Engine swap pics needed.
12-20-2012, 06:45 PM
#1
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Engine swap pics needed.
Can someone show me some photos of -any- motor swap that shows the crank pully and where it sits in relation to the steering rack? Does it sit above the rack or behind it? Are people with engine swaps swapping out the electric-assist for hydraulic racks? Are there any other hydraulic racks that bolt-on this car?
12-20-2012, 07:41 PM
#3
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What are SE.arch crossmembers? I can fab up most if not all of the engine mounts, crossmember, and PPF brackets I might need. My concern, after inspecting the engine bay, is that the upper firewall protrudes into the engine bay. This could interfere with the back of cylinder head(s) resulting in having to mount the engine more forward. That could push the crank pully into the steering rack's electric motor. I've only seen pics of some 1JZ/2JZ swaps and it looks like the front of that engine would go through the rack.
A picture is worth 1000 words. If you know of any threads loadded with pics, let me know.
A picture is worth 1000 words. If you know of any threads loadded with pics, let me know.
12-20-2012, 10:33 PM
#8
It seems that most people around here that attempt a swap either dont make a build thread or dont ever finish. Good luck finding what you need, and if you follow through with a project, please be the first to post a detailed build thread for others to enjoy.
12-21-2012, 01:42 AM
#9
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Last edited by kickerfox; 12-21-2012 at 02:11 PM.
12-21-2012, 10:57 AM
#12
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12-21-2012, 12:52 PM
#15
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Here's one of my other engine swap projects that's since been sold. It was a 96" sandrail originally VW powered. Previous owner put a Ford EXP 1.6t in it. I yanked that and put in a Mazda KL-DE 2.5l v6 with a 5-speed from a ProbeGT. It was 1080lbs when completed and was very fast but a little too much understeer! :D It was titled street-legal and alot of fun.
I've done swaps fab and wiring before. It's not that hard.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q1CsMw3H4yY
Anyway... Had I known about the Toyota 1MZ-FE, I'd have probably used that. The KL's are open deck. The MZ's are closed. Both have forged cranks. In a FWD application the MZ is an easy swap but RWD mat be an issue. I'm still researching the bellhousing options because the MZ has the starter on the trans side much like the KL. I may have to make a firewall cut to fit the starter. From what I can find online, the MZ(dressed) is 60lb heavier then the 13b-MSP(dressed). That shouldn't effect the handling too much. A battery relocation may help get it closer to 50/50. If I go with a W58 trans, that will add a bit of weight. I'll remove the 8s oil coolers in exchange for a single cooler for the MZ and likely have to replace the 8's steering rack with an MX5's power rack. Some weight savings there (vs. the electric rack) but I'll have to add a power steering pump. With the weight saved in oil cooler lines, I may break even. Maintaining the handling of the 8 is fairly important to me. It will inevitably be heavier but I think the weight is managable. TRD made a supercharger kit for the MZ so it can handle -some- boost. I have a set of T25s from a Z laying around that were intended for another project but wouldn't a v6tt RX-8 be a blast?
I won't have any problem interfacing the MZ's PCM into the 8s electrical system but one issue may be the instrument cluster. If the Toyota PCM is going to bitch about the Toyota canbus cluster missing, then I'll use another v6 ECU from an OBD2 vehicle with an analog cluster and get a canbus interface for the 8 cluster or make my own.
/randomfacts
I've done swaps fab and wiring before. It's not that hard.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q1CsMw3H4yY
Anyway... Had I known about the Toyota 1MZ-FE, I'd have probably used that. The KL's are open deck. The MZ's are closed. Both have forged cranks. In a FWD application the MZ is an easy swap but RWD mat be an issue. I'm still researching the bellhousing options because the MZ has the starter on the trans side much like the KL. I may have to make a firewall cut to fit the starter. From what I can find online, the MZ(dressed) is 60lb heavier then the 13b-MSP(dressed). That shouldn't effect the handling too much. A battery relocation may help get it closer to 50/50. If I go with a W58 trans, that will add a bit of weight. I'll remove the 8s oil coolers in exchange for a single cooler for the MZ and likely have to replace the 8's steering rack with an MX5's power rack. Some weight savings there (vs. the electric rack) but I'll have to add a power steering pump. With the weight saved in oil cooler lines, I may break even. Maintaining the handling of the 8 is fairly important to me. It will inevitably be heavier but I think the weight is managable. TRD made a supercharger kit for the MZ so it can handle -some- boost. I have a set of T25s from a Z laying around that were intended for another project but wouldn't a v6tt RX-8 be a blast?
I won't have any problem interfacing the MZ's PCM into the 8s electrical system but one issue may be the instrument cluster. If the Toyota PCM is going to bitch about the Toyota canbus cluster missing, then I'll use another v6 ECU from an OBD2 vehicle with an analog cluster and get a canbus interface for the 8 cluster or make my own.
/randomfacts
Last edited by kickerfox; 12-21-2012 at 01:17 PM.
12-21-2012, 01:11 PM
#16
12-21-2012, 02:23 PM
#17
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I haven't done a swap in an RX-8 before and anyone who has done any engine swap knows it's research research research before they start turning wrenches.
Judging by the image of the v8 above, the v6 will probably clear it. Most engine swaps I've seen in the 8 use a GM v8 or Toyota inline 6. Those are the engines I'm refering to when asking what's done about the steering rack. I'm not about to go buy 10 different engines or spend days at the junkyards measuring them YET. There are many things to consider when choosing an engine besides fitment. Fitment is obviously the most important.
Seeing more detailed images of v8 and i6 swaps is only for reference and will give me a better idea on how a v6 might sit in the engine bay. If a v8 clears the rack, I know I won't have length issues with a v6 and will continue researching the rest of the swap like transmission and ECU options. If the v8 sits clearly 10" over the rack, or the rack relocation is a major issue, I may look into other engine options. Is that so hard to understand? I doubt you've ever done a swap or you'd know there's no wrong questions. The more information one can aquire before the project begins, the less headaches they will run into during the build.
Judging by the image of the v8 above, the v6 will probably clear it. Most engine swaps I've seen in the 8 use a GM v8 or Toyota inline 6. Those are the engines I'm refering to when asking what's done about the steering rack. I'm not about to go buy 10 different engines or spend days at the junkyards measuring them YET. There are many things to consider when choosing an engine besides fitment. Fitment is obviously the most important.
Seeing more detailed images of v8 and i6 swaps is only for reference and will give me a better idea on how a v6 might sit in the engine bay. If a v8 clears the rack, I know I won't have length issues with a v6 and will continue researching the rest of the swap like transmission and ECU options. If the v8 sits clearly 10" over the rack, or the rack relocation is a major issue, I may look into other engine options. Is that so hard to understand? I doubt you've ever done a swap or you'd know there's no wrong questions. The more information one can aquire before the project begins, the less headaches they will run into during the build.
Last edited by kickerfox; 12-21-2012 at 02:29 PM.
12-21-2012, 02:53 PM
#18
This is a thread you started in this community. It doesn't belong to you.
Congratulations on your ability to stand at the end of a long line of people who did the same thing before you and never delivered. The issue is will you back it up, not me. Don't take it personal, the history here is on the same side of the fence as my statement. I hope you put some more effort into your research, research, research than demonstrated so far ...
https://www.rx8club.com/suggestions-...4/#post4394387
.
Congratulations on your ability to stand at the end of a long line of people who did the same thing before you and never delivered. The issue is will you back it up, not me. Don't take it personal, the history here is on the same side of the fence as my statement. I hope you put some more effort into your research, research, research than demonstrated so far ...
https://www.rx8club.com/suggestions-...4/#post4394387
.
12-21-2012, 03:21 PM
#19
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I haven't demonstrated anything. I only asked for photos. Let me handle the build details. Once I have a final gameplan I'll share it.
What's my alternitive to a swap? Junk the car? I hate to see a clean 8 with 72k hit the bone yard. I like the rotary engine and I've owned a 1st gen and two 2nd gens but the engine has it's flaws (mainly high fuel consumption and lack of torque). I also like projects. I like the challange and the feeling of accomplishment when it's done. An engine swap isn't a hard thing to do. Metal fabrication is easy for me so getting the engine in the engine bay is a weekend job. Getting the exhaust, drivetrain, electronics, tune, and cosmetics takes much longer but the engine being in the car can be quite motivating. There are a dozen reasons to do the swap and I'm extremely resourceful. Most people probably fail do to lack of skills and not being able to afford someone who has them.
As far as the rotary. I have a heart for that engine. It's very disapointing to see the Renesis having so many problems. I felt really bad for Mazda because they tried so hard. When the 8 first came out, I said "one day I'll own one of those". I even test drove it but at the time I couldn't afford it. I finally got my hands on one and I love it. It's a disapointment to drive having built a 15psi Miata. I miss the torque but I love the handling of this car more. The 8's engine is most likely on it's last legs anyway so come spring I can begin the teardown. Maybe this cars old engine can be parted out to save the life of a many others.
What's my alternitive to a swap? Junk the car? I hate to see a clean 8 with 72k hit the bone yard. I like the rotary engine and I've owned a 1st gen and two 2nd gens but the engine has it's flaws (mainly high fuel consumption and lack of torque). I also like projects. I like the challange and the feeling of accomplishment when it's done. An engine swap isn't a hard thing to do. Metal fabrication is easy for me so getting the engine in the engine bay is a weekend job. Getting the exhaust, drivetrain, electronics, tune, and cosmetics takes much longer but the engine being in the car can be quite motivating. There are a dozen reasons to do the swap and I'm extremely resourceful. Most people probably fail do to lack of skills and not being able to afford someone who has them.
As far as the rotary. I have a heart for that engine. It's very disapointing to see the Renesis having so many problems. I felt really bad for Mazda because they tried so hard. When the 8 first came out, I said "one day I'll own one of those". I even test drove it but at the time I couldn't afford it. I finally got my hands on one and I love it. It's a disapointment to drive having built a 15psi Miata. I miss the torque but I love the handling of this car more. The 8's engine is most likely on it's last legs anyway so come spring I can begin the teardown. Maybe this cars old engine can be parted out to save the life of a many others.
Last edited by kickerfox; 12-21-2012 at 03:29 PM.
12-21-2012, 06:17 PM
#22
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It's a pretty good engine actually.
That would have even less torque and horrible throttle response.
The Toyota v6 is a closed deck aluminum one-piece block with 4-bolt mains that have 2 additional bolts each through the sides of the block. It has a forged crankshaft and belt-driven DOHC 24v heads (Yamaha I think).
Dimensions:
18" (rear of block to front of timing cover)
19.5" (rear of block to crank pully face)
18" (crank center to top of valve covers)
20" (crank center to top of intake manifold)
9.5" (crank center to bottom of oil pan)
Some 1MZ-FE engine pics. (Many more found here SolaraGuy.com • View topic - 1MZ-FE teardown ) The bottom-end is built like a brick $hithouse.
That would have even less torque and horrible throttle response.
The Toyota v6 is a closed deck aluminum one-piece block with 4-bolt mains that have 2 additional bolts each through the sides of the block. It has a forged crankshaft and belt-driven DOHC 24v heads (Yamaha I think).
Dimensions:
18" (rear of block to front of timing cover)
19.5" (rear of block to crank pully face)
18" (crank center to top of valve covers)
20" (crank center to top of intake manifold)
9.5" (crank center to bottom of oil pan)
Some 1MZ-FE engine pics. (Many more found here SolaraGuy.com • View topic - 1MZ-FE teardown ) The bottom-end is built like a brick $hithouse.
Last edited by kickerfox; 04-27-2013 at 10:00 PM.
09-07-2013, 02:42 PM
#23
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i know this is an old thread but inferior v6 what u smokin? 3.5 gm 60 v6 goes 200k and maybe have to change the spark plugs seems like the only thing thats going on on this site is bs either some one has done a rack swap or they havent
Last edited by Johnnys hobby shop; 09-07-2013 at 02:53 PM. Reason: pictures
09-08-2013, 12:44 PM
#24
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GM60s have quite a few aftermarket parts available but it's just an engine to me. I wanted something different that fit ALL my requirements and the Isuzu fit the bill. Trust me, that engine was NOT the first on my list of engine choices but they easily run for 200k miles and have a lot of HP potential.
