budgets were much much greater than your eight thousand dollar plan.

Lastly, if you really, really want to buy a turbo RX8, go buy a used one. Profit off someone else making mistakes, upgrading parts and learning lessons. One of the best ones in this club is for sale right now for nine thousand bucks, but it hurts me to think that a car that nice would go to someone so inexperienced. Youd wrap it around a tree or destroy the motor, grunting like Tim Taylor and screaming "more powerrrrr!".

sonicsdaman

iTrader: (3)

why would you not care about spending twice the cars value every summer?

Loki

iTrader: (1)

Well in that case drop in a V8. Job done. About 10 grand.

NotAPreppie

A good chassis $2000-$3000
LM4 engine $1000
T56 transmission $1500?
hot cam $300?
Used LS-something head $500
Install kit $2000-$5000
LS accessories from a car $1000
Custom drive shaft $500
Rear end $1500?
Incidentals $5000

I pulled most of these numbers out of my *** but the total is probably within 10% of reality.

THEDOOMEDHELL

Well at least my noobish responses is getting replies and im learning, but you guys are a bit toxic not gonna lie... And it seems you guys don't really try to read my responses either, you guys kinda just read what you want and reply to just that lol


So the BREW swap is really the only way huh... Are you absolutely sure?

*I've heard of a 13Bt with high compression rotors and something like 15PSI boost... Could I have links for builds like that please?*

I think what I'll do is buy the RX8, buy a 6port, and build it up bit by bit without touching the engine. Then, when I feel financially comfortable, I'll start build a faster rotary...
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BigCajun

iTrader: (1)

Hardly toxic.
Maybe jaded.
We've heard it all before, and the replies you are getting are pretty straightforward.

BigBadChris

iTrader: (4)

Thats quite a statement, considering you dont seem to be reading and interpreting our responses.

The search function is your friend, as is reading the damn forum.

Yes, because everything we told you indicates an RX8 has a lot of potential to go faster without touching the engine......

THEDOOMEDHELL

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​​​​​Lol I'm not here to fight with you, I'm here to learn something new. It would be in my greatest interest to do so.

If you want to consider me hopeless just because of some of my stubbornness, go ahead it makes no difference, you obviously wouldn't want to teach me.

Never-the-less, all I ask is an understanding of how to go about with a high power RX8 build. Links make both of our lives easier, and screwing around with me helps no one either.

BigBadChris

iTrader: (4)

I do want to teach you! I told you exactly what not do to, cause it didnt really go the way I wanted. I promise you Im not the first to throw money at this car.

Loki

iTrader: (1)

Manual RX8s are all 6-ports (in North America).

Text is a hard medium to convey emotion, so I apologise for toxicity, but posting things that make no sense results in reality checks. We can wait until after thousands of dollars have been spent to provide said reality check, but then why even post at all.

The REW swap is still not cheap, I'd budget 10k all the same, more if you want it to be rebuilt first. So is any 13B since you have to do all the work of a REW swap and potentially other unexpected stuff. You can find REW and V8 build threads in the handy Rotary and Non-Rotary Swaps in this very forum. In fact the top one there is a 13bt swap into a 2009. There's an expectation that someone can google around before asking everyone to spoonlink them. If that's too harsh, this is going to be real hard.

MoMacAttack

IT makes sense that you would need a turbo and tune with the forced induction. But I think that most people who want more power end up getting a different car.

But you can enjoy the car without much modification. Oh wait. This was interesting for me. Maybe you might like it too.

RX0004

If you're wanting a fast street car or race car, then a NA Renesis powered car, or turboed for that matter, isn't going to cut it IMO..... unless you specifically plan to race against other Renesis powered RX8's. The Renesis motor is generally unreliable in standard form, and exponentially more unreliable when turbo charged. Some will try to argue this, but it's really a moot discussion. I'm a rotary fan, engine builder and RX racer from way back, but unfortunately there's some inherent design flaws specific to the Renesis which exacerbates the unreliability when trying to extract more power from them. No-one to date has overcome these issues. Hence why as good as the rest of the car is, RX8's are next to worthless in the used car market solely because of their engine.

Unless you plan to do all / most of the work on a conversion yourself, it's likely to be a costly exercise IMO farming the work out to different workshops. That being said if you do plan on doing a conversion, my advice for the simplest, most reliable and most potential for power would be the LS swap. It's a proven swap now and I'm well and truly into doing such a conversion myself. There's a lot to do, but it's actually not overly difficult if you're reasonably handy and have a level of mechanical aptitude, take your time and work through it methodically. If you do the bulk of the work yourself like I have, and pick up bargains on parts and bits n pieces when you can you'll be surprised how little it will actually cost. Including the purchase cost of the car, all parts and tuning, factoring in some cost recouped from selling the RX8 engine and trans, I'm looking at around $6K for a tidy street driven 350hp+ LS1 powered RX8. I know some RX8 owners that have spent more than that just rebuilding their stock Renesis at a workshop....

Loki

iTrader: (1)

I can think of a few people on this forum who have "overcome these issues" for years. Some of their cars are for sale at the moment, you can take a look in the for sale section.

But I agree, a V8 is the fastest/easiest solution to big improvements. Don't mistake that to mean it's fast or easy, but all the other options are worse.

RX0004

There's no disputing people have bolted turbos to Renesis motors and had varying degrees of success, but does that mean they've addressed the issue of engine reliability? What about the limitations of tune-ability and HP that can be extracted from the engine? Beyond this forum there's many workshops that have tried to develop a high hp turbo package for the Renesis. The result generally has either been turbo kits that are excessively expensive for low to moderate power increases, whilst significantly increasing the probability of engine failure at some time in the near future. That, or they've just come to the conclusion it isn't feasible.

Just recently there's talk on this forum of a workshop claiming some big HP numbers from a turbo Renesis, but reading between the lines in that thread some are dubious of the power claims, whilst others alluded there's rumors the motor has already died on the dyno.

But if you think it's you can achieve what almost no-one else has, then I congratulate you on your enthusiasm and determination.

200.mph

iTrader: (9)

exhaust port location plays a big role in low hp #s or so ive been told over the years lol

THEDOOMEDHELL

Thank you all for the wave of messages, you guys are the best! 😊

Ok I think I have a good idea to exactly what imma do. This thread is pointless but a sign of how good the RX8 community is.

I will buy the RX8 as soon as I turn 18, then plop in a 6port 6speed for slightly more power but mostly because I don't trust these 2000$ 2004 engines.

In the near future, I will midpipe the car (with very high chances of a high flow cat), some spark plug upgrades, cooling and general stuff to make my daily life easier.

In the far future, I will convert the car to an RX7 engine, possibly what I was talking about earlier like the 13Bt high compression swap, but seems as thought a REW swap is the most popular of the two and the one with the most feedback.

Thanks again everyone you are all bringing me great joy and helping me with my arrogance and stubbornness I wish to suppress. Sometimes you just read stuff that makes you want to believe, and reality checks are the best way to help out (although it's hard to prove they're truly reality checks).