Thanks guys! :bigok:

Chad it was my pleasure taking the time out of my day to answer your questions.

Brice, I can't thank you enough. You really made my day. Thanks again and can't wait till my bumper gets here!! Keeping my fingers crossed on the date it will arrive though, lol.

Ordered my authentic front bumper, rear under spoiler and rear spoiler from Brice. Communication was fantastic. Brice replied to PMs and was not dodgy and was straight to the point. This is one of my first and only purchase online and Brice did not disappoint. Everything arrived as is and I could not be happier.

The parts did take a little longer to arrive but Brice kept me in the loop 100% of the time. Answered all my questions and concerns promptly. I could not ask for more.

Overall I had a positive experience and would definitely shop with you again.

Thank you again Brice.

Ordered front and rear Racing Brake ET500 brake pads for a great price shipped. This was my first purchase from Race Roots. Communication with Brice was very positive and same goes with his service.

The package arrived quick and safe. The brake pads were packed with care in a tidy Fedex box which included tracking.

I wouldn't hesitate about doing business with Brice/Race Roots again.

Made another order (clear corners and brake pads) with Race Roots last week and got my package on Tuesday.
Great price, great service, prompt shipping, can't complain about anything!
Looking forward to the next order of stuff I don't really need but buy anyways... lol

Glad everything arrived in a timely manner and ok!

:)

Issue with purchase
 

Ok, so here is my issue with Race Roots/Brice -

I had ordered an Authentic Mazda speed Front bumper from him on 8/11/09. When I ordered he sent me an email saying Google Checkout didn't calculate shipping correctly and he charged me an additional $250 buck to ship. Okay, I can understand it’s a big heavy box and it was going to cost to ship that. Fine. When I received the bumper on 8/29/09 I noticed that it was not packaged to protect the bumper at all and he just shoved boxes in there to support the bumper. No peanuts, just a little wrapping around the ends and the bottom. Opened up the packaging and noticed that the bumper was broken in 3 different places. It was ripped at the bottom by the flairs (from the back to the front). When I emailed him about it his first suggestion was to file a claim with FedEx, after the run-around, he finally got back to me on 9/21 (almost a month later) and told me FedEx only covered $200 bucks because he did not put insurance on the bumper. He options after that was

A. Get a price reduction for the credit and keep the bumper you have
B. Order a new bumper and apply the $216 towards that purchase or I can assist and sell the MS Bumper on the forums hopefully someone local will want it to cover the remaining cost in getting you a new one.

NOT acceptable - I told him this and he asked if I would be willing to ship it back to him and he would take it to his personal painter to have it repaired. Brice told me his personal painter was quick and his turn around time was 3 - 4 days. I said we could try that but if after it was repaired and it did not look new then I would not take it. He told me that he would send pictures and video after the repair to see if it was OKAY and warranty it for one year. I agreed, had him send me a separate email with his word on a warranty for the bumper, and sent it back on 9/29.

On 10/7 Brice emailed me that he just dropped it off at the painter and that his painter would finish repairing it this week and would paint it the following week. This is not 3 - 4 days, but I was not worried, I just want it done right.

On 11/5, again, a month later Brice emailed me telling me that the bumper was finish and he was not going to ship it until Monday or Tuesday. Brice sent over pictures which looked okay to me, showing that it was reinforced with glass on the backside, painted and assuring me that I should not have a problem with it. On 11/14 i emailed him asking for a tracking number but he said that he hasn't shipped it because he wanted to crate it because the box was thrashed. Finally it was sent out on 11/25 along with a tracking number.

I received the bumper on 12/1 and again it was broken. The crate he was talking about was the same box he sent it to me in but with a wood frame up two sides of it. The middle of the box was totally compromised and my guess was that FedEx set something heavy on it and that’s how the top part of the bumper was broken.

I emailed Brice to find out what we should do, I was not OKAY with accepting this bumper broken again, and I was not going to ship it back out to him and have to wait two months to get it back.

We agreed to send it to a shop in my local town to fix the issue. I talked to the shop here and they agreed to help me out. We had two options

1. Just fix the spot with fiberglass and not paint it because it was not a visible piece
2. Fix it and paint it.

Brice told me that Fixing and painting was too expensive and that since it wasn't visible it would be okay just to fix it. I agreed because I just wanted to get this put on. I am not, and never have wanted to screw over Brice. Brice paid for the part to get fixed and told me that he would still warranty what he promised but if this crack ever started to grow that it would be on this shop and not him. I understood and agreed.

Ok, so I put the bumper on right after it was fixed and everything seemed okay. A few months later I notice the paint starting to flake off. On May 25th (6 months after i finally put it on) I emailed Brice to tell him that the paint was flaking. He told me to take some pictures and send them to him - So I did. Brice told me he would go and talk to his painter about it and look over the pictures. He also told me to visit my local shop for a repair estimate.

I went to the shop to find out what is happening, I wanted to make sure that I was in the right for asking Brice to fix it. The shop looked at it and told me that the reason that the paint is flaking like that is because when they applied the paint over the existing paint they didn't sand it enough to make it hold very well. They told me the paint they used looked good, but it was pre-paint procedures that caused this to flake. They also gave me a quote to have it repainted.

On June 21st I get this response. -

"Michael

After talking to the painter about what could possibly be the issue or what may have happened this is what he has discussed with me.
After further reviewing the pics closer the paint is not peeling from where the crack is on the bumper as I see it peeling in random places and different amounts.
With closer inspection of the pictures it appears there are quite a few rock chips on the bumper from wear and tear of where you may drive.
Essentially what the painter has come to the conclusion that is from the rock chips the paint will get a slight nick and be exposed then moisture and water will get under the paint and it will begin to peel over time. With the rock chips all over it makes it hard to just out right warranty the paint work from normal wear and tear.
Thanks"

I gave Brice the phone number to the shop that looked at it and I'm getting two conflicting statements. Brice it telling me that the shop said it is because of rock chips and the shop says no, its pre-painting procedures, that all the rock chips (if there is any) brought light to the fact that it wasn't painted very well.
After that he sends me another email on 8/4 saying

"Michael

Yes I talked with Robby, I talked to him last week I wanted to put some thought into the situation and talk to a few different people about that matter.
From what Robby and myself had discussed that paint in its current state is not good and is peeling. I asked him his personal opinion on why this would be happening and he told me it could be any number of things. Anything from rock chips to bug chips. I questioned him on his thought if he thought it could be an error in the paint process, his response was it is possible but no way for sure to tell.

After talking to another group painter (not the company that painted yours) I asked them what they had thought about the situation. Given the exp. of the company and the person that painted this they doubted that it was an error of improper procedures. The debris from various road conditions could have caused a few slight nicks in the paint and once there is a break in the paint and it begins to chip and be exposed, moisture and water get in there and the paint finish just falls apart.

I then also reached out to a few of his customers and I have used him as well for my RX-8 paint job and there were no issues of this type arising. This where it becomes difficult for me to believe and logically say that it was the painters fault.
I talked with the painter about the situation and he feels bad as well as I do about it as this whole ordeal has been a bit much. He has offered to repaint it as he still has additional paint because he paints that paint code for Mazda regularly and will re do the work even though he knows it wasn't an at fault incident.

The biggest issue and hurdle currently is that you are in TX and he is in Orlando so shipping the bumper back and forth is not a very conceivable and cost effective solution.

From the price quote that your local painter quoted it would not be too much cheaper when having to factor in shipping costs.
So as it stands my current stance on the matter of paying the local in TX to repaint it is a no, due to it being wear and tear on the part and defect or painters error."

On 8/21 I emailed him
"Brice,

I went and talked to Robby after I received this email and what I understood him to say was that the bugs or rocks were the reason that the faulty paint job was discovered. There is no way (if painted correctly) that my bumper should just be flaking paint. Even in area's not usually susceptible to rock or bug damage it is flaking.

I have talked to 2 other shops in town, the local Mazda dealership, my friend who has an RX8 and has painted 2 of his own cars, and my father who has been a GM for a few car dealerships for the last 18 years and they all keep telling me that it sounds like a faulty paint job, not wear and tear and this should not be happening. Whether its the paint, pre-paint procedures or anything else, it should not be flaking at the rate it is.

I don't know if Robby ever sent you the pictures that he took when I took it to the shop, if not let me know. They are a lot better than the ones that I sent you and really show off the amount of paint that I am having a problem with. When I took my car into the shop he said that if he had painted this bumper, there is no way this would be happening with a paint job that is only 8 months old, and if it did he would fix it because that would be an error on his shop.

I know that if I was in Orlando that it would be cheaper for you to fix this, but when I agreed to take the damaged bumper it was with your guarantee of a 1 year warranty and when you offered this you knew I lived in Texas. I'm sorry if this is coming across angry but I did spend quite a bit of money and time working with you to get this bumper. I am not trying to get something for free, I'm just trying to get what I paid for. What can we do to get this taken care of?
Mike"

I have yet to hear a response. I feel like I paid $1600 bucks for a broken bumper with a crappy paint job. This is not what I had in mind when I purchased this. He kept promising me to hook me up because I am working with him. I understand that his company is a smaller company and I was just trying to help him out while getting what I paid for. I feel like this whole time I have been put on the back burner, he hasn't tried to make things right, I have had to bug him all the time to communicate with me. I don't know what to do.

Any ideas?

Basically......

Fedex's fault it came broken....Although sounds like it could have been packaged better

Should Have been insured.....Makes it Brices problem :(

If it was me he would have sent me another new one and that would have been that....

What to do now......Kinda difficult..cause you agreed to have it repaired.....shouldn't be flaking off...no way And if it is done properly...the rock chips will not cause it to do that....

Although you have a warranty from Brice..it's only as good as his word...so you need to work on him :)

Bannobre,

I completely understand what you are saying. I was trusting in him to do the right thing. I had read a bunch of positive reviews from him and was hoping to get the same experience. When it came the first time, Brice made no offer to get me a knew one. It really sounded like its either work with me or you're stuck with the broken one. I tend to give people the benefit of the doubt, but sometimes it doesn't work out in my favor.


Here are some updated pic's of the bumper as of today.

Wow..that's definitely flaking off bad.....

Brice...step up man ..

Michael,
If you notice that these pics are a lot better than the previous ones you sent I find the below picture very interesting and here is why:

Attachment 253598


If you look at all the pics and compare the above one do you not find it weird that there is a prevalence of small damage in that area and not consistent through out the whole bumper?

You also noted damage right below the headlight which is a small section compared to that main part on the bottom of the bumper. Notice the differences?

Something has to cause this to happen. Paint just doesn't fall of the car. The simple fact of the matter is rock chips or road debris damaged this bumper then once it rains moisture gets under the paint and lifts it up and flakes off causing the small sections to get larger. Over time that is just going to get worse.

I have been silent because I sympathize for the situation but I have to draw the line on paying this out of pocket.

It's chipping between the layer of new paint..and the OEM finish..

I have a badly pitted OEM bumper from ton's of track days and lots of highway miles..and there is NO flaking of paint.....

Come on......

My drive to work is 6 miles each way. All highway miles. No road repairs have taken place, i never drive on back roads with rocks. I have driven to out of town maybe a handfull of times. 6 months and this bumper is all messed up?

When I lived in California I drove 300 miles a week to see my fiance plus my normal commute to work. Put almost 40K miles on my car in 1.5 miles - That bumper looked new compaired to this one.

That small damage is consistant through almost the whole bumper, small holes peeling from almost everywhere, it may not be to that extent as the lower and middle half of the bumper but it's happening every where.

Did you ever get the pictures from the shop? They took a lot of really good ones -

*1.5 years not miles

Negative those pics are better than what you sent to us before I sent them to the painter again and I am also asking a third party for their thoughts.

here we go again ... Race Roots sucks... i will never buy from him after he admitted working with the most wanted man in the rx8 club

Let me first state that I am NOT a professional painter, I am a public school teacher and auto enthusiast, however I have painted multiple cars, trucks, and motorcycles including several of my own. I've also painted on multiple mediums and in different non automotive projects, including recently having painted Texas's largest MMA cage.

I have seen and, more importantly, felt the areas on Mike's car that are peeling. The areas where the paint has peeled are completely smooth. Running your fingers over the areas where there is no paint it doesn't feel like primer or paint at all. It feels like glass. Looking at the areas and the flakes it appears as if there was absolutely no primer whatsoever and that a layer of single stage paint was sprayed directly on the fiberglass. There doesn't appear to be any attempt to etch the surface at all prior to painting.
Also it is readily evident when you are able to see the bumper in person that the paint is flaking off, not being chipped. In the course of inspecting the bumper I inadvertently knocked large pieces of paint off the bumper just by running my hands across it.
I am also going to question the explanation of rain causing the paint to flake. This explanation holds no water (pun intended). Paint does not simply rest on a surface. It adheres to it. Adhere as in adhesion as in glue-like. Anyone who has a cursory knowledge of paint can tell you that it gets sticky when it dries. This stickiness allows it to physically and chemically bond to the material underneath, therefore there should be no space for water to get between the paint and the surface material. If this is the case then the paint was never properly adhered to begin with. For example, I have a chip in the hood of my 1969 C/10. Its been there for nearly 6 years because I haven't had time or resources to repaint it. The paint around the chip has NOT begun flaking off. The area where there is exposed metal has begun to rust but the surrounding area is not affected. Will the paint eventually flake? Yes. The metal will continue to rust, destroying the adhesion between the paint and metal, pushing the paint up and away, however in 6 years this has not occurred. Therefore I question how, in six months, a bumper that is made of fiberglass which does not rust has begun to release the paint if it was painted properly to begin with.

My opinion is that it was obviously not painted correctly to begin with.

Please spare me your cracker jack thoughts...I am not going to argue this one.



Michael I have called in a Favor with a Dupont representative to inspect the car and review the damage. I want a third party review from a professional company who knows more than the local paint shops. I want to know if it is wear and tear, poor paint job, or if there was a defect in the original primer.

There are 2 locations to bring the car in to inspect the damage. Houston or Dallas.

Let me know which and I will arrange an appointment for you to go in at your convenience.

Houston or Dallas? I hope he is just from there and doesn't have to drive to Houston or Dallas from College Station.

Just stating my opinion. I'm not trying to argue with you or flame you (I don't even think I mentioned you), no need to get upset about it. I just want to see this made right for everyone.

Brice,

Well both are pretty far from where I live, but I want this finalized. I'm pretty apprehensive to go to a shop you have set up, feel better with a spot that is neutral, but I'll play ball. If they do say that it is a painting issue and not wear and tear what is our next step? I ask, because Houston is 2 hours from me and Dallas is 3. I don't want to drive to either spot and hear its a painting issue and then you still have to mull over what to do. Can I go to the local shop that I have gone to before? Or am I going to have to drop my car off in Houston? I don't want to be that far away- I hope you can understand. I have Tuesday and Thursday off of next week, but Tuesday would be the best.

I appreciate you opening up communications and helping me get to the bottom of this. I wish this could have happened via email but I never got a response, and yes I know you said my first pictures were not that great, but I'm not a painter and didn't know exactly what you would need to see. If you asked for more I would have gotten more, and I'm also sorry that the shop's email never got to you.

Not that I fully trust wiki posts but here is a post about Car Paint Peeling and in the only two scenarios it has it blames the paint -

http://www.autotropolis.com/wiki/ind..._Paint_Peeling

But, I'm sure there are other sites out there that say otherwise, i just want an open mind on the subject.

So what happened?

Well,

I have been offered to send it back to Brice so he can have it repainted by the guy who originally painted it. I'd have to pay for shipping to him, but they would pay for it to get sent back to me. Only problem is I have no other car and no other bumper to put on my car in the mean time.

I do appreciate the offer, and if I can wrangle up a friends car for a month I might do that, but I don't know.

There was a guy selling am oem front bumper in TX in the FS section maybe a fellow member can let you borrow one for a bit.

^ Wow just Wow....:confused:

wow.... brices screws over another another member....

where are all the rr fanbois coming to his defense?




oh wait.... hey brice try this defense:
"um your paint is peeling because you washed your car too many times and didn't use the appropriate type of car wash as described in the warranty paperwork that came with your bumper"

Who are you again?

All of this crap came from poor packaging..and failing to purchase shipping insurance for the package

We all need to remember when trying to save a few bucks...especially on big easily broken items..that the insurance is mandatory...and it costs the shipper and the buyer money :)

Don't know who dropped the ball here..but we should all learn from this......Buy the Insurance :)

The claim was denied because Fedex has a requirement of 6 inches of padding all around the product of some sort for it to be approved. If you have ever seen the box that mazda ships it out in it is a tight squeeze on the corner tabs.

How does Mazda ship it? I can't see them sending it anywhere without insured shipping :)

Still don't see how this is in any way, shape, or form the clients fault...or problem

From my way of thinking...... correct way to have dealt with this is to replace it with another new one..and to have sold the freight damaged one to someone for a reduced price...

But what do I know :)

LOL that's the problem right there.

For the 90% of you that get your parts from RR without any problems, be happy. I'm sure it "came fast and with great customer service"

For the other 10%, you're shit outta luck. I hope you have a strong aversion to refunds, because this guy will never give you one, and it seems like even a full " store credit" is rare. Everything I've read is always just furious attempts to pacify the customer with half-ass promises and fixes, like in Mikey's case here. Suggesting that a customer borrow some forum member's extra bumper? LOL...

I swear to god how long does it take people to figure this out about this guy???

agreed

If the person at fault is the one who painted it, he or she should not have you spend your money to send it back. The painter should, either, pay for the shipping or pay for a local shop to repair the bumper. But then again, that's what a good shop would do.

Best of luck with your situation.

did nt the costumer shipped the bumper paying the first time when he saw the damage to gettit fix, and now he want to shipped a second time the contumer payin for that again , ..come on RR i will never buy shit from u ....period

Yeah, the usual suspects want to call the voice of reason fanbois, but think it's ok to kelp piling on their negativity. Classic h8r hypocrites. I don't know any vendor that would offer to pay shipping on a large item like this, let alone split it. I'm neither for or against the vendor, just sayin' .....

Oh My.... well I can say this, If a restaurant failed numerous Health Inspections but was allowed to stay open would you still eat there? No

Any other vendor would have

1. shipped a replacement with a return shipping label
2. paid a local shop to repair the item

Any other vendor? The way you guys exaggerate you don't need any fanbois to shoot holes in your preposterous assertions. That thing costs several hundred dollars to ship each way and the only vendor I can think of that would cover it would be the one who charges more than MSRP.

I work for a damn reputable company and the only way we'd cover something like that was if you were a longstanding customer who had spent millions of dollars on our products, and even then maybe not depending on the owners mood.

:spank::puke::crazy::bootyshak:cussing::bottom: :whipping: :nopity::nono:

so by what you are saying team.... RR doesnt stand by his warranty unless you are a long term customer who spends a lot with him?

is it really too much to ask for the vendor to stand behind the product he sells?

.......

Posts containing Personal Attacks have been removed. The title of this thread is RaceRoots Feedback. Lets keep posts about that and not about each other.

I stand by the warranty, I wanted to be entirely sure who was at fault. Whether it be the painter or the customer or even Mazda for their primer. Unfortunately lately too many customers have been dishonest and try to take advantage of us hence my lack of believe in customers as of late.

The bumper will be repainted and returned when the customer is ready to send it in.

Also want to note you live in your own world with your comparisons of what you expect from Manufacturers.

Here is an excerpt from Summit Racing:

We do not require an RGA number for parts still covered under the manufacturer's warranty. Make sure you include your return slip or a copy of your invoice and provide us clear directions on how you would like your return handled. Ship it back prepaid UPS or through the post office and Summit Racing will handle the rest.

This is common for all returns warranty related or not, the buyer will have to pay return shipping.

Just recently my Black and decker Toaster oven broke and was only 6 months old. Called in for warranty and said they would take care of it. I was however responsible to send the old one back in at my own cost.

Brice: This isn't really a warranty issue...so don't make it into one....

It was a freight damage claim that was un-insured for whatever reason..and the customer got a broken bumper that wasn't properly repaired (that from my way of thinking wouldn't have been accepted in the first place)

A warranty issue would be if the paint was peeling on an otherwise untouched bumper....and then it would be Mazda that would be dealing with it

If that is your business model so be it. I am talking about VENDORS not manufacturers. I purchased a set of rotors from rotorpros with painted hats. When they arrived they obviously packed them before the paint cured and all of them had the paint stuck to the packaging and it came off the rotors. I contacted them and sent them pics. They sent me a new set with a prepaid return lablel to send them back the first set. Now that was customer service. I would buy from them again. I purchased Rear Aero Flares from a company on the east coast in BB and when they arrived they were NG. I contacted the company and they sent be the correct color also with a return shipping label for the incorrect set. I understand what you are saying about manafacture warranty but this was not a factory defect just a poor paint job and poor packaging of the item. For what it would cost YOU to send the bumper back to him after it is repainted, you could just salvage this mess by having him go to at least 2 local shops and send you estimates then send him payment for the lower one. Case closed and both sides are satisfied. Instead you go with this Ship it to me I will have it fixed and ship it back. What if it gets damaged in shipping again? And then to tell him to ask to borrow someones bumper during this process which could last up to a month. Come on that makes no sense at all...

And as for you toaster oven, I would have taken it back to the store I bought it from and got a new one....

....

Man I wish I could bump his other bad guy thread..... This vendor truly is a piece of work

Actually it is if you re-read.

Bumper broke in intial shipment and had a crack. ( this was originally pre-painted from Mazda) The Crack went into the bumper told the customer I can have it fixed I did. It was reinforced and re-painted.

Sent it back out, he was concerned about doing this whole process and I extended him a 1 year warranty on the work of the bumper and here we are today.

So tell me how this isn't a warranty issue because he had the bumper for 6 months and was content until it started peeling.


I am not rebutting your response at all but want to make a few notes:


Rotor Pro's is a manufacturer.

Had this been the first go around I would have just had it painted over there to eliminate all this mess. BUT it had been back and forth twice already since a local company that I use for paint and repair work is responsible for the work I am holding them accountable since I have gotten them in agreement to fix the bumper.

As for the Toaster oven most stores will not take anything back irregardless past 90 days.

In case you didn't know 6 months is 180 days which is well past most stores return timeline.

Also a few people have made comments about how I run things, which they are entitled to question. If you think you have the perfect model for running a business I encourage you to do so in this community and economy. Look forward to see how it goes and I want to see how well or bad you do.

I get it there are a few out there that hate me, thats great I don't care. In the end some that have made bad comments about me before STILL buy from me which at times I want to tell them off but I don't.

I don't care either way, I try my best with what I have and what I can to persevere and succeed. If I make mistakes I will do my best to make it right.

Yet again Look for another product release the end of this month (Exhaust System) that will blow out competitors prices, maintain stock and make everyone happy.

This thread is well beaten to hell about this subject, lets move on.

^+1
I guess some of you would consider me lucky, but I have purchased several things from RR and never had an issue with Brice. He has gone overboard to assist the one time I did have an issue (which was noticed immediately after receiving the item), and happily donated items to our local carshow. I think some people just have unreal expectations of what customer service should be. I realize this is just my opinion, but I will be happy to continue purchasing from RR.

Not sure where the post went about people here complaining yet still ordering shit from you but I can assume that was directed at me, do to the recent item you shipped to my place.

That item was ordered by another member who ordered from you and had it shipped to me for safe keeping until he gets back from the sand. I would never order anything from Race Roots.