Congratulations, you got an 8.
08-08-2010, 02:13 PM
#1
Congratulations, you got an 8.
Your first $100 with your previously loved RX8
Assuming it is not a new one, with a Mazda Warranty, There are several modifications that really helped with my 04 detailed in the next several posts. These are based on my first year with the car. All of them I wish I had done earlier. All of them I got from this forum. The hope is that you do not have to look as hard as I did and can get the benefits a bit earlier in your relationship.
I tried to group them into collections that are easiest to do together, in a order that lets someone ease into work under the hood. In most cases, I tried to point to existing threads because they, for one, existed, and two were likely better than what I would have written. Some I had to write, not because I invented them, but because I combined ideas from several sources. I tried to organize them with a title, why you would want to do this, some benefits, and then a link to how to perform the modification.
I print DIYs and keep them in a notebook in the garage. I would suggest printing the ones referenced here before you start the job.
Optional Reading Assignment, if you are really interested in the 8.
RIWWP has created a great place to start learning titled New and Potential Owners. Check it out at New and Potential Owners START HERE! - RX8Club.com
Additional info, (thanks wcs, mazurfer):
Because the rules say these posts have to have steps...
Step 1, read the next post.
Good Luck and Happy 8ing!
[ Key Words to help make thread easier to find; Cooling System, Electrical Grounding, $100 Thread, First Modifications, First Mods, New Owner, Clean MAF, Fans On Low, Throttle Body Bypass, Oil Cooler Air Flow, A/C Reprogram ]
Assuming it is not a new one, with a Mazda Warranty, There are several modifications that really helped with my 04 detailed in the next several posts. These are based on my first year with the car. All of them I wish I had done earlier. All of them I got from this forum. The hope is that you do not have to look as hard as I did and can get the benefits a bit earlier in your relationship.
I tried to group them into collections that are easiest to do together, in a order that lets someone ease into work under the hood. In most cases, I tried to point to existing threads because they, for one, existed, and two were likely better than what I would have written. Some I had to write, not because I invented them, but because I combined ideas from several sources. I tried to organize them with a title, why you would want to do this, some benefits, and then a link to how to perform the modification.
I print DIYs and keep them in a notebook in the garage. I would suggest printing the ones referenced here before you start the job.
Optional Reading Assignment, if you are really interested in the 8.
RIWWP has created a great place to start learning titled New and Potential Owners. Check it out at New and Potential Owners START HERE! - RX8Club.com
Additional info, (thanks wcs, mazurfer):
All new owners should know where to find the Mazda Work Shop manual online
M A Z D A
And for those that purchased their car used and didn't get an owners manual
http://www.mazdausa.com/MusaWeb/pdf/...004_owners.pdf
Note, suspicion of inadequate search before asking questions often results in random posts in huge red letters, usually all caps, indicating that some feel you should work for information as opposed to be helped. That is the nature of this beast. I suggest using Google to help.
To use Google to search as opposed to board search.
From the google search box, enter "site:rx8club.com (enter search text)"
M A Z D A
And for those that purchased their car used and didn't get an owners manual
http://www.mazdausa.com/MusaWeb/pdf/...004_owners.pdf
Note, suspicion of inadequate search before asking questions often results in random posts in huge red letters, usually all caps, indicating that some feel you should work for information as opposed to be helped. That is the nature of this beast. I suggest using Google to help.
To use Google to search as opposed to board search.
From the google search box, enter "site:rx8club.com (enter search text)"
Because the rules say these posts have to have steps...
Step 1, read the next post.
Good Luck and Happy 8ing!
[ Key Words to help make thread easier to find; Cooling System, Electrical Grounding, $100 Thread, First Modifications, First Mods, New Owner, Clean MAF, Fans On Low, Throttle Body Bypass, Oil Cooler Air Flow, A/C Reprogram ]
Last edited by 04Green; 10-02-2014 at 03:01 PM.
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08-08-2010, 02:18 PM
#2
Group 1 for the First $100.
Group 1, of the First $100.. Total investment, about $25. Time to mod, outside of shopping, about 2 hours tops. These modifications are minimally invasive, easy to start out with, and all provided me benefits.
Step 1.5 [saw this one from mastiffkb]
[Added August 2014]
Clean the battery terminals. No DIY provided. If you are not comfortable doing this, I do not recommend trying. But, clean power and ground solve lots of problems.
Step 2
Clean the MAF: Fixes rough idle, poor gas mileage, stalling
Favorite DIY is Engine Light - 2096 Code - RX8Club.com
On the MAF, the car "can" idle with a dirty MAF, just not as effectively. it is a little rough. If you add the compressor load, and the electrical load of the blower in the car, and the load of the radiator fans and whatever the AC clutch draws (probably not much), you are really trying to draw a lot of power at only 750 RPM. If air and fuel and spark are not just right, it can miss, or at least not burn the fuel right. You get your air data from the MAF, if it is off, then fuel is off, car runs like crap. It made such a difference I did all my cars. My daughter commented the next day that the 6 was running better.
Step 3:
Insulate A/C Lines
Fixes poor AC performance
Favorite DIY is DIY: Easy MOD for colder AC - RX8Club.com
Suggestion is to hit Home Depot or Lowes, pick up the split black foam pipe insulation for 1/2 inch pipe. You want the kind that has adhesive on both sides of the split. Put it on, pull off the clear backing tapes, stick the two sides together. I did not use tie wraps or anything. It is holding together fine in 100 plus degree outside heat. The color blends well with the rest of the engine compartment. I did both lines.
Step 4:
AC Amplifier Re-Program
Helps poor AC performance.
Notes: Procedure states that it only changes the air source. Many have said that it does more than that. I used a temp gauge and saw lower temps after, as well as reduced A/C cycling.
Best DIY is looking for some help - RX8Club.com
To save clicks, the basics are here:
Step 5:
Buy a long funnel for adding Oil
Fixes oil in the: air filter, maf, throttle body, little resonator box, intake .
Basically, when you change the oil in an 04, 05 or 06, use a funnel long enough to extend past the air line that comes off the oil fill line.
Step 6:
Vacuum the cabin air filter.
Believe it or not, it can lower AC temps 1 to 2 degrees (measured) if the old one is dirty. I listed this as a clean it, use a vacuum with a soft brush on the end. This lets me keep it in the first $100. Use the DIY below to get it out and put it back in.
Favorite DIY is cabin filter change??? whos done it - RX8Club.com
Step 7
Read the next Post
Step 1.5 [saw this one from mastiffkb]
[Added August 2014]
Clean the battery terminals. No DIY provided. If you are not comfortable doing this, I do not recommend trying. But, clean power and ground solve lots of problems.
Step 2
Clean the MAF: Fixes rough idle, poor gas mileage, stalling
Favorite DIY is Engine Light - 2096 Code - RX8Club.com
On the MAF, the car "can" idle with a dirty MAF, just not as effectively. it is a little rough. If you add the compressor load, and the electrical load of the blower in the car, and the load of the radiator fans and whatever the AC clutch draws (probably not much), you are really trying to draw a lot of power at only 750 RPM. If air and fuel and spark are not just right, it can miss, or at least not burn the fuel right. You get your air data from the MAF, if it is off, then fuel is off, car runs like crap. It made such a difference I did all my cars. My daughter commented the next day that the 6 was running better.
Step 3:
Insulate A/C Lines
Fixes poor AC performance
Favorite DIY is DIY: Easy MOD for colder AC - RX8Club.com
Suggestion is to hit Home Depot or Lowes, pick up the split black foam pipe insulation for 1/2 inch pipe. You want the kind that has adhesive on both sides of the split. Put it on, pull off the clear backing tapes, stick the two sides together. I did not use tie wraps or anything. It is holding together fine in 100 plus degree outside heat. The color blends well with the rest of the engine compartment. I did both lines.
Step 4:
AC Amplifier Re-Program
Helps poor AC performance.
Notes: Procedure states that it only changes the air source. Many have said that it does more than that. I used a temp gauge and saw lower temps after, as well as reduced A/C cycling.
Best DIY is looking for some help - RX8Club.com
To save clicks, the basics are here:
- Verify ignition switch is in OFF position.
- Press and hold the front defrost and air intake selector buttons simultaneously.
- Turn the ignition key to the "ACC" position for 3 seconds. (Continue to hold the buttons down from step #3.)
- Turn the ignition key to the "ON" position for 3 seconds. (Continue to hold the buttons down from step #4.)
- Successful programming will be confirmed by the rear defrost indicator light flashing 3 times. NOTE: If vehicle's battery dies or cables are removed, the programming will not be retained and must be performed again.
Step 5:
Buy a long funnel for adding Oil
Fixes oil in the: air filter, maf, throttle body, little resonator box, intake .
Basically, when you change the oil in an 04, 05 or 06, use a funnel long enough to extend past the air line that comes off the oil fill line.
Step 6:
Vacuum the cabin air filter.
Believe it or not, it can lower AC temps 1 to 2 degrees (measured) if the old one is dirty. I listed this as a clean it, use a vacuum with a soft brush on the end. This lets me keep it in the first $100. Use the DIY below to get it out and put it back in.
Favorite DIY is cabin filter change??? whos done it - RX8Club.com
Step 7
Read the next Post
Last edited by 04Green; 08-17-2014 at 07:13 PM. Reason: bad link for AC line DIY.
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08-08-2010, 02:21 PM
#3
Group 2 of the First $100.
Group 2 of the First $100.
Total price here is about $50. You will want about 4 6 foot pieces of pipe insulation ($8) and a grounding kit (cheap ebay one, usually $30 with shipping) and a can of brake cleaner. These are also grouped to be done together. All of them want the air box and shelf out. Other than cutting the air box shelf, none of these are invasive.
Step 8:
Block Air Flow around Radiator, Direct Air through Radiator
Fixes overheating, anything related to hot engine, poor AC performance
I did not find a DIY here. And, I do not have any pictures of when I did it. Basically, with the air box out, shove the round pipe insulation into any gap around the radiator that exists. If anyone takes pictures of what this looks like, ideally while they do it, or has a procedure, please let me know. I searched and could not find one.
{Edit 9/15.2013}
Step 8.5
While the air box is out, it is easy to see the Eccentric Shaft Sensor. The thread below will help you recognize it, has pictures, and a drawing.
https://www.rx8club.com/series-i-tec...eaning-206687/
I would not pull it out. If you can see it, you can hit it with brake cleaner. Just blast it with Brake cleaner for several seconds (with a suitable catch pan like a cookie sheet under it to catch what runs off), it should be pretty clean afterwards. If not, repeat. I suggest some form of eye protection for this one. I filled both eyes with carb cleaner once, that sucked. If you need to reach in with a soft cloth, or with a soft brush to loosen stuff up, feel free to do that.
There is another thread out there where someone tried to remove it and the bolt broke. That is why I advocate leaving it installed.
Step 9:
Grounding Kit
Fixes rough idle, maybe some gas mileage, entire electrical is happier, stalling
Best DIY is my grounding kit results - Page 3 - RX8Club.com
There will be several comments on this one that advocate a trip to Lowes or Home Depot for wire and connectors. There are several posts on the forum as well. I recommend searching and reading. There is a ton of knowledge. The benefits exist of both, I actually got some benefit from just adding a little electrical grease and a star washer to each joint, but bought and installed the kit anyway. You decide. I would get the kit, follow Jeffs DIY, use star washers and grease. I do strongly recommend re-crimping the connectors from the cheap kits before you use them. Use a vice, big pliers, or a hammer. My kit did not have well crimped connectors. The vendor offered to exchange it and pay shipping both ways, but I had already repaired and installed.
{EDIT 7/3/2012} Evidence is mounting that cleaning up grounds and adding the star washers is making a big difference. Grounding kit might be overkill. Maybe if a few try it and report back, we can save folks a few bucks.
Step 10:
Air Box Shelf Breather Holes.
Provides more air flow through the radiator on the drivers side.
Favorite DIY is Air Box Ventilation - RX8Club.com
Step 11:
Read the Next Post
Total price here is about $50. You will want about 4 6 foot pieces of pipe insulation ($8) and a grounding kit (cheap ebay one, usually $30 with shipping) and a can of brake cleaner. These are also grouped to be done together. All of them want the air box and shelf out. Other than cutting the air box shelf, none of these are invasive.
Step 8:
Block Air Flow around Radiator, Direct Air through Radiator
Fixes overheating, anything related to hot engine, poor AC performance
I did not find a DIY here. And, I do not have any pictures of when I did it. Basically, with the air box out, shove the round pipe insulation into any gap around the radiator that exists. If anyone takes pictures of what this looks like, ideally while they do it, or has a procedure, please let me know. I searched and could not find one.
{Edit 9/15.2013}
Step 8.5
While the air box is out, it is easy to see the Eccentric Shaft Sensor. The thread below will help you recognize it, has pictures, and a drawing.
https://www.rx8club.com/series-i-tec...eaning-206687/
I would not pull it out. If you can see it, you can hit it with brake cleaner. Just blast it with Brake cleaner for several seconds (with a suitable catch pan like a cookie sheet under it to catch what runs off), it should be pretty clean afterwards. If not, repeat. I suggest some form of eye protection for this one. I filled both eyes with carb cleaner once, that sucked. If you need to reach in with a soft cloth, or with a soft brush to loosen stuff up, feel free to do that.
There is another thread out there where someone tried to remove it and the bolt broke. That is why I advocate leaving it installed.
Step 9:
Grounding Kit
Fixes rough idle, maybe some gas mileage, entire electrical is happier, stalling
Best DIY is my grounding kit results - Page 3 - RX8Club.com
There will be several comments on this one that advocate a trip to Lowes or Home Depot for wire and connectors. There are several posts on the forum as well. I recommend searching and reading. There is a ton of knowledge. The benefits exist of both, I actually got some benefit from just adding a little electrical grease and a star washer to each joint, but bought and installed the kit anyway. You decide. I would get the kit, follow Jeffs DIY, use star washers and grease. I do strongly recommend re-crimping the connectors from the cheap kits before you use them. Use a vice, big pliers, or a hammer. My kit did not have well crimped connectors. The vendor offered to exchange it and pay shipping both ways, but I had already repaired and installed.
{EDIT 7/3/2012} Evidence is mounting that cleaning up grounds and adding the star washers is making a big difference. Grounding kit might be overkill. Maybe if a few try it and report back, we can save folks a few bucks.
Step 10:
Air Box Shelf Breather Holes.
Provides more air flow through the radiator on the drivers side.
Favorite DIY is Air Box Ventilation - RX8Club.com
Step 11:
Read the Next Post
Last edited by 04Green; 09-15-2013 at 11:33 AM.
08-08-2010, 02:24 PM
#4
Group 3 of the First $100.
Group 3 of the First $100. Total price here is about $15. That is for the hose splice connector and a short piece of 20 ga wire. The throttle body mod is invasive, you will see coolant, you will likely spill coolant. It is best to spill COLD coolant. The fan modification is invasive as well. However, this version does not require you to cut into your electrical system. If you have a disaster, you just need to get a new relay.
Step 12:
Throttle Body Heat Bypass [AKA Coolant Bypass], NOT screw in the hose
Helps poor performance in high temps
Favorite DIY is (in 3 pieces):
DIY: Throttle body bypass mod - Page 9 - RX8Club.com
DIY: Throttle body bypass mod - Page 9 - RX8Club.com
DIY: Throttle body bypass mod - Page 9 - RX8Club.com
and see DIY: Throttle body bypass mod - Page 10 - RX8Club.com for thoughts on the screw in hot weather.
Step 13:
Fans on Low
Helps high engine compartment temps, poor AC performance. Need to be able to solder a wire.
Favorite DIY DIY: Radiator Fan Switch... - RX8Club.com
Step 13.5
Suggested add from SayNoToPistons, Mod from Ash8
Increases air flow through oil cooler(s). An alternative approach is to use a utility knife with a new blade.
Favorite DIY is DIY: Improve OIL Cooler Air Flow Up to 10-15% - RX8Club.com
Step 14, [added October 2013, yeah gov slim down]
Clean the SSV.
Step 14.9:
Read the next post.
Zoom Freaking Zoom
Step 12:
Throttle Body Heat Bypass [AKA Coolant Bypass], NOT screw in the hose
Helps poor performance in high temps
Favorite DIY is (in 3 pieces):
DIY: Throttle body bypass mod - Page 9 - RX8Club.com
DIY: Throttle body bypass mod - Page 9 - RX8Club.com
DIY: Throttle body bypass mod - Page 9 - RX8Club.com
and see DIY: Throttle body bypass mod - Page 10 - RX8Club.com for thoughts on the screw in hot weather.
Step 13:
Fans on Low
Helps high engine compartment temps, poor AC performance. Need to be able to solder a wire.
Favorite DIY DIY: Radiator Fan Switch... - RX8Club.com
Step 13.5
Suggested add from SayNoToPistons, Mod from Ash8
Increases air flow through oil cooler(s). An alternative approach is to use a utility knife with a new blade.
Favorite DIY is DIY: Improve OIL Cooler Air Flow Up to 10-15% - RX8Club.com
Step 14, [added October 2013, yeah gov slim down]
Clean the SSV.
Not hard, but the most work of any job here. Needs no parts other than carb cleaner. This valve controls air for the secondary ports. There is a sensor to check that it is open, but not one to see if it closes all the way. If it does not, air goes through the secondary ports while the fuel is being shot into the primary ports. My guess is that this impacts the ability mixtures as well as how well the fuel gets from the primary injector to the combustion chamber. I believe mine was not closing all the way, based on the fact that, I think I was able to manually close it just before I pulled it out. Also, because the car starts a great deal better now than it did before. Like scary fast.
Favorite SSV DIV is https://www.rx8club.com/series-i-do-...-video-184663/
Towards page 5 or so, the video is broken down into steps you can print or follow. I did not add pictures, because mine looked as bad as the ones posted. Note the Team post where his buddy got carb cleaner down the ports. It washed the oil off the seals and made the car hard to start. Do not get carb cleaner down the ports. I just wiped the inside of the chamber with a soaked rag wrapped around a piece of 1" pipe. It worked well.
Favorite SSV DIV is https://www.rx8club.com/series-i-do-...-video-184663/
Towards page 5 or so, the video is broken down into steps you can print or follow. I did not add pictures, because mine looked as bad as the ones posted. Note the Team post where his buddy got carb cleaner down the ports. It washed the oil off the seals and made the car hard to start. Do not get carb cleaner down the ports. I just wiped the inside of the chamber with a soaked rag wrapped around a piece of 1" pipe. It worked well.
Step 14.9:
Read the next post.
Zoom Freaking Zoom
Last edited by 04Green; 10-08-2013 at 08:49 AM. Reason: Add SSV Clean
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08-08-2010, 02:26 PM
#5
Now, for after the First $100.
Group 4, outside of the First $100.
Step 15:
Coils and Plugs
Fixes flooding, poor idle, stalling, squished bird sound under the hood if it is still there after the First $100 list.
Favorite Plug DIY is https://www.rx8club.com/showpost.php...71&postcount=1
Favorite Coil DIY is https://www.rx8club.com/showpost.php...18&postcount=1
At this point, I have a 2004 RX8 that idles smoothly, in traffic, in 99 degree weather, with the AC on blowing cold (52 to 54 degree air). I sat in a parking lot in 100 degree heat and idled for 20 minutes as a test waiting on my kid to get out of a test. Car also pulls much stronger, especially above 6,000. Starts great, and can be started, moved and stopped without flooding. I picked up a few MPG over the year as well.
Zoom On.
Step 15:
Coils and Plugs
Fixes flooding, poor idle, stalling, squished bird sound under the hood if it is still there after the First $100 list.
Favorite Plug DIY is https://www.rx8club.com/showpost.php...71&postcount=1
Favorite Coil DIY is https://www.rx8club.com/showpost.php...18&postcount=1
At this point, I have a 2004 RX8 that idles smoothly, in traffic, in 99 degree weather, with the AC on blowing cold (52 to 54 degree air). I sat in a parking lot in 100 degree heat and idled for 20 minutes as a test waiting on my kid to get out of a test. Car also pulls much stronger, especially above 6,000. Starts great, and can be started, moved and stopped without flooding. I picked up a few MPG over the year as well.
Zoom On.
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08-21-2010, 09:30 AM
#10
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hey man, i cleaned my maf, it made a world of a difference. I'm not a newb but definitely not an experienced rx8 mechanic, but i had completely forgot to clean it the last air filter change. thanks for making this thread it helped me alot!!
08-22-2010, 06:51 AM
#12
Step 3:
Insulate A/C Lines
Fixes poor AC performance
Favorite DIY is https://www.rx8club.com/showthread.p...ighlight=A%2FC
Suggestion is to hit Home Depot or Lowes, pick up the split black foam pipe insulation for 1/2 inch pipe. You want the kind that has adhesive on both sides of the split. Put it on, pull off the clear backing tapes, stick the two sides together. I did not use tie wraps or anything. It is holding together fine in 100 plus degree outside heat.
Insulate A/C Lines
Fixes poor AC performance
Favorite DIY is https://www.rx8club.com/showthread.p...ighlight=A%2FC
Suggestion is to hit Home Depot or Lowes, pick up the split black foam pipe insulation for 1/2 inch pipe. You want the kind that has adhesive on both sides of the split. Put it on, pull off the clear backing tapes, stick the two sides together. I did not use tie wraps or anything. It is holding together fine in 100 plus degree outside heat.
You should also add cleaning the Eccentric Shaft Sensor, specially if the owner has an older RX8. Cleaning this sensor is as easy as changing the spark plugs and can return some noticeable idle and drive quality. Some might argue that this sensor is more important than the maf.
All new owners should know where to find the Mazda Work Shop manual online
http://www.blackhaloracing.com/shopmanual/
And for those that purchased their car used and didn't get an owners manual
http://www.mazdausa.com/MusaWeb/pdf/...004_owners.pdf
Plus! All new owners should know that the white RX8's are the fastest and have at least 30,000 WHP more than any other colour.
08-22-2010, 09:05 AM
#14
wcs.
that link is definitely wrong, I will find the correct one or write one. Great catch.
You got a favorite DIY for the Eccentric Shaft Sensor? I have not done that one yet. Sounds like a candidate for Group 2 or 3. Thoughts?
The other two links will go in when I find the correct insulate ac lines link.
Thanks again.
that link is definitely wrong, I will find the correct one or write one. Great catch.
You got a favorite DIY for the Eccentric Shaft Sensor? I have not done that one yet. Sounds like a candidate for Group 2 or 3. Thoughts?
The other two links will go in when I find the correct insulate ac lines link.
Thanks again.
08-22-2010, 09:54 AM
#15
^^^ Phew I thought I was losing my mind
I didn't follow a DIY for the ESS, I used the Mazda WS manual.
It's pretty simple, which I guess would make a simple DIY.
MMmmm I'm not doing anything today and its raining maybe I'll go out to the garage and take some pics to make a DIY.
Anyways .....
Have a look here for location of ESS
http://www.blackhaloracing.com/shopmanual/
Select Engine
Select Control System
Select Eccentric Shaft Position Sensor Removal/Installation
I originally learned about this sensor from some poor loser (me) in this thread
https://www.rx8club.com/series-i-trouble-shooting-95/p0335-eccentric-shaft-position-sensor-circuit-problem-car-will-not-idle-194505/
If you clean the ESS remember to do the 20 brake tap procedure to reset the NVRAM
I didn't follow a DIY for the ESS, I used the Mazda WS manual.
It's pretty simple, which I guess would make a simple DIY.
MMmmm I'm not doing anything today and its raining maybe I'll go out to the garage and take some pics to make a DIY.
Anyways .....
Have a look here for location of ESS
http://www.blackhaloracing.com/shopmanual/
Select Engine
Select Control System
Select Eccentric Shaft Position Sensor Removal/Installation
I originally learned about this sensor from some poor loser (me) in this thread
https://www.rx8club.com/series-i-trouble-shooting-95/p0335-eccentric-shaft-position-sensor-circuit-problem-car-will-not-idle-194505/
If you clean the ESS remember to do the 20 brake tap procedure to reset the NVRAM
Last edited by wcs; 08-22-2010 at 10:38 AM.
08-22-2010, 10:35 AM
#17
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Advanced search isn't terrible, but you gotta use it to your advantage.
Also, it's probably worth noting to Newbs that the "Similar threads" at the bottom of the page is a useful tool as well. Unfortunately, they have to post with certain words before that pops up though!
Hey how's about adding the link to the TSB list..................... http://www.finishlineperformance.com....php?pageid=11 if you didn't already do so?????????
And...............Jon316G has a ton of threads on how to test various components including the ESS.
Also, it's probably worth noting to Newbs that the "Similar threads" at the bottom of the page is a useful tool as well. Unfortunately, they have to post with certain words before that pops up though!
Hey how's about adding the link to the TSB list..................... http://www.finishlineperformance.com....php?pageid=11 if you didn't already do so?????????
And...............Jon316G has a ton of threads on how to test various components including the ESS.
Last edited by Mazurfer; 08-22-2010 at 10:39 AM.
08-24-2010, 07:30 PM
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