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NEGATIVE: Tyblat/Roy Skiles/Rotary Source
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In this thread user Tyblat advertised a catalytic converter. https://www.rx8club.com/rx-8-parts-s...verter-261929/
As you can see in his FS thread there is a pic of the front-side cat honeycomb brick inside showing it to be in perfect condition. I bought the cat. I sent the paypal payment to rotarysource@gmail.com and the payment shows as having gone to "Rotary Source". IT was shipped from Roy Skiles in Ocoee, FL. IT was shipped quickly but upon receipt I found that the cat brick was actually broken on the front end. This is a sign of impending failure. This is what happens to a cat brick just before it breaks apart and fails. The cat brick is actually divided in half, with an open area in the middle where the oxygen sensor goes. I also inspected the rear half of the cat brick through the open oxygen sensor hole (you cant see the back half of the brick through the rear pipe opening). Note that Tyblat himself had removed the sensor on his end so he could have seen this as well. It is blatantly obvious and all you need is a flashlight or a sunny day to see the issue with the brick inside being destroyed. It is kind of hard to get a camera lens *and* good lighting inside there at the same time so it is difficult to get good pics, but it is *obvious* when looking inside with your eyes. |
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Just for reference, I grabbed another good cat that I had on the shelf and took the same picture through the o2 sensor hole. This is what you *should* see inside the hole if the cat brick were good (this is a pic of A GOOD CAT, not the cat Tyblat sent).
There was cat material inside the box that had come out of the *rear* end of the pipe. When notified of this Tyblat claimed that this was all "shipping damage". But the box had almost zero damage and the cat pipe itself showed no signs of a significant impact. There was a small hole torn in one end by the metal "finger" protruding out from the rear end of the cat pipe. He claimed that he filed an insurance claim with the shipper for the "shipping damage". I feel this was not only a way to dodge responsibility for the blatantly melted cat brick that he did not inspect, but borderline fraudulent to force the shipping carrier to be responsible for it. I have never been contacted by the shipper to inspect the package or the cat pipe, nor seen any actual proof of any such claim being filed. Tyblat's official response to this is to say that it's my fault for not asking for more pictures of the rest of the cat brick before I purchased. He refuses to even respond to inquiries as to whether he looked inside the sensor hole when he removed it, and he refuses entirely to address the question of how a cat brick could become melted during shipping. |
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I realize the pics of the melted brick through the sensor hole are hard to see. Since this cat is obviously destroyed and can never be used on a car (despite Tyblat's insistence otherwise) all it is good for at this point is to gut out. But I still wanted to be able to PROVE that the cat brick was melted. IF I just punched the thing out wildly, both halves of the brick would be damaged and I could not demonstrate that it was melted FIRST.
So I came up with a way to bust and remove the front brick without touching the rear brick at all. It's a long screwdriver with vise grips clamped on in such a way to prevent the tip from penetrating deep enough to touch the remainder of the rear brick half. That way it will be left alone for inspection. Here are the chunks of the FRONT cat brick that came out. The front "face" of the bricks are on the floor. What you see are the melted rear ends of the brick. Obviously this is not damage from me punching out the brick and just further supports that this cat brick was melted when he sold it. Once the FRONT HALF of the brick was removed, you can see the view of the REAR HALF of the brick, obviously completely melted and mostly missing. This is a better view of what could be obviously seen through the oxygen sensor hole. IT has now been over 3 weeks since I received the melted cat and brought the issue to his attention. The last communication I received from him was approximately 1 week ago claiming that he might offer me a "partial refund once the draft clears". I have sent two more inquiries since then and now he has stopped responding completely. At this point I have no reason to believe that any partial or full refund is forthcoming so I am going to be forced to do a paypal claim and/or a credit card chargeback. I filed the paypal claim yesterday and he has not responded to that, either. |
Yeah I mean just shaking it and listening would have told you if this was bad already. That looks like normal cat failure to me. Rough shipping could surely finish off an already damaged cat but I don't think that is the case here. Hopefully he does the right thing, based on my dealings with him here, he seems like a stand up guy.
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Originally Posted by Tyblat in response to the paypal dispute
As we have discussed on the rx8 club, and as you can see in my photos on my for sale ad,The catalyst has a very good brick in my photo, and the one you are claiming to show you received is destroyed. There was never any warranty expressed or implied on my forum posting, and your name "rotary resurrection" had only one post on my for sale thread, was agreeing to take it for a price you yourself named sir, and which I accepted. It was and is your responsibility as a buyer to address any potential concerns you had with me prior to completing the purchase. You did not. You entered into an agreement with me for the cat based on the pictures of it i had listed, and sent payment accordingly.Again, I will restate, there was never any warranty expressed, or implied, and by you sending payment with no questions asked, I have no reason to assume otherwise that you were satisfied with the product for sale. Your request for a refund of that value is what I believe to be ridiculous and unwarranted. I also raise your quote" When I sent the paypal payment for the cat pipe I stated that the payment was for "04-08 mazda rx8 catalytic converter midpipe with good honeycomb brick inside". " You never once raised any question on the forums prior to receiving this catalytic converter, You saw the picture and sent payment almost immediately. That is essentially ludicrous what you are trying to claim, as one there was no warranty expressed or implied, and two, that is comparable to me messaging you about an item you have for sale, not asking a single question, offering and sending payment and then in the payment description claiming stipulations that I could have asked as a buyer prior to the fact.Your request for that refund is hereby denied. I will work with you, but not to the level of what you are asking, and I consider that generous given the circumstances you are trying to set.
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^What's all this bullshit about a "warranty" warranties come into play when a product doesn't live up to standard after it's been used by the buyer... you didn't even have a chance to use it. It came to you in a damaged state... therefore whether or not a warranty had been given is moot. Misrepresentation of product though...
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I had good luck with PayPal last year when I bought a part that was not usable. The listing said mint condition, and what I received was not mint. PayPal was pretty understanding, and refunded the money including shipping. The seller even had to pay return shipping.
Best of luck to you. Document all communication, don't ever communicate outside of PayPal. They review all of it. |
Originally Posted by BigBadChris
(Post 4762206)
I had good luck with PayPal last year when I bought a part that was not usable. The listing said mint condition, and what I received was not mint. PayPal was pretty understanding, and refunded the money including shipping. The seller even had to pay return shipping.
Best of luck to you. Document all communication, don't ever communicate outside of PayPal. They review all of it. So we will see what they come up with on this one. |
I had full coverage when my purchase was "not as described". Perhaps I just got lucky?
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Originally Posted by BigBadChris
(Post 4762230)
I had full coverage when my purchase was "not as described". Perhaps I just got lucky?
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Originally Posted by RotaryResurrection
(Post 4762112)
It's my fault that he sent me a broken cat. He bears absolutely none of the blame or responsibility.
If I sent someone something that I absolutely knew was in good condition, and they then claimed I sent them something that was defective, I would say they were a @$?*#% liar, and not reply with a bunch of warranty gobbledygook. |
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Originally Posted by RotaryResurrection
(Post 4761940)
In this thread user Tyblat advertised a catalytic converter. https://www.rx8club.com/rx-8-parts-s...verter-261929/
As you can see in his FS thread there is a pic of the front-side cat honeycomb brick inside showing it to be in perfect condition. I bought the cat. I sent the paypal payment to rotarysource@gmail.com and the payment shows as having gone to "Rotary Source". IT was shipped from Roy Skiles in Ocoee, FL. IT was shipped quickly but upon receipt I found that the cat brick was actually broken on the front end. This is a sign of impending failure. This is what happens to a cat brick just before it breaks apart and fails. The cat brick is actually divided in half, with an open area in the middle where the oxygen sensor goes. I also inspected the rear half of the cat brick through the open oxygen sensor hole (you cant see the back half of the brick through the rear pipe opening). Note that Tyblat himself had removed the sensor on his end so he could have seen this as well. It is blatantly obvious and all you need is a flashlight or a sunny day to see the issue with the brick inside being destroyed. It is kind of hard to get a camera lens *and* good lighting inside there at the same time so it is difficult to get good pics, but it is *obvious* when looking inside with your eyes. I'm not getting into a forum war with you, Kevin. Broken on front end? lets see about that, Here are the pictures on my ad: That front catalyst doesn't look bad at all to me. you bought it looking at the pictures I had on the ad. I dont see why this is an issue, I clearly stated in my ad the car ran fine, and didnt choke, and the cat didnt glow. Lets look at the box too, strange, I don't see any catalyst material in there either. Food for thought. |
That's it?
Nobody is asking for a forum war. I'm asking for factual information. No justification for any of the clear and obvious damage seen in my pics? No acknowledgement whatsoever that there is definite damage to the cat brick? Do you want to tell us all whether or not you looked in the hole and saw the melted brick after YOU YOURSELF removed the oxygen sensor? Do you dispute that the cat brick would cause damage to any engine (not to mention fail to pass an emissions test) if installed in a car in it's condition? Would you, after seeing my pics above, install this cat back onto your car and run it long-term as-is? Or do you just want to keep reiterating that this is my problem for failing to ask you for more pics or a better description of the inspection that you should have done on your end before ever listing it for sale? Stay dodging. |
Well, update: paypal found in my favor on the case, I returned the pipe to the seller (lost $16 on the return shipping, but that's better than losing it all I guess) and today paypal refunded me the full $200.
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Well, not so fast I guess. This guy just refuses to accept he did something wrong. It seems Tyblat has appealed the paypal claim again by saying that he received the item back damaged. Well of course he did, by his own claims it arrived damaged to me. So now paypal has once again taken the funds from me. Maybe that chargeback will be forthcoming after all. What a bunch of BS. :wallbash:
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For anyone curious, the paypal dispute was decided in my favor. I'm not going to elaborate, although if Kevin feels the need to drag this out. I'll leave it at that.
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For anyone curious, here is proof that paypal refunded me for the fraudulent sale of the defective cat.
IT is possible/likely that the seller whined enough during his "appeal" that they decided to double-pay and give him his money back as well just to make the issue go away and prevent a chargeback from my end if they had tried to take that money back again. Meaning he now has the midpipe AND the funds from the sale, in addition to the theoretical fraudulent shipping insurance claim he told me he had filed with Fedex. Come to think of it this might have been a very profitable scam for the seller, as he technically was paid for that midpipe by fedex, and by paypal, and he still has it in his physical possession to resell again later. |
Originally Posted by RotaryResurrection
(Post 4766887)
For anyone curious, here is proof that paypal refunded me for the fraudulent sale of the defective cat.
IT is possible/likely that the seller whined enough during his "appeal" that they decided to double-pay and give him his money back as well just to make the issue go away and prevent a chargeback from my end if they had tried to take that money back again. Meaning he now has the midpipe AND the funds from the sale, in addition to the theoretical fraudulent shipping insurance claim he told me he had filed with Fedex. Come to think of it this might have been a very profitable scam for the seller, as he technically was paid for that midpipe by fedex, and by paypal, and he still has it in his physical possession to resell again later. I have the midpipe back, and I won the dispute because you send it back to me DESTROYED. For whatever reason, you decided to completely obliterate it and post it on the forums to try and gain cause. Again, as often as you deal with paypal, you should have been familiar with this whole process. Claiming they might have "double paid" is ridiculous. I've seen and know you get in disputes with buyers/sellers before. You do not have a positive attitude. I was going to issue you a partial refund, but after you deliberately go and destroy the entire catalyst, and send it back, what were you expecting? a full refund, me having a destroyed product, and full money in your pocket? absolutely not. If you want the catalyst back, in the destroyed condition you sent it to me in, i'll send it your way. You claim on your ebay profile you do not leave feedback for buyers, but its clear if you look you do. and when you do, its insulting and demeaning. I would post a photocopy of your printout you include in purchases offering a discount for services if people leave you feedback and notify you of it, but I cant seem to find it at the moment, but If someone else has one on hand, I encourage them to, before I find it. Just because you think you have staying power on the forums does not mean you have the right to accuse me for being a fraudulent seller. I for one have never been sued over providing a false product. in fact, i'll link it. "GRAY, GORDON vs. LANDERS, KEVIN " (SC-2008-00285) | On Demand Court Records Don't attempt to damage my reputation because I sent a product that was working on my car, and when you got it you claimed there were problems, I offered you a partial refund, and then you DESTROYED IT and sent it back to me and attempted to come out scott free. I'm sorry kevin, it doesnt work that way. |
OK...this is enough " He Said She Said" stuff.
We get it...you 2 don't like each other...both of you has there opinion and it isn't likely to change by continuing this thread If either of you has pertinent information on this PM me ...otherwise this thread is closed |
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