keen0arene

2005 rx8, 2 engine replacements, 49.9K miles, extended engine warranty just ended in may 30th.

Problem: when I started the car finally, after a month of it not being able to be started, it BLASTED out COOLANT out of the exhaust pipes, both as liquid and as a vapor.

What occurred before this was the car was low on coolant, and I noticed a scent of coolant while driving like 2 miles, checked the reservoir and the plastic seal cracked. I sealed teh best I could and then took it home. The car stalled out/shut off 2 times in the 2 miles back home.

I assumed it was low coolant, added fresh coolant to the tank, and started the car, then it sputtered like a lawn mower, engine oil light was blinking (I was planning on going for an oil change), so I turned off the car as a safety measure.

I assumed she was flooded, bought oil, added it, checked the level and oil was fine.

I couldnt start her again. So I did the deflood proceedure, which took 5 or 6 battery recharges to get it to start. I know there's a cloud of garbage that comes out of the exhaust when defloods occur, but this was REALLY EXCESSIVE. I drove it around the block and coolant clouds followed me.

Does anyone know what the problem might be?

oh I forgot to add, my car has flooded like 10 times since I got it in '05, and I took it to the dealership in feb (they told me one of my coils were bad).

I just took it to the dealership and they're telling me it's a cracked radiator, and the coils, plugs, wires need to be replaced.

I'm concerned the engine seals are blown, but the head tech says that the engine is fine.

I cant afford a new engine, on top of a radiator replacement, I'm out of work. And I'm concerned about DIY servicing my car affecting a potential lemon law claim.

I liked my Rx8, but I have a list of problems that are CRAZY that came with it, and I'm betting alot came from the 2 engine replacements. That level of work on a car cant be easy on the other parts, can it?

please help

it took me a month to start it, also.... because of the battery recharging that I had to do.

And the tech tells me the engine is fine, but hasnt done a compression test and will charge 2 hours to do that. He tells me if the seals are blown due to overheating, then coolant would be escaping everywhere inside the hood, as well as the exhaust. He was telling me that he didnt see the problem happen there at the shop when he ran the engine, but I saw the problem happening as I was driving to the dealership.

as you can see, I'm pretty concerned about this. If anyone can help, I know it's you guys here.

RIWWP

iTrader: (2)

Coolant in the engine that gets dumped out the exhaust can only mean 1 thing: Coolant seal failure in the engine.

Letting the coolant sit in the engine has probably eaten pretty much all of the internals past saving as well at this point



Cascading failures get really expensive when the basics aren't maintained properly. The number of times that it has been flooded is a good indicator that at least the ignition has been neglected severely (needs replacing every 30k). If the dealer that is telling you that coolant shooting out of the tailpipes is fine is the same dealer that did the engine replacements before, there is a pretty good chance they were doing something wrong before too.

9krpmrx8

iTrader: (46)

The tech is an idiot, no surprise there. Two hours to do a compression test? That is BS, it takes 30 minutes tops and it is a fixed price.

As for the coolant seals well a proper coolant system pressure test will tell you if your coolant seals are bad. That is mechanics 101, you are getting jerked around. But pretty much if you have coolant in your exhaust you are screwed.

WreakLoosE

^ This

keen0arene

well this is LA, and I've seen a bunch of dealerships doing this car, as the garages in the local area all closed up in the past 5 years. All of them seem to be completely incompetent. [After the tech told me about the cracked radiator, he stopped there with his discussion about the diagnosis. I asked him then to confirm if there was a problem with the coils, like another dealership declared there was, and hours later the tech calls me back confirming the other problem. If he was doing his job, wouldnt he have noticed that problem simultaneously?]

Is it possible that when I went in in february regarding the flooding issue (the one I cleared) and they told me that I needed a new coil, that they might have missed the beginning of a coolant system failure?

I feel there's a correlation to how many times that I've had the engine replaced and all the additional problems with the car. And I'm really thinking that Mazda hq said "dont replace the engine a third time" in feb, while it was still under warranty.

How does a radiator crack, with a car that never had an accident, was garaged, and is under 50k miles?

Carbon8

iTrader: (4)

Your radiator even if it was cracked would not result in this, you would have a pile of coolant directly under the front of the car!

Coolant seal failure, most likely all engine internals are not salvageable and by this time the entire ignition system is probably shot so you will need coils, wires, and plugs, the Cat is most likely history at this point as well. All in all an easy 5K repair bill at a reputable rotory shop. More like 7-8K if you have a Mazda dealer do it.

All in all a very bad day!

keen0arene

So do you think I should do a compression test, stand by the tech while he's doing it (so I know they are actually doing the job), and if it fails, question the "cracked radiator" that they tell me I have?

I really need to know exactly what to do here, because this car has been to dealerships 8 times now for major probs. I'm very nervous, I feel supremely ripped off.

ShellDude

iTrader: (12)

here's my guess.... you ran low to no coolant through a broken bottle or radiator so some such.... overheat eventually caused the seal to go.

You finally get your coolant system patched at least enough to run coolant through it and gush.... water in your tailpipe.

Sorry for your loss man.

keen0arene

so how will I find this out, replace the radiator, wires, coils, plugs for 2 grand, and trust that the tech is right about the engine being ok?

or is there a test to do? will the compression test id if the engine is blown?

I'm dead broke. I can replace either the above, or buy the parts and DIY the whole system. I cant do both....

detectiveorange

Screw a compression test man, you have way bigger problems to worry about.

wires, coils, and plugs isn't gonna fix your problem. You let coolant sit in your engine for over a month which has ruined all the internal parts (most likely)

Your car was stalling out because you had coolant in the engine, not because of low coolant. When you gave it more coolant, you just provided more coolant to enter to engine.

Lemme try to lay out a simple step-by-step procedure for you as to what to do

1) Get it TOWED to a mechanic (A GOOD ONE!) and get a coolant system pressure check. Your results are most likely going to be bad.
2) Get the engine taken apart and check for a busted coolant seal and while you have the engine apart, look for corrosion (I have a feeling there's gonna be a lot)
3) Hope that your engine internals aren't corroded after sitting in coolant for a month. They probably are, but hey, you've learned from your mistake. Don't let your car that can't start sit in the driveway for a month without getting anything done about it
4) If by some miracle, there's 0 corrosion, simply get the coolant seal replaced, check the apex seals for damage/corrosion and put it back together. THEN get a compression test

Also, if you've flooded it 10 times on 1 Cat (catalytic converter)......Pretty sure you're gonna need a new one of those too (although I'd get someone else's opinion on that)

I want to repeat. Don't drive it, get it towed. Also, DO THIS TODAY IF YOU CAN!!! DO NOT WASTE ANY TIME!


I have no idea how to go about this in regards to warranties and money, I'd ask Carbon, RIWWP, or 9krpmrx8 about that as they know WAAAY more about this car than I do. I'm just putting all their information (as well as mechanics 101 fundamentals that everyone should know) together into a neat post for your to follow.

There is probably a reason for how many times you've had your engine replaced. I'm not sure if you're the original owner or not but it sounds like the car hasn't been treated with much TLC.

I wish you the best of luck and keep updating the thread as to what your results for everything is. Worst case scenario is you're gonna have to sell the car =/

detectiveorange

Also, don't get the radiator replace. Like carbon said, if you had a cracked radiator (or any cracked pipes) you'd have a puddle gathering underneath the car. The engine is not okay. The "mechanic"'s a dumbass.

keen0arene

take the engine apart? if it were that easy, then I'd just buy new seals, right?

here's the warranty report. I blocked out some info just in case mazda plays dirty. (Please tell me if I should block more out).

detectiveorange

Yes. I'm not sure how experienced you are but rotaries are very simple machines (that's the beauty in the engineering). I'm hoping you know someone who owns a car with a renesis engine in it to help you out. Doing engine rebuilds is incredibly fun. If you've never done one, I'd HIGHLY recommend doing this yourself (with supervision!). You'll learn so much about your own car and respect it much more and treat it better. And when you hear the engine start up for the first time after a rebuild, you'll jump up and down with joy. It's the best feeling in the world. I'd say the hardest part is getting off all the crap that's attached to the engine.

But yes, get the engine taken apart ASAP. You don't want that coolant sitting in there any longer. It's probably already destroyed most of your engine.

Depending on how much you love the car you can look at this 1 of 2 ways.
If you love the car and you feel amazing when you drive it, you can look at this as "I have something to invest time into"
Or if you hate the car, you can look at it as "ugh! stupid piece of crap broke down AGAIN!" and get rid of it.

I noticed you live in LA. I'm in Huntington Beach (orange county). If you don't wanna do this yourself there's these guys by me, Neptune Speed Garage RX. All they work on is rotaries. They've moved here straight from Japan and know the ins and outs of these engines like they know their ABCs. They charge standard shop prices and they've helped me out SO MUCH. If you don't mind getting the car towed a little ways away, I'd DEFINITELY take it to them. At least I can give you my word on their work, from what you're telling me, the mechanics around you sound like idiots. These guys are well known on the westcoast and do all sorts of rotary stuff. They don't even work on piston engines :P

www.neptunespeed.com
714-842-8548
17222 Gothard Street Suite D
Huntington Beach, CA. 92647

That's their info

detectiveorange

I have no idea about warranties. Hopefully one of these other guys can help you out. 1st mistake was an automatic trans :P I also had no idea the 8s had heated mirrors hahaha.

Carbon8

iTrader: (4)

Asking the same question countless times will not yield a different answer, your engine is shot! I would make that my number one priority

Your warranty is expired, and I would not even bother considering another remain considering the price increase they recently had.

Look for a local rotory shop in your area, I am not from around there so I do not know any shops but there are many guys in that area that do!

detectiveorange

^
basically.

this is a harsh reality to come to terms with. Especially if you're short on money, so I understand the repeating of the same question hoping for a different answer. But I think your best bet is either salvage the parts of the engine you can (if any) and try to find a used one. if you REALLY wanna keep the car.


Miata's are going for cheap right now on craigslist. They're really fun to drive and you can beat the hell out of them and parts are cheap

Grace_Excel

iTrader: (5)

He's in Port Hueneme, near Ventura and Oxnard. I don't believe there are any well known rotary shops in that area. Most are south or east of that area.

detectiveorange

^
how do you know that? O.O

detectiveorange

if you do plan on rebuilding it yourself. here's a site for some parts

Atkins Rotary Specialties || Mazda Rotary Parts

Carbon8

iTrader: (4)

Not necessarily, thats where his care was purchased, he could be outside of that area.

keen0arene

I'm in the west side of la, huntington would be a tow, but a good shop is a good shop.

How does everyone know for certain that my engine is blown? I ask the question in different ways because nothing seems certain, and I can only afford one chess move.

I want to know some test a dealer can do to tell me if the engine is gone or not, because the answers are important. I'm talking to lawyers right now about lemon law, because this thing has been flooded several times, hence being towed to dealers and then having engines replaced as well as spark plugs, wires and starter.

So if the engine is gone, could it have been gone when underwarranty in feb, meaning that they owe me an engine rebuild for free, or a refund on this machine?

anyway thanks for all your help so far. I'm not giving up on this thread and I'm not wanting to give in. I just wanted to thank you all for your help and support through this insanity.

Carbon8

iTrader: (4)

Its called a compression test, and was already stated above.

Regardless coolant in the exhaust is 100% always coolant seal failure, your engine is shot without a compression test. But feel free to get one.

detectiveorange

Okay, lemme try to put this in the simplest terms I can haha

We all know your engine is gone because the symptoms you're telling us say so without even looking at it, and we're trying to tell you a compression test is pointless because it is. It's the equivalent of going up to a person who's been shot in the head with a shotgun and saying "alright then, should we check for a pulse?" (sorry for the morbid analogy, it's all I could think of lol)

A compression test checks for the compression of each chamber of the rotors. If your rotors have been sitting, soaking, and corroding in coolant for a month, there's gonna be nothing to do a compression test ON.

How do we know your engine is gone? Because you told us there's coolant coming out of your exhaust pipe and your coolant level keeps running low. LITERALLY, the only way that could be happening is if coolant is getting into the engine, and the only way coolant can be getting into your engine is if your coolant seal is busted. that's LITERALLY the only way (excluding putting coolant in your gas tank :P)

The other way we know it's for sure gone is that you're telling us you let it sit with coolant in the engine for a month without doing anything. If you'd let it sit for a couple days, we'd probably say "ehhhh, we're not sure. Could be a bit of damage MAYBE but who knows" but you let it sit for a month. It's FOR SURE gone. The only reason I'm saying "damaged" is because that's how I word things when I plan to DIY them, I say "gone" if I plan on getting rid of it.

As for the warranty: I have a VERY strong feeling they're going to try and pin this on you. Because you let it sit for a month (and trust me, they'll be able to tell. an engine that's been sitting in coolant for a while is pretty easy to spot) and I'm pretty sure most warranties are only honored if the part that's warranted has been well maintained (i.e. ignition changed every 30k miles, kept up on oil changes,......didn't let it sit in coolant for a month, etc.) and if I were a dealer, I would put "not getting a move on it" under neglect.

detectiveorange

Interal Engine Damage

Check out #2 on the list. I'm not sure if your engine will look THAT bad, but it won't look too far from that. Take a look and then you'll realize why we're saying a compression test is pointless

keen0arene

Well I ordered the compression test, though I was certain that the engine was destroyed after you guys clued me in really heavily. (Thanks for that, because the shock of spending $2k for a couple parts just to find a destroyed engine would have devastated me emotionally.)

I'm trying to talk to warranty right now to see if they will honor some sort of (even partial) replacement of an engine. Or I'll have the POS sent to that newport/huntington shop someone suggested here.

(I needed to run the test so warranty would be able to acknowledge the broken engine, otherwise it's just an uneducated guess from a non cert tech [me].)

Ugh. I'm not a happy man with this car. I'm glad you guys are. I'll keep you up to date.